A film we didn't realize had nudity until a re-watch: ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ! Enjoy our chat about history, our trip to San Francisco, and this Don Siegel classic!
Ryan got very excited when a Don Siegel film he watched had a fairly evident full-frontal moment in the first 7 minutes of the film. His love of 50's, 60's and 70's American cinema cannot be understated as this "historically" focused episode tracks the interesting facts about Alcatraz Prison and the true story this film follows.
Yeah, we've done something a bit different here, covering the 1979 action-adventure movie ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ, starring male archetype Clint Eastwood and host of other classic character actors of the time. We recently went to San Fransisco and visited the island so watching the film with actual geographical knowledge and a sense of the conditions of the prison really set a sense eeriness and familiarity we weren't expecting. I mean, this episode could easily be an advertisement for how cool and interesting that place is so sit back, enjoy our holiday snaps and videos and watch Clint stuff a bar of soap down a man's throat for only wanting his puddin'.
(In Clint voice) "How about you show me what you got?"
Ryan: So oh, I, can hear that computer like crazy, this one.
Laura: The plane will land momentarily. Please remain in your seat. Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE, the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. my name is Laura, and I am joined by my prison inmate, Ryan. What's that for?
Ryan: That's my Clint Eastwood impression.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: You don't like it?
Laura: It was just breathing.
Ryan: When you show me what you got.
Laura: Show me what you get.
Ryan: Show me what you got, punk.
Laura: well, we're going to show you what we have. And what we have for you is 1979 action thriller and our third prison movie.
Ryan: Yes, we love ourselves a prison movie.
Laura: Here Escape from Alcatraz. I don't know why I watched was I put it on one day. I think there's a few movies that I just don't typically feel like watching. Clint Eastwood films are one of them. And you always tell me, he's, good. You like it?
Ryan: Well, it's not so much that we.
Laura: Were I think I watched this on my own.
Ryan: I think we always we always go on these. Oh, did you watch Escape from Alcatraz on your own?
Laura: I think it's because we were going to San Francisco and I thought, let's get them in. After watching Ant Man, I decided. let's watch Escape From Alcatraz.
Ryan: Yeah, well, obviously Ant Man's not a fantastic San Francisco movie.
Laura: The definitive. And then I watched Venom.
Ryan: Oh, God. Okay. yeah, because if you think about, like, San Francisco or film set in San Francisco, bullets one of them. Dirty Harry is another one.
Laura: The Rock.
Ryan: and definitely the rock. The Rock is maybe my favorite film that's set in San Francisco.
Laura: Hell, yeah.
Ryan: but yeah, I do like Dirty Harry an awful lot.
Laura: The Rock is my favorite island based prison.
Ryan: Mean, how many more of it? I mean, there's face off. Face off is one that's on an island. That's on an island. That prison is on an island. Yes.
Laura: As far as I'm aware, I jumped too far into that then. I don't want to don't put me on record of saying that. I was just joking. The Rock is really good, though. So regardless, it would probably be a decent choice.
Ryan: Right, okay.
Laura: But can I just throw out there who's in this movie, if you didn't already realize from Ryan's stellar impression, we have Clint Eastwood as the star of our film. He is Patrick McGuin. Fred Ward. Everyone will recognize Fred Ward. He's great. Jack Tibbo and who else? There's more people in this movie. Larry. Hankin Roberts. Blossom. Paul benjamin.
Ryan: Frank Ronzio. and obviously who plays Doc is Robert Blossom, who plays the old man in Home Alone.
Laura: The murderer.
Ryan: The murderer. He's a lovely man who's just trying to get reunited with his family as all good, John Hughes movies are apt to find that's lovely. Yes, there's always an undercurrent, there's a menace that you see from the surface, but then underneath, they're like a warm, soft sponge.
Laura: Well, through a child's eyes, everything is danger.
Ryan: Yes. Little old blossom.
Laura: Okay, so, Don Siegel directed this movie. And before I let you dive into.
Ryan: Don'T, forget to talk about Don Siegel.
Laura: My gosh. I'm going to throw the synopsis of this film at you. For people who haven't seen Escape from Alcatraz, it's based on or inspired by, probably based on a true story.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Synopsis. San Francisco Bay, january 18, 1960. Shush Frank Lee Morris is transferred to Alcatraz, a maximum security prison located on a rocky island. Although no one has ever managed to escape from here sorry, there doesn't matter. Frank and other inmates begin to carefully prepare an escape plan. And the tagline is, no one has ever escaped from Alcatraz, and no one ever will. Nice jokes on them.
Ryan: spoilers. And just obviously for the point, because it sounded like you said Don Siegel, because obviously there's a lot of birds on Alcatraz Island, as we know.
Laura: I assume that's why you picked.
Ryan: This location, don Siegel. What do you mean? Other than having it's the only location that's called Alcatraz, and it pends to, this true story, obviously.
Laura: Yeah, of course.
