Genuinely, we love us some Viggo Mortensen. That's why this week's episode is the 2007 David Cronenberg film: Eastern Promises. This one has one of the most infamous steam room scenes your eyes will ever absorb. It's great, AND it's a Christmas movie!
Eastern Promises (2007), is our very first David Cronenberg film! And the indent that Ryan made for this is truly spectacular. He’s really outdone himself with this one. We’ve been waiting to review this film for a long time, as it is famously infamous, and also we wanted to wait because it is, of course, a Christmas movie. Some may argue, more Christmas-y than Die Hard (1988). Grab a bottle of Russian vodka, à la Harvey Keitel in Bad Lieutenant (1992), and swig away while you enjoy this treasure.
We love you, Viggo.
It’s streaming on Starz, if you subscribe to that channel (at least as of 11/29/2021)! Who actually subscribes to Starz? Is it any good?
00:00.000 --> 00:07.190
Um, fireworks going off. You hear that? It's either fireworks or it's cannons.
00:07.190 --> 00:11.030
I thought maybe it was just like a garbage bin getting rolled down the street.
00:11.030 --> 00:11.970
You thought so?
00:12.080 --> 00:12.498
Yeah.
00:12.584 --> 00:14.886
Okay, well, he was getting all worked up about it.
00:14.948 --> 00:37.590
Oh, sorry, dog. Um, well, hello there. Welcome to On the Bitte, the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura, and I'm joined by my co host, Ryan.
00:37.590 --> 00:38.278
Hello.
00:38.424 --> 00:40.858
Hey, Ryan. I am or no.
00:40.884 --> 00:45.386
Ours, I should say it. Hoo Hoo.
00:45.518 --> 00:50.882
I don't think I can do this. We're not going to do this entire episode in a Russian accent.
00:51.026 --> 00:52.050
Okay.
00:52.050 --> 00:52.990
All right, you do it.
00:53.040 --> 00:58.480
I can try.
00:58.480 --> 01:02.378
Uh, do you want to have a Russian name? Do you want to make up a Russian name for you?
01:02.404 --> 01:06.882
No. I think we're going to be very careful about what we see in this podcast episode.
01:06.966 --> 01:07.394
Okay.
01:07.492 --> 01:12.790
Just purely because Russian gangsters are fucking scary.
01:12.790 --> 01:35.994
Yeah, that's true. And the Russian gangsters that we're going to be talking about today are in the 2007 drama Gangsterfilm Eastern Promises, starring Viggo Mortensen, Naomi Watts, Vincent Cassel. And there's other people in this movie, too, but, uh, it was directed by David Cronenberg.
01:36.042 --> 01:42.070
Yes. You missed out a slashed out Christmas movie.
01:42.070 --> 01:51.930
My God. Yeah. Okay, let me start again, because I can hear the sleigh bells like it's the Christmas drama gangster films.
01:51.990 --> 02:03.890
Yes. Like a vigor pretended he was Santa. Uh, but he was playing the character he's playing in Eastern Promises. It's a cigarette out on his tongue and starts handing out presents to all the little children.
02:04.000 --> 02:08.234
Yeah. And the presents are little tips of gangster fingers, probably.
02:08.332 --> 02:14.202
Yeah. Uh, what is not Christmassy more than a gangster snipping off a dead man's fingers?
02:14.286 --> 02:17.558
Yeah. I mean, it really warms my heart when I see that.
02:17.644 --> 02:19.506
Yeah. Uh, and all the vodka.
02:19.698 --> 02:22.734
All of the straight vodka.
02:22.842 --> 02:24.010
Yeah.
02:24.010 --> 02:25.274
Right out of the bottle. Yeah.
02:25.312 --> 02:38.646
No one mixes vodka just like Harvey Caitille. Yeah, pretty much. Why dilute it all and have to go to the toilet twice as many times where you can just get straight to the methanol and just drink it all in one go and it gets to your destination quicker.
02:38.718 --> 02:40.686
Yeah. Especially when it's during the holidays.
02:40.758 --> 02:56.310
Yes. You really want to just drive it right when it gets to the end of the year, you really want to just drive yourself into a small oblivion just so you could. Anyway, David Croenberg. Right.
02:56.480 --> 02:57.214
Totally.
02:57.322 --> 03:04.850
So, uh, not much of a practitioner when it comes to making other Christmas movies. I don't know if this is his only Christmas film.
03:04.850 --> 03:11.210
I mean, it's a whole hot one.
03:11.210 --> 03:22.722
Yes. Well, certainly it's, uh, not made a bodyhore Christmas movie, that's for sure. I'd be interested to see that Eastern Promises is only just set during Christmas. I don't know.
03:22.736 --> 03:25.306
It just gives us more Christmas Eve than diehard.
03:25.498 --> 03:30.110
Pretty much. It's up there. It's up there. If you're diehard it's up. Um, there with your home alone.
03:30.110 --> 03:33.222
Yeah. Feel good movie of the year.
03:33.296 --> 03:48.682
Yes. And it's non disputable. It's not like, uh, you die hard haters out there who are like, it's got nothing to do with Christmas. It's like, well, okay then that's fine. Just living your own little private bubble.
03:48.766 --> 03:50.754
Yeah. This one's not a question, it's a fact.
03:50.852 --> 03:57.226
Yeah, well, that's what we're here for. We're not here to beg questions, we're here to decipher facts.
03:57.298 --> 03:57.570
Yeah.
03:57.620 --> 05:49.250
Provide answers, spell them out into your lugs. Anyway, so David Cronenberg, right? So David Cronenberg. I've read a lot about David Cronenberg over the years. He's a firm favorite filmmaker of mine. I think I quite like him just purely because he has quite a unique voice and I feel like his films are incredibly unique. And I don't like to Bandy about the idea of the auto or anything like that because I kind of feel like it's an antiquate term now because there's not just one person responsible for the making of the film. There's crews and loads of people that need to be respected for the same thing. But yeah, uh, if you want to Bandy that thing about, he would definitely be referred to as that kind of filmmaker, just purely because of the uniques of his work. And he's a Canadian filmmaker. He's cited as one of the principal originators of the idea of body horror. Um, and by body horror, it's mainly describing a, uh, very particular kind of horror in which it's very transformative. So the body goes through changes, mostly horrific, that require it feels a lot more tangible and real. That kind of like has this sort of inner eerie cringy quality about it that I kind of feel like you don't really get. I mean, if you want to just kind of talk a bit. Body horror in general. Fly is probably a very good example of that. The idea Tetsuo, uh, the Shinya sukamoto movie is very much a body horror film as well, where principal characters changing and morphing into something else. Kafka esque.
05:49.250 --> 05:50.630
Very wet.
05:50.630 --> 05:57.510
Yeah. Wet, wet. Oily drippy. Bloody gory.
05:57.510 --> 05:57.946
Yeah.
05:58.008 --> 06:10.294
Painful, you know, but, uh, yeah, no, I think that's something I've quite admired about his stuff. And certainly I think body horror just as a genre I find quite interesting.
06:10.392 --> 06:14.398
Anyway, what are some of his, like, body horror films that he's done?
06:14.484 --> 07:07.950
I mean, Shivers is one. Rabbit is one, the uh, Brood is one. Scanners, I would definitely say is one, uh, uh, video drum. The Fly is probably the best example. Um, and I guess to like a lesser degree, you have elements of like Crash, but it's more that, uh, in Crash, it's not so much it's a body horror experience, but it's kind of more like people are blending together. This idea of broken bits of metal kind of coming together, juxtaposed against like there's this seed of masochocistic traits to these characters and things. So that's kind of more implied as opposed to being kind of directly woven into that. But I think The Fly is definitely probably, uh, the best example of that. It's the most clear cut example, I would say.
07:07.950 --> 07:10.646
That's a romance. Yeah. Absolutely foul.
07:10.778 --> 07:13.442
Yeah. It's horrible. It's horrible.
07:13.526 --> 07:19.186
I've only actually seen like a few of those, so that's kind of cool. That's something to look forward to.
07:19.248 --> 07:45.038
Yeah. So I mean, I would say that he's had a very career. And I'd say because of the way that he focuses on certain things in his films, his films can be quite polarizing. I would say straight up and honestly that he's definitely an adult filmmaker. You're not going into his work feeling like you're going to be all warm and cuddled up to what he's going to be depicting.
07:45.134 --> 07:45.430
Right.
07:45.480 --> 08:14.134
Most of the time he's dealing with some quite heavy shit. So this will be the longest filmography that I'm going to be spurting out here because we're covering you some promises. This guy has been making shit since 1969, so let's get started. So in 69, 69, he made stereo. In 1970, he made Crimes of the Future. Now he is remaking Crimes of the Future. It's a short film. Um, he is remaking Crimes of the Future for 2022.
08:14.172 --> 08:14.626
Cool.
08:14.748 --> 08:23.690
Very interesting. Shivers. In 1975, I would probably say Shivers is his directorial debut because the other two films were short films.
08:23.750 --> 08:24.382
All right.
08:24.516 --> 08:57.158
But this guy has been able to profit from the Canadian Film Council, um, and get his funding through that. So that's kind of where he's been able to get his funding in order to kind of more explore these body horror ideas. In 1977, he makes Rabid. In 1979, he makes Fast Company. In 79, again, he makes The Brood. Now, in 1981, he makes Scanners. And I would say this is more of his breakthrough film, Scanners. Scanners are very popular and very. I, uh, think it's probably one of his most popular films. Scanners.
08:57.194 --> 08:59.242
I've definitely seen that and I like it.
08:59.316 --> 09:05.558
Yeah. But, um, again, he kind of tops it off in 1983 when he makes Video Drum.
09:05.594 --> 09:06.010
Hell, yeah.
09:06.060 --> 09:08.490
And Video Drum is a very unique film.
09:08.490 --> 09:09.562
Video Drum is awesome.
09:09.636 --> 09:18.390
Yeah. In 1983 makes The Dead Zone. Now The Dead Zone has Christopher Walton in it. Yeah, I remember that movie being really cool.
09:18.390 --> 09:20.186
Is that a Stephen King written?
09:20.318 --> 09:33.962
Yeah, I think it's a Stephen King thing, but yeah, he's got plenty of adaptations and stuff in his work. Now, in 1986, I would say that his most commercial hit. And that's The Fly. That's the Jeff Goldblum. The Fly.
09:34.046 --> 09:34.666
Oh, I know.
09:34.728 --> 09:46.290
Yeah. And that films. Yeah, that films a commercial success. Huge. Now slightly different to that. We have Dead Ringers in 1988, which I think is a very clever film.
09:46.290 --> 09:54.118
Yeah. You liked that film, but I keep asking you to watch it and you're like, I'm not in the mood yeah. I got to be in the right mindset to watch it.
09:54.204 --> 09:54.562
Yeah.
09:54.636 --> 09:56.410
I never seen it. I really want to watch it.
09:56.460 --> 10:01.220
Jeremy Irons playing himself and he's twin.
10:01.220 --> 10:02.386
Um, don't spoil it.
10:02.508 --> 10:11.962
Yeah. Gynecologist it's on prime. Yes. What you find with Cronenberg is he does have quite a lot of sexual themes running through running through his work.
10:12.036 --> 10:14.066
And you know how I feel about sexual themes.
10:14.198 --> 10:15.806
This stuff is kind of sexy.
10:15.938 --> 10:16.534
I love them.
10:16.572 --> 10:34.746
Yeah, it's sexy. But they're sexual themes. I wouldn't say they're sexy. There's also the body horror stuff as well. Well, that's fine. After Dead Ringers, we have Naked Lunch. In 91 and 93, we have Butterfly. And now in 96, we have Crash.
10:34.878 --> 10:35.354
Yeah.
10:35.452 --> 10:58.758
Which I would say Crash is a pinnacle of his work, but certainly it's like a distillation of a lot of the things that he's been exploring as a filmmaker. And I think Kraft just fucking nails it. Um, in 2099, he makes existence very strange sort of film. Very weird. I'm very kind of like they're like bone knives or something. Like a bone gun.
10:58.854 --> 10:59.514
Bone gun.
10:59.562 --> 11:00.474
It's a bone gun.
11:00.522 --> 11:02.006
Wow. I haven't seen that.
11:02.068 --> 11:19.586
And it kind of since it came out. It kind of brings in some virtual reality elements as well, because they have the all kind of like Mucus, uh, with the Matrix where they plug themselves in.
11:19.648 --> 11:19.946
Yes.
11:20.008 --> 11:25.554
And they plug themselves in through this baby apparatus thing. They pull the tubes out of its belly.
11:25.602 --> 11:37.262
Oh, my gosh, I remember plug into the back of their neck. Can we put that on? I want to put that on my VR, like a video game playlist. Or it should already be on your VR playlist watch list.
11:37.456 --> 11:45.506
I think I maybe already put it on with Disclosure. Yes. I've always put on. So I have three more films to go.
11:45.568 --> 11:46.010
Okay.
11:46.120 --> 11:52.850
And obviously when we get these promises, that's where we kind of start. There's no Cosmopolis or any of that kind of the later stuff.
11:52.900 --> 11:53.330
Later.
11:53.440 --> 12:35.742
Yeah. So after existence, there's Spider in 2002, now one of my favorites. And I really like this movie is a History of Violence in 2005, which is technically the prelude to what Eastern Promises is obviously going to be. And then Eastern Promises comes out in 2007. So we'd say that I think they kind of see History of Violence need some Promises kind of married to each other, just purely because they've got Vigo in the, uh, leading role. Unfortunately, a lot of his films we will not be covering because they just don't really have explicit portrayals of the male. Not me and them.
12:35.876 --> 12:50.602
Some of them do. When you go a little bit later, Cosmopolis does, uh, I know it's not my favorite either. It's not my favorite either, but it is a potential for the podcast.
12:50.746 --> 12:56.062
But either way, we are here for Eastern Promises, Crone and Burst Christmas movie.
12:56.206 --> 13:26.494
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, if I may say so. One of my all time top favorite scenes is pretty good today. And, uh, I'm talking just in film in general. Yeah. Okay. When I think about it, I love that scene. It's scary. It's very visceral. It's wet, it's bloody, it's scary. Um, and it's vulnerable. It's got all the things and making Viggo Mortensen.
13:26.542 --> 13:33.006
I'll have some things to say about it, maybe to its detriment, but when we get to it, that's fine. We can get there.
13:33.128 --> 13:42.702
It's something that doesn't leave your mind when you ask someone about, have you seen Eastern Promises? And you go, oh, is it that seen in the bath house? Yeah.
13:42.836 --> 14:19.062
Well, here's my thing. Um, I saw Eastern Promises in the cinema, and that's the only other time other than watching it today for this episode, this is the second time I've seen the movie. Okay, so there were certain things I'd remembered, and there were certain things that I've forgotten. I did not forget about the fucking snippet of the fingers. That was something that all always would have remembered in terms of him getting all naked and stuff in the bathhouse. I guess just because things like that just not really computing my brain if I remember seeing Dick or not. It doesn't really faze me.
14:19.256 --> 14:23.026
Well, even still, it's quite an intense, memorable scene.
14:23.158 --> 14:23.562
Yes.
14:23.636 --> 14:25.242
You don't really see stuff like that.
14:25.316 --> 14:26.310
No, but never, uh.
14:26.360 --> 14:27.234
Seen anything like that.
14:27.272 --> 14:34.770
Yeah, I would say the scene itself is relatively quite brave.
14:34.770 --> 14:36.890
Okay, Laura, from letterboxed.
14:36.950 --> 14:38.534
Oh, from letterbox.
14:38.642 --> 14:39.826
That's where I like to start.
14:39.888 --> 14:45.090
Yeah. It's our, uh, haven of information.
14:45.090 --> 15:00.310
A Russian, uh, teenager living in London dies during childbirth, but leaves clues to a midwife in her Journal that could tie her child to a rape involving a violent, um, Russian mob family.
15:00.310 --> 15:00.782
Right.
15:00.856 --> 15:51.130
My issue with this synopsis is how it seems like the pregnant teenager is the main focus and is specifically intending to leave clues in her Journal for the midwife, which is Naomi Watts, which is not true. It just happens. It's an accident. This young teenager starts hemorrhaging blood while pregnant in a corner shop and gets taken to the hospital in Naomi Watts, who's the midwife there ends up taking care of her. Yeah, um, that's that part. But I feel like maybe there's not much more to the story necessarily, but I think that Naomi, uh, Watts is trying to figure out where the baby belongs.
15:51.130 --> 15:51.638
Yeah.
15:51.724 --> 15:58.554
And it, uh, gets entangled in a Russian mob mhm situation in London.
15:58.662 --> 16:26.226
Thing is, with Naomi Watts'character. Uh, and I guess this is where I have issues. Quite a fair amount of issues, I guess, with, just like, the script and the storytelling. It's just how kind of thin this line ends up being where she decides she's going to delve down this hole just purely because she also comes from a family that has either Russian relatives or Russian descent.
16:26.418 --> 16:27.966
Her father was Russian.
16:28.158 --> 16:48.130
Okay, well, her level of naivety, or certainly the level to which her blinkers stay on for quite a large portion of the movie beggars a lot of belief when certainly she should be well aware of how dangerous these people are.
16:48.130 --> 17:03.822
I try to chalk it up to her having not like a mother's intuition or something or protection over this child, but I think she just feels so bad. Uh, and also she had recently lost a baby.
17:03.966 --> 17:04.598
Yes.
17:04.744 --> 17:17.310
So she's like, all right, I'm going to take care of this kid and taking it upon herself, really? Uh, in an inappropriate manner, first of all. And an irresponsible manner.
17:17.430 --> 17:57.700
Yeah. She doesn't do a very good job of it, but certainly it's not Naomi Watts fault, because I feel like she deals the role relatively competently. I just feel like the Steven Knight's script, the story that he has conjured up. I think there's a lot within the special features and a lot within, like, the feature reps and stuff that we watched on the DVD where they kind of feel like, or at least Chromeber feels like he's wanting to create this quite layered and interesting kind of insight into this quite unknown world.
17:57.700 --> 17:58.150
Mhm.
17:58.150 --> 18:14.470
And I just feel like the story itself gives you those opportunities to do that. It's just so incredibly thin and just a little bit kind of ends up shitting the bed by the time it finishes.
18:14.470 --> 19:22.030
I don't necessarily agree with that, but I also find it odd that the story was written. Script is written. You're making a film, you cast Vigor Mortensen and then Vigo Mortensen ends up doing an insane amount of research into his character that ends up changing the film in a way. Yeah, completely where it was more of a footnote in the script that the tattoos were a thing. It wasn't really explained, but then in the film, it ends up being an absolutely integral part of the characters and their life. And it's just odd to me. I mean, Vigor Mortensen ended up meeting with a Russian mob specialist and discussed with them the tattoos and discussed with them with this person, what kind of tattoos in his station he would have and what they meant and kind of how to execute that. And then Vigo goes to Russia himself. He just goes just to do some research, learn a little bit more Russian because he's very linguistically.
19:22.030 --> 19:23.922
Yeah. He's incredibly well cultured.
19:24.006 --> 19:24.674
So smart.
19:24.712 --> 19:25.838
Yeah. Very smart man.
19:25.924 --> 19:26.562
So smart.
19:26.646 --> 19:27.730
Yeah.
19:27.730 --> 19:35.222
I mean, that changed. And it makes me wonder how lazy the original script was. A little bit.
19:35.296 --> 19:50.270
It kind of makes me feel like, because of the way the film is already a lot of like, if you say that's what he did, then I would have been like, I don't know how interesting the original film would have been without any of that content.
19:50.380 --> 19:56.078
Without Vigo, this film probably wouldn't work very well.
19:56.164 --> 20:16.982
No, there is a thing. It wasn't an alien concept to me, going into this film, that Russian gangsters use tattoos as a way to tell the story of their lives. Like, that's just a thing. But that's not unique, particularly to the Russian mob. That's certainly very key to the Yakuza as well.
20:17.116 --> 20:18.098
All right. Okay.
20:18.244 --> 20:23.558
Whereas basically it's a statue that your level within the organization, basically.
20:23.644 --> 20:24.146
Okay.
20:24.268 --> 20:49.514
And kind of like where you're standing. So it's not alien. It's not just specific purely to the Russian mob life. But I guess the uniqueness I think they're obviously trying to bring to this is that you have a Russian mob contingent based in London, and that's where the focus is.
20:49.612 --> 20:50.590
Right.
20:50.590 --> 21:23.102
Which I think is okay. I think that's relatively quite interesting, but purely because it's set in London and they're dealing with this. This is where we're primarily highlighting and focusing on the human trafficking element of this side of the mob and what they're doing. So obviously the trafficking girls, young girls from, uh, Russia, from Ukraine and bringing them over to the UK, and seemingly this is a problem. This is a real life thing.
21:23.176 --> 21:24.430
Oh, yeah.
21:24.430 --> 21:37.854
But, um, I'm assuming that's why it's called Eastern Promises is that they're trafficking these girls on the basis of being like, you'll have a better life than what you have right now. Of course, if you come over with us to the UK.
21:38.022 --> 21:39.310
Yeah.
21:39.310 --> 21:41.350
That's quite sad.
21:41.350 --> 21:43.302
Oh, it's, um, horrific, horrific, horrific.
21:43.386 --> 22:09.182
And it never really shines away too much from showing you the incredibly dark side to this. I guess that's very much. Again, a hallmark of Kronenberg stuff is incredibly dark and unflinching. Um, and it's incredibly violent. Um, there are some elements of it that are rough at points.
22:09.256 --> 22:24.342
Yeah. And there's times during this film where when I'm watching a movie and something really intense happens, I tend to just cringe and look away. I'm trying to get better at that. But there are some really horrible moments in this film.
22:24.426 --> 22:24.962
Yeah.
22:25.096 --> 22:32.438
And there's, uh, also some really funny points as well that maybe shouldn't have been so funny. But, you know.
22:32.584 --> 22:58.630
Yeah, I think the film begins and I feel like it really handles the tone quite well. And I think one of the main things and this is that I think Vincent Cassell and I think Vigo really fucking sell their partnership together, but also they really sell the idea that there's a hierarchy. And who plays Vincent Cassel's father?
22:58.630 --> 22:59.702
I can get his name.
22:59.776 --> 23:15.738
Yeah. So he plays effectively the mob boss who owns this restaurant. He's the restaurant owner. His, um, role. I think he does a fantastic job of playing a relatively quite understate kind of mob boss. He's terrifying.
23:15.834 --> 23:19.734
Yeah, he's very scary. His name is Armin Mueller Stahl.
23:19.842 --> 23:20.894
Cool. Okay.
23:20.992 --> 23:22.742
And that's not his character's name.
23:22.756 --> 23:53.670
The thing is coming in. Um, yeah. Uh, he came into this because there's a couple of interviews with him. He came into it already, obviously, with the basis that Marlon Brando has already played a very similar character. This Al Pacino has played a very similar character to this. It's like, how do you bring your own brand of I will play the mobster boss.
23:53.670 --> 23:55.238
How am I the top gangster boss?
23:55.274 --> 24:15.458
Yes. How do I put a stamp on this role? And I think what he does really well, and this is something I've always kind of figured out from people who have an intent to hurt you at any sort of given moment is that, um, they pretend to be your friend before they decide they're going to strike.
24:15.554 --> 24:15.994
Yeah.
24:16.092 --> 24:26.470
And that is something, uh, I think he does very well. Yeah. I think he does a very good job. But the issue I have just overall is I think Vigo does such a good job, he fucking outshines everybody.
24:26.640 --> 24:28.110
Yeah.
24:28.110 --> 24:40.498
And as much as even at points where you're like, Vigil is just meant to be in the fucking background and not really say anything, he already kind of already out shines. It's like he just without purpose, just fucking eats the scenery in every way he needs to go.
24:40.584 --> 24:41.610
Yeah.
24:41.610 --> 24:55.486
And I would say that one of the only reasons to watch this movie is for Vigo's performance through and through. If Vigo is not in this movie, the movie falls a little bit flat for me.
24:55.548 --> 24:57.602
There's one other reason to watch this movie.
24:57.686 --> 24:58.186
What's that?
24:58.248 --> 25:04.034
And it's, um. Naomi Watts on a motorcycle. Yeah, I love Naomi Watts.
25:04.082 --> 25:06.542
This is a film of accents.
25:06.686 --> 25:13.978
Do you remember when I said just a second ago that I love Naomi Watts? I'm saying it again just so everyone knows that I love her.
25:14.124 --> 25:15.990
Yeah, that's fine.
25:15.990 --> 25:20.134
I don't even care if her character kind of sucks in this movie. She's still awesome.
25:20.232 --> 25:21.842
Yeah. Her character is awful.
25:21.986 --> 25:24.098
She's so great to watch, and she's riding that motorcycle.
25:24.134 --> 25:32.866
The material she's given fucking so pretty thin is flat. We're not really given a kind of like a, uh, breadth of view of London. We seem to kind of.
25:32.928 --> 25:34.070
You get three locations.
25:34.190 --> 25:36.842
Kind of stick to, like three or four different restaurant.
25:36.986 --> 25:42.110
Hospital, and then the edge of the river where they throw in their dead bodies.
25:42.170 --> 25:52.350
Yeah. And Johnny Watson's house, that's really about it. And then, uh, a kind of smattering of, like, tiny little places that we never see again, but they're just not really worth seeing.
25:52.350 --> 25:52.894
Yeah.
25:52.992 --> 26:31.238
They're not memorable. So really what we get is a very kind of insular and quite cocooned kind of story. Um, but really what it is is that certainly what drives the story is Naomi's characters obviously got hold of this poor girl's diary, and she's got her uncle, who's Russian, to help translate the book. And at first he's quite reluctant to translate it because it's kind of like you don't mess with dead people's belongings. If they weren't entrusted.
26:31.274 --> 26:33.242
They take their secrets to the grave.
26:33.326 --> 27:13.082
Yes. You should bury it with them and to be fair, yeah, they probably should have. But the thing is, what is in the diary is basically a very stark description of this per girl's life and what's happened to her. And certainly the reason she's pregnant is that it's not even the bread. She's raped by the mob boss and they tried their damnedest because a fragrant girl obviously no use in the brothel. So they're obviously doing things to her, hurting her. She does eventually escape, but unfortunately, they've done so much damage to her that she dies during the childbirth.
27:13.226 --> 27:21.334
You know what's interesting is that when you really think about it, this entire journey that Naomi Watts goes on is completely useless. Nothing happens.
27:21.492 --> 27:22.606
Yeah, nothing happens.
27:22.668 --> 27:35.553
All she does is getting herself in trouble and get the baby in trouble. If she hadn't looked at the diary and if she wouldn't have said anything, there would have just been a little baby that would have gotten adopted by a family. And Naomi West, uh.
27:35.553 --> 27:47.370
Would have continued doing her job and then they would have continued being the moth her level of naivety throughout the whole course of the story.
27:47.370 --> 27:57.330
I know you keep mentioning it, and I know her character sucks. Whatever her character does suck, she does get a little tiny kiss from Vigo Mortensen at the end of the movie. And I really liked it.
27:57.330 --> 27:59.850
It just made me roll my fucking eyes.
27:59.850 --> 28:01.214
Excellent chemistry.
28:01.382 --> 28:03.266
No, they didn't have excellent chemistry.
28:03.338 --> 28:04.214
Wonderful chemistry.
28:04.262 --> 28:05.198
No, they didn't.
28:05.354 --> 28:12.166
They did. I loved it. Uh, I thought they made a really nice romantic couple.
28:12.348 --> 28:54.386
The thing is, I like the level of depth and focus we are given to the mob characters in their, uh, day to day lives. Now, I question a few things in the script that obviously are there to kind of like, incite a level of drama into it. So we knock off one of the other captains in the group and there's no reason for it that obviously pisses off other members of the mob. You then come looking at looking for Vincent Cassell. And obviously at this point, V goes an underlying as well. So they're all involved and embroiled in this mob behavior.
28:54.458 --> 28:55.042
It's a mess.
28:55.116 --> 29:32.554
It's a mess. But it's very interesting. And certainly from the scenes that Vigil gets the most stark and revealing of them all is that one where they've murdered the guy. He's frozen in this fucking freezer and he goes in there and he's like, yes, I'll take care of the body. And he basically is like, he's going to snip off the fingers, he's going to take the teeth out, he takes a hand like a hair dryer to the body. And I guess it's the nature in which he approaches this job that he's doing.
29:32.652 --> 29:33.630
Yes.
29:33.630 --> 29:37.300
Is what's incredibly fascinating about it.
29:37.300 --> 29:50.018
Uh, yeah, he's very, uh, meticulous and he's like an old pro. And what's even more interesting is, like, what's revealed towards the end, uh, of the film is the fact that he's.
29:50.114 --> 29:58.186
Well, I think it's more in his nature. It's less so much about what we end up finding out what he is. It's the nature in which he approaches these things.
29:58.368 --> 29:58.930
Okay.
29:59.040 --> 30:08.066
It's the same to, like, making a cup of coffee in the morning. That's what I mean. It doesn't mean anything to him. That's what's very interesting about how he approaches this role.
30:08.138 --> 30:08.626
Okay.
30:08.748 --> 30:18.634
But, yeah, I mean, guess what you're trying to say is by the end of the movie and this is like, after the Dick scene happens, I'll give a fuck about the rest of the film. The rest of the film is like. Just like.
30:18.672 --> 30:23.282
Well, it's also only maybe like 15 minutes left of the movie. After the Dick scene.
30:23.306 --> 30:34.622
It'S like it rushes towards the end. It just wraps some things up without really explaining anything. But, yeah, you, uh, find out he's fucking undercover for the police and it's silly as fuck.
30:34.766 --> 30:37.198
He's been undercover for a very long time.
30:37.284 --> 30:43.018
Yeah. There's like a Russian section of Scotland Yard or something like that. And it's like, right, okay, whatever.
30:43.104 --> 30:44.050
I'm fine with it.
30:44.160 --> 31:00.210
Yeah. So I think if you go in there and you're like, okay, and you just kind of disregard the last 15 minutes, I, um, think you can be treated to quite an interesting insight into this world. As long as you, um, can stomach a bunch of the stuff that happens.
31:00.210 --> 31:05.310
Are you done, um, crapping on the movie already? You crapping on Naomi Watts.
31:05.310 --> 31:06.218
No, I wasn't crapping.
31:06.254 --> 31:07.318
Crapping on the story.
31:07.464 --> 31:08.700
No, not crapping, um.
31:08.714 --> 31:13.890
On Pooping on it. I think that's still a good movie.
31:13.890 --> 31:14.686
It's fine.
31:14.748 --> 31:15.958
I have a question for you.
31:16.044 --> 31:17.002
What's that?
31:17.120 --> 31:21.330
Um, have you ever met a girl named Tatiana?
31:21.330 --> 31:24.194
Yeah. Uh, I like to make love to girls called Tatiana.
31:24.362 --> 31:28.226
Oh, there was one that was raped and she's dead and also had a baby.
31:28.358 --> 31:31.170
Oh, I don't know her.
31:31.170 --> 31:33.938
You never met anyone? You never met anyone in Tatiana?
31:34.034 --> 31:56.042
No, I haven't. Uh, that's a scene in the movie, and that's the thing. That's the one thing where it's kind of like life and death to these guys. Like, it's completely second nature. So the way that they approach things, you'd be absolutely fine. It'd be like that's abhorrent. He just, like, laughs his fucking way through these sorts of conversations.
31:56.126 --> 31:57.722
How are you going to live otherwise?
31:57.866 --> 31:58.606
Yeah.
31:58.788 --> 31:59.954
Laugh or cry.
32:00.122 --> 32:12.566
Yeah. But I think they do a really good job with the dialect and just the way it's kind of like a mixture. They're speaking English, but sometimes they mix in a bunch of Ukrainian and also some Russian and stuff into the same sentences.
32:12.638 --> 32:32.138
I like that a lot, because I really hate when it is just troubling. When you watch a film and everyone's got if they all just had Russian accents and spoke English the whole time, I'd be like, Why? Because when you're with your brethren and you're with people that do speak that language. Why wouldn't you just speak that language?
32:32.234 --> 32:33.142
Yes, you would.
32:33.276 --> 32:34.426
You definitely would.
32:34.488 --> 32:35.110
Yes.
32:35.280 --> 32:39.502
So it's kind of nice. They go back and forth. It seems more real.
32:39.636 --> 32:44.170
They're primarily English and English speaking countries. So they will kind of dip in and out of it.
32:44.220 --> 32:44.734
Yeah, absolutely.
32:44.832 --> 32:45.418
For the most part.
32:45.444 --> 32:54.529
So I think that's pretty mix in words like at the end of a sentence and kind of mix it in all around. I thought that was a good choice.
32:54.529 --> 33:00.798
Uh, yeah. Leading into the Dick scenes.
33:00.954 --> 33:08.214
Getting, uh, a promotion, Vegas, getting promoted to captain instead of being a car driver. Chauffeur driver.
33:08.382 --> 33:18.842
Well, I think he calls himself the driver, but I think he's like the body disposer and also the fucking muscle. We find out.
33:18.976 --> 33:26.830
Yeah. And so he gets a promotion from Papa Mob Boss, the bad boy.
33:26.830 --> 33:41.318
The mob bosses all meet together. And this is a really interesting scene. This is where the film kind of has moments where it shines. They all meet. This is all completely in Russian as well, which I really enjoy.
33:41.404 --> 33:41.726
Yeah.
33:41.788 --> 34:22.570
And he sat there just in his underwear, mhm basically exposing all of his body. And his body is covered in tattoos. Basically, the tattoos say certain things about, uh, his life and how he's come to be so, like, where he went to prison, where he did this, where he did that when he first killed a man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is like, again, I think this was maybe unintentional. But then he starts talking about, like, his parents and he says about his father's father worked for the government and things like that. Blah, blah, blah. Whether the mob bosses goes, well, your fucking father was a fucking coward or whatever.
34:22.570 --> 34:23.790
He's like, I don't have a father.
34:23.850 --> 34:37.630
He's like, I don't have a father, basically. And then they're having one conversation. And there's this, like I'd say the little mob boss guy with the mustache. They're mhm just having a quick conversation. He goes, Your mother was a whore.
34:37.630 --> 34:45.950
Yeah. And then the guy sitting next to him is just staring at him like, Jesus, Greg, what's your problem?
34:46.120 --> 34:47.650
Calm down.
34:47.650 --> 34:51.330
So angry. And he's like, yeah, I don't have a mother.
34:51.390 --> 35:12.390
Yeah. But there's been things like, there's certainly a little bit more depth to Vigo's character because he's had little moments of respite all the way through the film where he's shown a level of mercy and he's lied to Papama's boss. Yeah. I thought it was funny.
35:12.510 --> 35:14.594
That was really funny. I didn't notice that before.
35:14.692 --> 35:21.070
That little look almost as funny as his pronunciation of Edinburgh.
35:21.070 --> 35:54.450
How did he do it? Well, there ends up being a situation where newly promoted Vigo is invited to Bathhouse Dixie to chat about work and job stuff. And he gets invited by a guy who had recently been blown off by Big Pop and Mop boss pretty much will not have any issue with him and with his family again. Yeah. It's like, stay away from us, whatever.
35:54.560 --> 36:04.866
This is also a character who doesn't have any tattoos. So for whatever reason, he's not, like, intrinsic to this, that he was like a barbers. This is the same place.
36:04.928 --> 36:09.114
Maybe he's like a logistics guy. The captain, the money laundering guy.
36:09.272 --> 36:30.930
Yeah. For whatever reason, he's been in this kind of situation, obviously. So for whatever reason, the brothers of the person who was killed have caught them to him, and they've tricked them into thinking that Vigo is the Vincent Cassell character who ordered, uh, the hit before.
36:30.930 --> 36:36.002
It's getting very convoluted. But basically, in short, basically, Vigo is going to get attacked.
36:36.086 --> 36:42.586
Papa mob boss is the one that ordered the poor hit on Vigo. And Vigo is going to get attacked in the bath house.
36:42.708 --> 36:55.530
Yeah. And this is quite a long scene, and it's very intense, but mhm yeah. These two brothers come in with these kind of hooked knives.
36:55.530 --> 36:56.254
Yes.
36:56.412 --> 37:11.990
And just really go for Vigo. And Vigo had been sitting in the bath house, obviously, uh, in a towel, because you're not like a steam room. You're in a Russian bath house. And that towel just drops instantly. Drops.
37:12.050 --> 37:41.122
Well, the thing is, he's sitting down, first of all. And the camera tracks into him because he sees the people coming in from the door that's on the other side of the room. There's also another couple of guys who are in the Stadium as well, those poor men. But he's, uh, sitting. He's got his legs splayed wide open. You can already see his Dick at that point. But then, obviously, when he goes through the fighting, he is completely naked in this scene lasts for a good, like five minutes.
37:41.196 --> 38:02.850
Yeah. It's a very long scene of just kicking, punching, elbowing knives. He's getting slashed with these knives back and forth. They're running around, throwing each other around on the ground. It's really horrible. It's really quite horrible. I mean, there's just, um, blood everywhere.
38:02.970 --> 38:05.294
Yeah. It gets caught at least, like three or four times.
38:05.332 --> 38:09.250
The face on the chest.
38:09.250 --> 39:02.810
But what it is and I think, I guess we'll go into context and things like what justifies this. And it feels a little bit more original is the fact that he is completely fucking naked. He's completely exposed, and it's very visceral and it's very revealing. Some of the things he does. I wouldn't say it's like the most violent thing you've ever seen in your life, but it feels incredibly raw, which is something I quite appreciated about it. And I think because of Vigo's bravery with portraying this character and just being completely naked is that you can just see everything and everything that kind of happened. I guess the only thing that I would say to the detriment of the scene and the thing that kind of pulls me out from it a little bit, it's just some of the use of the punching sound effects.
39:02.810 --> 39:03.630
Oh, really?
39:03.740 --> 39:07.378
Yeah. They sound a bit stuck and weird.
39:07.534 --> 39:11.974
I did not notice that. Yeah, I'm just too worried about him getting cut with that knife.
39:12.082 --> 39:13.014
Because I always, like.
39:13.052 --> 39:13.914
Just looking out for him.
39:13.952 --> 39:47.250
I always like a good fight scene that strays away from your fucking Rockies. You know what I mean? I want it to sound like it's hitting, like, packed meat or something. It doesn't feel like it's doesn't sound like fucking Batman 69. I want it to feel a bit more real, because if you punch someone in real life, it doesn't sound like that. It doesn't sound like you slapped a wet fish.
39:47.250 --> 39:49.582
I've never punched anyone in the face before.
39:49.656 --> 40:04.970
It seems like it's about a stalk as the Wilhelm Scream. I think that's the only thing that kind of prevented me. Plus, I mean, the scene itself and this is more public acronym. I think the scene is just a little bit too bright. Wish it was just, uh, a little bit darker.
40:05.030 --> 40:08.974
No, I don't disagree. I think it was just as bright as it needed to be.
40:09.012 --> 40:23.810
Yeah, there's a lot of Claret getting flung around. Vigo does some horrible things to these men. Like he kills them in a very disturbing fashion, and he does it all, um, completely starbull. It naked.
40:23.990 --> 40:43.682
Yeah, it's interesting, too, because that wasn't a part of the script. It's not as though it was written in the script. That Nikolai goes in there, then ends up naked and fights naked. It wasn't in there. It wasn't in the choreography. But I guess Viggo and Kronenberg were having a discussion one day, and Vigo goes, It makes sense. I got to do it naked.
40:43.766 --> 40:46.654
Yes, it makes sense because the towel wouldn't stay on.
40:46.812 --> 40:49.826
No way. If it stayed on to be a magic towel.
40:49.898 --> 40:50.398
And if it was.
40:50.424 --> 40:55.786
I can't even get the towel to stay on in regular life, let alone when I'm fighting for my life.
40:55.908 --> 41:02.610
Yeah, that's true. I mean, there's been plenty of times where I was just like, I wish this towel would stay on when I was buying a couple of guys with naive in the bath.
41:02.610 --> 41:21.802
You just got to get it done. It was a three day shoot for that bathhouse scene. And, um, Vigo got massively bruised. He got real hurt, but he didn't tell, um, David Cronenberg. He didn't say anything, but only the makeup people knew because they had to patch up his bruises every day.
41:21.996 --> 41:34.770
Vigil is one of those guys, though. It's like he was, like, on the set of Lord of the Rings. Like a knife went, uh, and came towards him, and he drew his sword, and he was able to fly the knife away from himself.
41:34.770 --> 41:47.470
There's that scene where they were chasing Marion Pippin in those two towers, uh, and he kicks an Orchid or an ORC helmet on the ground, and, um, he breaks his fucking foot all right.
41:47.520 --> 41:47.878
Okay.
41:47.964 --> 41:59.486
And that's the shot that's in the movie. And he screams and he's probably screaming because he broke his foot, but he just made it into his frustration scream. And he went to his knees.
41:59.558 --> 42:04.890
Yeah, this guy does. Yeah, he does some shit.
42:04.890 --> 42:06.982
Vigil, uh, Mortensen is really cool.
42:07.176 --> 42:08.730
Vigil is awesome.
42:08.730 --> 42:14.494
There was, like a movie he was in where he really liked his horse. And they got along so well. He bought the horse and now they're best friends.
42:14.652 --> 42:15.010
Yeah.
42:15.060 --> 42:17.818
He does music and stuff. Yeah, he's cool.
42:17.904 --> 42:21.526
Yeah. He's, uh, like a fucking Renaissance man.
42:21.648 --> 42:26.282
Yeah. I got a lot more to say about this, Dixie.
42:26.426 --> 42:27.010
Oh, do you?
42:27.060 --> 42:29.190
That's my whole page of notes.
42:29.190 --> 42:29.590
Okay.
42:29.640 --> 42:30.650
It's about this big scene.
42:30.710 --> 42:31.940
Carry on.
42:31.940 --> 42:49.170
Um, there was a reporter for Ain't It Cool News. Apparently that Croneenberg ended up finding this article that this guy wrote who was totally obsessed with Viggo Mortens's balls.
42:49.350 --> 42:50.042
Oh, okay.
42:50.116 --> 43:30.206
He was really weird about it. And so there was an interview with Cronenberg, and he said it wasn't like there was a close up of them, but this guy was obsessed. He even wrote big hairy balls in quotes. And he's like, they're definitely there, as you would imagine. But it's only if you're looking for them frame by frame. And you're going to see everything at one point or another. And of course, a lot of the time it's going to be slightly blurred because he's in motion. I mean. Yeah, fair enough. But it's not one of those 1 hour photo type of moments where you have to, like, pause and go, like, did I see a dude you're like, I saw his butt hole. I saw his balls. I saw everything.
43:30.328 --> 43:32.050
Yeah.
43:32.050 --> 43:32.757
Why wouldn't, um.
43:32.757 --> 43:37.682
He yeah, he gets himself into some precarious positions, like double door on the floor and stuff like that.
43:37.816 --> 43:44.150
There's a part where he's, like, on top of the guy before he stabs him in the chest and his balls are on the guy's leg. Of course they're going to be.
43:44.200 --> 43:44.930
Yeah, of course they are.
43:44.980 --> 43:59.066
Because why would you shy away from that? But I think that's what happened, uh, a lot of the time when they were filming it, is that Cronenberg would just let them do it, and he mhm would just film it as it happened, obviously. You know what I mean. He's not over directing. Like, what's happening?
43:59.128 --> 44:02.778
We're not talking about it. It's not gratuitous.
44:02.934 --> 44:04.570
No.
44:04.570 --> 44:20.162
The fact is, and this is the reason why the same kind of works a little bit better is that everything's all in the right place and nothing's too, I guess, exaggerated or focused on for too long.
44:20.236 --> 44:25.202
No, you're just watching the scene as you would expect to see the scene on hold.
44:25.336 --> 44:36.030
And the drama of the scene is what's projecting it forward. It's not what we're exposing ourselves to in terms of it's. Vigil Morton's and naked.
44:36.210 --> 45:02.690
It is quite shocking. The focus startling. Not shocking in a bad way. I'm just like, Hell, yeah, that dude's naked is my favorite thing in the world, but it makes sense. And it wouldn't make any sense if they tried to. You wouldn't be in a bathhouse wearing anything other than towel anyway, unless you stapled that shit shut. Yeah, that thing's coming off, baby. And if they only shot that in the mid form his torso, you'd be like, what the fuck is this?
45:02.860 --> 45:06.350
Here's my other thing. And this isn't to go against, like, ain't a cool news.
45:06.400 --> 45:12.866
I just love that Cronenberg just, like, really honed in on this guy who's, like, Why does he keep talking about Vigo's Ball so much?
45:12.988 --> 45:45.662
And, like, whether or not Cronenberg saying it directly or indirectly, this is a prime example as to why certain things happen in the film industry is because of press response to it. His response is effectively like a red. Like, it's a red card to basically be like, well, just don't have folk naked and seeing it in future films because of fucking asinine stupid responses like this.
45:45.796 --> 45:51.902
Yeah. There's not going to be a dude from Ain't It Cool news that's going on and talking about someone's big hairy pits or whatever, you know what I mean?
45:51.976 --> 45:52.250
No.
45:52.300 --> 45:53.406
Like, it's ridiculous.
45:53.478 --> 46:01.850
No. And the thing is, okay, like, making the separation.
46:01.850 --> 46:02.286
Sorry.
46:02.348 --> 46:34.386
Because obviously that's the thing. It's press response to. I guess there's a creative reason why actors decide to take on roles like this and to perform in the way that they perform them without, um, having to be under the scrutiny in the eye of the press, bearing down on them, looking for something that they can exploit for the public to then digest afterwards. You know what I mean?
46:34.448 --> 46:55.650
Fico is like a consummate actor. He's a dude that gets him, uh, done. He goes above and beyond all the time. I don't, um, think this is the first time he's been naked in the movie. He's been naked in at least three films. So, uh, I mean, he's a man that's comfortable with, um, himself. He's a man that's comfortable with his craft, and he's going to do what it takes to get it done.
46:55.700 --> 47:12.930
Yeah. I just think that responses like that don't help the situation. No, definitely, if you're looking to try and create some level of balance, and certainly, I think now more than ever, like, you're looking at TV shows and films that use prosthetics or they use standings. More often than not.
47:13.100 --> 47:14.470
We'Re looking at, uhbo.
47:14.590 --> 47:17.142
Yeah, pretty much can't be like.
47:17.156 --> 47:25.230
Oh, um, we've got penises in almost every single first episode of all of our new shows now because of asthma responses like that.
47:25.280 --> 47:49.662
And I feel like that's just the media in general, and that's not very specific or particular to what we're covering on the podcast, because at least I feel like how we cover things on the podcast is we look at the art of it and certainly me more particularly, I look very much at the kind of scrutinizing the context and the reasoning for it, because as much as I feel like you're saying that.
47:49.676 --> 47:50.562
I don't look at that.
47:50.636 --> 48:12.730
No, I think you have to defend certain like, you have to decide if we're defending the exposure of, say, male actors within the medium. It also extends out to female actresses in the medium as well. I feel like we're being very protective of it.
48:12.900 --> 48:13.594
Right.
48:13.752 --> 49:10.559
And I don't feel like that level, like the level to which a performer takes a role shouldn't be exploited in the press to the point where they then have to fucking think twice about why they're doing certain things. I feel like performing and acting in general is a very instinctual thing. And because it's so instinctual, that's why you have this individuality. That's why you have a Vego doing a role like this, as opposed to Vego doing, I don't know, a Jack Black role or whatever. You know what I mean? This is where we are with it. And I feel like you have to protect them from stupid responses like this, because I think they're just that because it means nothing. Means nothing. It's just a quick clip for a couple of fucking clicks on your website. Celebrity gossip, all that. It's all dross.
49:10.559 --> 49:11.086
Uh, yeah.
49:11.148 --> 49:13.230
And you're digesting crap.
49:13.230 --> 49:44.910
No, I 100% agree. Uh, because I still think that having more of an equality in terms of nudity in cinema is getting better, but still a joke. Uh, especially the fact that all of the men I'm not talking about all of them. But like, how you were saying, with the prosthetics that are becoming more and more and more common, especially on HBO, I think it's a problem.
49:44.910 --> 50:21.694
I'm not saying so much that it's a problem, but I feel like it's reactionary to the fact that people don't want individuals themselves don't want to feel exploited. And I feel like because we live in such an age now where the media is 24/7, it's always available to everybody and people's views, or at least people feel like their views need to be heard every which way. But we're all entitled to one in this vein of what we're talking about here in this bubble is enough to dissuade someone from pursuing in their craft the way that they felt like they could before.
50:21.852 --> 50:39.930
Well, here's the thing why I'm complaining that I do think that the prosthetic thing is a problem. For example, Steve Zon in The White Lotus, like that first episode of that show on HBO, there was nudity. He knew there was nudity, and he thought he was going to do it.
50:39.930 --> 50:40.894
Yeah, okay.
50:40.932 --> 51:11.434
And he's like, oh, yeah. Um, Mike White, um, he's like, oh, no, you don't have to do it. We'll get a prosthetic. He goes, oh, okay. Uh, so I'll just sit there. He goes, no, you don't even have to be here. Yeah, Stevenson's. Like, oh, all right, cool. So that's less work for me to do. But you have actors that are given an opportunity to do something like that. Not that they necessarily want to go in and whip their Dick out or anything, but when it's just like, women don't really have the opportunity to get a prosthetic boo or like.
51:11.472 --> 51:29.370
A prosthetic vagina, that comes down more to an argument of what frames you use when you're filming them. It's a lot easier to film a man from the waist up and not have to show us anything than it is to show a woman.
51:29.370 --> 51:29.734
Right.
51:29.772 --> 52:41.370
Of course, uh, from the shoulders up because of the emotional responses you get from the different kind of frames. Wider frames are used for comedy. Closer frames are used for drama. That's just the kind of way it's always been. But I would say that, I guess because of the world that we live in now, and this is me kind of generalizing a little bit. Is that because we feel like people get offended so easily to the simplest things or even any sort of passing comments? Mhm. I guess there was already this presumption, let's say, let's take the Zan White situation, uh, just there. I feel like there's already a presumption that he wouldn't want to go through with it because he wouldn't want to put himself in, uh, a jeopardizing position, so to speak. A closed set environment where you go, your director, photographer, maybe one other person there primarily kind of focusing on certain elements of Steve's body as much as he might have been okay with doing it and getting it done. That's an environment some people don't want to find themselves in.
52:41.370 --> 53:16.318
That you can have a body double, and you can do that for women, too. I'm not saying that that's not an option, but I just do think that there's the idea for the general public. And obviously, I'm generalizing about what a man's penis looks like in general. So you have a general idea. Like, if you close your eyes, can you imagine a penis? It looks like this. And so when you put a penis on screen that looks any different from what the general idea of what a penis looks like, I feel like people don't like it.
53:16.404 --> 53:18.990
Yeah.
53:18.990 --> 53:28.838
Or maybe it's not that the people don't like it. I think it's more of, like. It's like a general perception that the penis doesn't live up to expectations. To expectations.
53:28.934 --> 55:18.210
Yeah. That's just kind of we're moving back into this media thing. But let me put it this way. There's always been a thing around, like, celebrity culture and interest, and it's like, I wonder what our tips look like. I wonder what his deck looks like. And the minute you kind of do that and you label it a certain way is like where I feel like, obviously it crosses a line from Privacy, intimate Privacy into something else where it becomes this kind of obsession of celebrity culture, okay. Which we've always kind of had Because obviously, technology is moving forward. There's more outlets, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. But certainly, I would say there's a reason why certain actors don't do certain roles or perform certain duties, and I feel like with women, It's so much harder for them to escape the idea mhm of nudity is because of like, what I just said is absolutely a lot harder for them to hide their boobs in a scene if the shots are wider, you know, for sure, because of where, um, obviously breasts themselves are situated on the human body is just whatever. Okay. Where it comes with, uh, a man. I feel like there's a level of bravery, But I just feel like, for the most part, they just don't want to deal with any level of backlash to, like, is it too big? Is it too small? What does it look like that for? It's a very kind of different It's a very kind of different thing, and I feel like women have to deal with that as well. And certainly this idea of, like, body image 100%, and it's just a bit.
55:18.210 --> 55:28.742
It'S And I just want a little bit of equality, that's all. And thanks, FICO.
55:28.886 --> 55:33.330
Yeah, he did a good job in this one.
55:33.330 --> 56:01.114
Vigo had said that during the shooting of this particular scene, he would come over and Vigo would be, like, sprawled out in between cuts and Crown, be like, oh, sorry. And he'd make, like, an inappropriate joke and then walk away and then just be like, oh, let's do another one. Trying to just keep it kind of light and breezy, Even though this is, like, really intense and really difficult that scene. But Cronenberg would just try to make light of the whole thing.
56:01.152 --> 56:34.550
That's how he's always approached, I guess, not only that, but just his sex scenes and stuff, Because Adrian Lynn had the exact same approach. It's like the only way you kind of stop something that's because it's very uncomfortable, like you're kind of naked or you're doing things like, in a situation, and you're also surrounded by 20 crew members or something at any one time, Certainly under the screw in, um, the eyes. And then it's like you've got to make sure that you're fucking performing well enough within the frame that you're told you have to do it, and you have to make sure that you're catching your light whale and all that sort.
56:34.600 --> 56:39.618
You're not doing, like a Tommy we so from the room just, like, having sex with someone's lower thigh.
56:39.714 --> 56:57.482
Yeah, pretty much. But yeah, no, I think it can be. I think you have to lighten it up, and also you need to just guarantee and make sure you reassure people that while they're in a situation like that, that what they're doing is working, and it's going to loop right when it's all put together.
56:57.676 --> 57:17.194
Yeah. So there aren't any accolades. There weren't any, uh, awards, really. At least none of the big hitters. It was nominated, but Vigor was nominated, uh, for Best Actor at the Academy Awards. But he lost Daniel Day Lewis for There Will Be Blood.
57:17.302 --> 57:21.190
Of course he does, because Daniel Day Lewis does not lose.
57:21.370 --> 57:22.282
He doesn't.
57:22.426 --> 57:23.914
That's not his, uh, method.
57:24.022 --> 57:25.534
If he wins, he wins.
57:25.642 --> 57:36.910
Yeah, that's the thing. He does not break character until he wins.
57:36.910 --> 57:39.606
And if he doesn't win, he's just that character.
57:39.678 --> 57:49.190
It's a lot harder for him to get up onto the stage when he was getting his award for My Left Foot that way.
57:49.190 --> 57:51.922
That's why you think to everyone, um, while holding it between his feet.
57:52.006 --> 58:06.802
Pretty much the fucking microphone between his toes. Yeah. Not to say anything about people, certainly, um, because it's a true the life story, and that was it. It was a fascinating film. A fascinating character with some very lovely paintings.
58:06.826 --> 58:09.174
So please don't fucking attach making fun of Daniel, too.
58:09.212 --> 58:13.370
It's a joke. Monsters.
58:13.370 --> 58:18.514
Let's jump into our ratings. So do you want to give me your visibility and context rating?
58:18.682 --> 58:20.910
Probably, like, maybe four.
58:21.080 --> 58:21.594
Okay.
58:21.692 --> 58:30.570
Because I like the way this scene plays out. Yes. No, I can't put, uh, my finger on it. It kind of reminds me of something else, but I'm just not too sure what it is, but.
58:30.620 --> 58:32.270
Okay.
58:32.270 --> 58:42.558
Yeah, I'm going to say a four, because I do like the scene. I think if you watch the scene but you don't listen to the punching sounds, I think it's perfectly fine.
58:42.644 --> 58:44.330
Okay.
58:44.330 --> 58:52.260
But, um, yeah, I'd say about a four by four. It all makes sense. There's a reason why he's like that.
58:52.260 --> 59:09.290
Uh, no, I completely agree. I gave it a five. Um, okay, I gave it a five. It's, um, got longevity. The context is. Well, although the context is rough, it is an absolute necessity.
59:09.290 --> 59:09.966
Makes sense.
59:10.028 --> 59:23.990
I mean, I'm, um, being congratulatory of Viggo Mortensen, but just because I think he deserves it, and everything in this movie that is good, or at least that kind of sticks with you with his idea.
59:23.990 --> 59:25.130
Yeah.
59:25.130 --> 59:37.746
So good for him. And he really put his Mark on this film, and it shows and it elevates this film. It elevates this scene, which. Who knows what it would have been like without him, and I don't want to know.
59:37.868 --> 59:42.190
Yeah, I know. I think he's a massive contributor to the film.
59:42.310 --> 59:48.230
Yes. And what about your overall, uh, film rating?
59:48.230 --> 00:39.966
Yeah. So, no, I gave it a three. I felt a three was quite generous, though, just because if it just focused on the mob, and that was kind of it, and we just kind of showed how fucking horrific the whole thing was. And I like the idea of following Vigo's character a little bit more through it, just to kind of get an idea of the juxtaposition between the slightly more edgier, sort of gangsters and he's obviously got a slightly softer side. It's just a shame that like, what's revealed near towards the end. And I don't like Naomi Watts'character at all. You feel like it's just kind of being pissed away. Uh, luckily it's only in the last, like, 15 minutes.
00:40.148 --> 00:56.394
True. Yeah. I gave, um, it a three and a half. And it's funny that when we're breaking it down and you really do realize that all of this was for nothing. Weird.
00:56.502 --> 01:01.650
Here's the elephant in the room. By the time the film ends, she has the baby.
01:01.710 --> 01:02.826
She does take that baby.
01:02.898 --> 01:04.514
She has the baby at home.
01:04.672 --> 01:17.078
And I don't know what happens in hospitals when there's just a baby that needs a home. Do you just get to pick them? No, I don't think that you do. No, she has to go through the system.
01:17.224 --> 01:17.942
They go through the system.
01:17.956 --> 01:25.230
She has, um, to be an eligible foster parent or an adoptive parent. And it takes forever.
01:25.350 --> 01:53.390
I don't need an extra 20 minutes added to the movie explaining how she got the child. It's not like, say, that edit in fucking 2001 when they threw the bone up into the sky and it goes forward like, fucking 3 million years into the future. All I wanted was an idea as to she's fucking helped deliver this kid. Now she has the kids.
01:53.390 --> 02:16.954
Makes no sense because I don't think that it definitely isn't how it works, but I don't know, it's fine. I couldn't have gone any other way. It's not like you could have wrapped up the film and she's just hanging out with her mum and uncle again, alone. She's going to end up with a baby, you know? She's always going to end up with that baby.
02:17.002 --> 02:28.542
Yeah. Like I say, their racist uncle. He's very racist. That whole kind of family, that whole idea. Like, the more I analyze it.
02:28.556 --> 02:45.982
Like, I wish I imagine that, like, on the film, on the adoption application and like, OK, so what's your job? Oh, my midwife. Where do you live? I'll live with my mom and my uncle. Okay. Do you think maybe have a place of your own, whereas this baby sleeping? It just seems strange.
02:46.126 --> 02:47.698
Yeah, it's strange. It shouldn't.
02:47.734 --> 02:55.878
I feel like the adoption people would go, I don't think this is a good idea. Things are too entangled and you're putting a lot of your feelings on this kid.
02:55.964 --> 03:10.494
But I feel like a lot of this stuff doesn't deserve it. A lot of the stuff that we are kind of, like, very nitpicky about and that we don't really like particularly much, I feel like, because all the original crap that was in Steven Knight's script and Steven Knight also wrote that Serenity movie, and it's easily one of the worst fucking films ever.
03:10.532 --> 03:16.426
Not The Serenity. That's the Sci-Fi movie. Um, that's based, like The Firefly. Firefly?
03:16.498 --> 03:16.878
Yeah.
03:16.964 --> 03:19.842
People are going to hate that. I don't know the name of that I never watched that show. Yeah.
03:19.916 --> 03:41.530
I think there's some really shining moments in Eastern Promises, and I think there's an unflinching nature about it. I kind of feel like it kind of falls a lot into some trophy kind of mediocre nonsense. And I feel like a lot of the flourishes are really all to do with the mob stuff, which is far more interesting than the things that are in the film.
03:41.590 --> 03:45.890
Just say, uh, that I love Naomi Watts.
03:45.890 --> 03:46.290
Okay.
03:46.340 --> 03:47.154
I love her.
03:47.252 --> 03:50.358
Cool. I think we'll watch fucking King Kong then.
03:50.504 --> 03:51.150
Oh, I will.
03:51.200 --> 03:52.818
Yes. There's all 3 hours of that.
03:52.904 --> 03:54.650
Watch Maholland Drive.
03:54.650 --> 03:58.426
There you go. Another 4 hours. You can add to your Naomi Watts.
03:58.618 --> 04:00.474
She's in so many things that I love.
04:00.632 --> 04:02.626
Look, I've got no problem with Naomi Watts.
04:02.698 --> 04:12.334
What was that movie that she was in with? They were like moms, and then they have sex with each other's sons. Have you heard of that movie?
04:12.442 --> 04:14.150
Okay.
04:14.150 --> 04:18.790
It's called Adore A-D-O-R-E. Not like, oh, I'm going to open a door.
04:18.850 --> 04:19.582
A door.
04:19.726 --> 04:32.202
It's Naomi Watts and Robin Wright, and they both are single mothers, and they've got two sexy sons, and they end up having sex with each other's kids.
04:32.396 --> 04:33.198
All right.
04:33.344 --> 04:34.878
It's crazy.
04:35.024 --> 04:36.330
Yeah, it sounds crazy.
04:36.500 --> 04:37.518
I loved it.
04:37.604 --> 04:38.766
Is there a deck in it, though?
04:38.828 --> 04:39.498
No. Good.
04:39.524 --> 04:48.698
We'll never cover it. We didn't cover a fantastic film, but it led to some interesting discussion.
04:48.734 --> 04:55.950
Which I think it's still fairly good. I, um, still think that this is worth watching.
04:55.950 --> 04:58.310
It has a high rating on Letterbox.
04:58.430 --> 05:02.620
I didn't even ask you if you would recommend it.
05:02.620 --> 05:54.902
Um, yeah, it's not very long. It's not very long. It's like an hour 40, I think. I guess, like, the suspension of disbelief in some of the things that kind of does doesn't come from Vincent Cassell and Vigor Mortensen, because all of that stuff, all the mob stuff feels solid as fuck. Yes, I love that shit. I love, like, looking into that stuff. It's just unfortunate that Naomi Watts is in that whole family dynamic that she has and the way that it kind of sneaks its way through and it's like the weakest part of the film. I would watch it purely for Vincent Cassel and Viggo Mortensen. They are solid. That stuff is really good. They deliver Vega, probably more so.
05:55.036 --> 05:56.678
But Cassell is awesome.
05:56.764 --> 05:58.082
Cassell is real good.
05:58.216 --> 05:59.550
He's very scary.
05:59.730 --> 06:06.122
Yeah, he's scary. He's also really good in La Hain, uh, which I know you've never seen.
06:06.196 --> 06:14.950
It's true. So that movie, he's also a full frontal all star. Just check the website, because I added a bunch of stuff that he's in.
06:14.950 --> 06:18.902
He's also in a couple of those ocean Eleven smoothies as well.
06:18.976 --> 06:20.282
Very familiar face.
06:20.416 --> 06:20.678
Yeah.
06:20.704 --> 06:37.570
You know what's interesting? My very last tidbit that, uh, I had written down was that back in 2013, Kerenberg was actually in pre production for the sequel to this film. That was based in Russia with both Vego and Cassell. It was called Eastern Promises. Um, too.
06:37.570 --> 06:46.550
Hey, look, at least he's got the balls to actually put a number on this. On the movie as a sequel. No. Where you've got to guess if it's a sequel or not.
06:46.600 --> 06:48.546
To the too fast, too furious.
06:48.618 --> 06:56.406
Like, they've got horrible fucking subtitles. Like Venom. Venom is not Venom Two. It's Venom. Let there be carnage. Like the level of confusion.
06:56.598 --> 06:58.914
I thought it was Venom Two. Let there be Carnage.
06:58.962 --> 07:00.942
Nope, it's just Venom. Let there be Carnage.
07:01.026 --> 07:07.422
Whatever. It doesn't need to be a sequel. It just can be another Venom movie. Why can't it just be another Venom movie?
07:07.506 --> 07:10.142
Because I like there to be numbers, so I know exactly what I'm watching.
07:10.216 --> 07:11.930
You like there to be numbers?
07:12.100 --> 07:14.462
Yeah, because that's what I grew up with.
07:14.656 --> 07:15.950
You grew up with numbers.
07:16.060 --> 07:24.794
Yeah, well, everyone likes Speed, right? Everyone likes that movie. But no one's wanting to watch Speed Two Cruise Control.
07:24.952 --> 07:33.190
No fucking duh. Why? Because it doesn't have a number in front of it? No, because it is stupid. No, I cannot believe that. Speed as.
07:33.190 --> 07:35.270
Hold on, finish what I was going to say.
07:35.320 --> 07:35.786
Sorry.
07:35.908 --> 08:18.734
Just like, shitting all over there's. Speed, right? And then there's Speed, too. Cruise Control. If you're like, say your grandmother goes in there and you're like, I want Speed for Christmas, right? For whatever reason. And they fucking pick you up. Speed Two Cruise Control. What if it didn't have the two on it? They'd just be super confusing. They're like, well, look, it must be this one. Must be Speed Cruise Control. No, it's not. It's the fucking shitty fucking sequel to the Speed movie that they obviously did want. You know what I mean? What's all this idea, like, subtitling everything? Just put a fucking number on it. Rocky did it perfectly fine. Friday the 13th movies, actually. No. Yeah, Friday the 13th movies. They did it pretty well. They put numbers on everything.
08:18.832 --> 08:19.722
Halloween didn't.
08:19.806 --> 08:27.306
Nightmare and Elle Street didn't. But then they had other ones, like Westcamp's New Nightmare and stuff that were like, kind of standalone things and all this other sorts.
08:27.318 --> 08:27.890
It's a good one.
08:27.940 --> 08:35.594
Yeah. At least Friday the 13th. At least they fucking stuck to it. Even when, like, Jason. Jason X came out. Still a fucking 10th film. It doesn't matter, right?
08:35.692 --> 08:36.614
Jason goes to hell.
08:36.652 --> 08:56.110
Yeah. And at least fast that's it. The fast movies are like, some of them are pretty bad. But you know what you're going into, right? At the same time, at least they have the decency to fucking number them to know exactly what you're watching. And it's not. It's not a confusing, minefield mess.
08:56.110 --> 09:06.050
Okay, so the reason that we don't, um, have Eastern Promises, too, is because the now former CEO of Focus Features shut it down.
09:06.220 --> 09:06.626
Okay?
09:06.688 --> 09:21.550
But as of December 2020, the script, or at least the idea of the Eastern Promises to Has Been Turned Into a JSON. Statham vehicle and It's, um, called Small Dark Look.
09:21.550 --> 09:22.094
Okay.
09:22.192 --> 09:29.406
And The Director Is a Danish director called Mark Zend Valette.
09:29.598 --> 09:30.026
Okay.
09:30.088 --> 09:35.070
There's no News On that. Ever since, like, the It's Going to Die.
09:35.190 --> 09:35.994
Nobody Cares.
09:36.042 --> 09:37.298
No, It's Not Going To Come Out.
09:37.384 --> 09:53.870
It's not Eastern Promises, too. And plus, when they say things like as Adjacent Statham Vehicle. All right, well, look, how many films is that man made that are almost completely forgettable countless zero. All Right, whatever.
09:54.040 --> 09:57.446
Crank Two that's Got A number on it as well.
09:57.508 --> 10:02.110
So at least, you know, it's Not Just Crank High Voltage.
10:02.110 --> 10:03.806
They're Both really good, though.
10:03.988 --> 10:11.078
Yeah, they're Both really good movies. I haven't got any problem with them. Yeah, look, anyway, we're done.
10:11.224 --> 10:32.238
Thank You, Ryan, for talking with me today and our Christmas episode. And Happy Christmas. Uh, Merry Christmas to everybody. Have a great New Year This Year to end. And, um, yeah, make sure to buy a used copy of Eastern Promises, uh, And Give It To all Your family this Christmas.
10:32.334 --> 10:37.598
Yeah, they'll really appreciate it. Put It On your Christmas viewing list.
10:37.744 --> 10:42.977
Yeah, put It along with Diehard and Home Alone and The Apartment.
10:42.977 --> 10:44.390
Mhm jingle All The Way.
10:44.500 --> 10:45.074
Hell, yeah.
10:45.112 --> 10:50.490
Jingle All The Way Just like pop it in. It's Good family Fair. Made Some Promises.
10:50.610 --> 10:58.434
Such a Good movie. Yeah, great. Thanks. Uh, again, guys. And have a good one.
10:58.532 --> 11:03.046
And, um, toast with your agnog to Vigo cutting Off Some fingers.
11:03.238 --> 11:05.026
Toast with your Vodka.
11:05.218 --> 11:07.470
Your Agnog is Christmassy, right?
11:07.520 --> 11:10.414
But you put your vodka in the Agnostic.
11:10.462 --> 11:16.362
I don't know. Just fucking do whatever, um, right. Okay. Hold up.
11:16.556 --> 11:21.470
Coming to, um, you from the Trans Siberian Restaurant. I have been, Laura.
11:21.470 --> 11:22.666
I'm Ryan.
11:22.858 --> 11:26.670
Thank God. Merry Christmas. And we will see you next year.
11:26.720 --> 11:27.910
Yeah. Merry Christmas.
11:28.030 --> 11:36.000
Bye.