Ryan: Okay. Siegel went to the island because of the seagulls.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: To be with his brethren.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: I love Don Siegel. yeah, I'm glad that we're talking about Don Siegel. right. So let's just get right into this.
Ryan: So Don Siegel is an American film and TV director. The New York Times cited him as a director of tough, cynical, and forthright action adventure films whose taut plots centered on individualistic loners.
Laura: Did you say taught plots?
Ryan: Taught plots. he's very good at making really well crafted, kind of tightly put together, intelligent films. And he was more known as, like, a B movies director, which is kind of more what I would see as maybe he's, like a genre films director. But for the most part, he's made, like, action adventure films. and we'll get into some of that stuff in a second. But he started working at WB. Warner, brothers, ah, the film library there. He met a producer there. I can't remember the producer's name. And he rose to head, ah, of the montage department, directed montages, which saw him directing montages for the beginning of Casablanca and a whole bunch of, other movies I've seen.
Laura: Casablanca, yes.
Ryan: And by montage, I mean that's the credit. That's the title montage that you see at the beginning of all of these old movies from the so he's, consistently collaborated with Clint Eastwood, obviously. And he's also known, as the director of John Wayne's last movie, which was the Shootest.
Laura: The Shootest. I don't like John Wayne.
Ryan: Well, love him or hate, him, he's a male archetype, in cinema history. And certainly Clint Eastwood is definitely known as being one of those male archetypes you can't really get without John Wayne. You don't really have your Clint Eastwoods and obviously your other kind of male macho leads as we have them now. you know, Clint is also, he's a celebrated director. He's an actor and also a screenwriter. And Don Siegel cameos in, play Misty for me as well.
Laura: That movie I like. I like that movie a lot.
Ryan: That's a very good film.
Laura: That was the first Clint Eastwood film I liked. And I'll watch it again.
Ryan: Yes. But, Don Siegel, his filmography basically includes a lot of montages stuff. I'm not going to kind of list here. His filmography is huge. Absolutely massive. it also comprises of World War II documentary shorts, more shorts. And obviously the feature films, the feature films is obviously what we're going to focus on. But I've only picked out some select ones because there's more than 50. but in short, his shorts hitler Lives from 1945, and Star in the Night, also from 1945, I think were Oscars. They won the Oscars for best short subject. So that's what they used to call like the best shorts back then.
Laura: Hitler Lives.
Ryan: Hitler lives? Yes. well, it was from 1945, right?
Laura: Yeah, I clocked the year.
Ryan: But it was a documentary short. It wasn't a short film about the resurrection of Hitler.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Immediately after yeah, it was just immediately after Got. it but from the back of those, obviously, he moves into making feature films.
Ryan: I wonder how am I going to do this? Because the list I've put down of the films that I remember and I like and the list is really long. So I wonder if I can take one big deep breath and just get this out of the way.
Laura: Get your faves. Tell me your faves.
Ryan: Okay. One, two, and 1234. So we have the verdict from 1946 Night on Tonight from 1949, The Big Steel from 1949 Riot and Cell Block 11 19 54. That movie is really good, by the way. Invasion of the Body Snatchers from 1956. Everyone should know that one. It's a classic from the 50s. obviously it was reupdated for the 70s much, much later on. But I still think the original is better. The lineup from 1958 Edge of Eternity from 1959, Hell is for Heroes, 1962. That's a very good film. The Killers from 1964, Cougan's Bluff, 1963. And, the Beguiled from 1971. So when we get to The Beguiled, this is where I feel like we see a little bit more of, I guess this is where and I'll kind of list a bunch of other filmmakers. But when the kind of late sixty s and the early 70s start, this is where I feel like a lot of these filmmakers start to blossom. And Don Siegel has a lot more style and intent with a lot of the stuff that he makes at this point. So the Beguiled, very good movie from 71, Dirty Harry from 1971, which is one of my favorites. The shootist from 1976, which obviously was John Wayne's last movie. And then we have Escape from Alcatraz in 1979. And then, unfortunately, kind of after that, has only two other movies from the 80s, which is Rough Cut, 1980, and then Jinxed in 1982, which didn't do very well, but then he died of cancer. Jesus in the think.
Laura: So this is definitely towards the end of his career.
Ryan: Yes, he's had a very healthy career up to this point. And, when I talk about Don Siegel in the sense that when the start to come in, this is where you start to see the insertion of a lot of European aesthetics into cinnamon stuff at this moment. So I Kind of put Don Siegel Up there with the likes of Arthur Penn, Norman Jurisn, John Slessinger, Stuart Rosenberg, and Robert Rossen, who were all making more kind of, interesting movies. Come the into the think socially, things were happening in the American landscape, be it, the Civil Rights movement and obviously the Vietnam War, which we all know was influencing films and narratives and storytelling. Around about this time. And it was influencing art and particularly cinema around about this time. So I feel like there's this injection, of a social conscious into these movies, which kind of gives them a kind of more elevated sense of importance as well, I would say cool. But that's why I like Don Siegel and all these other, you know, I'm really happy to kind of talk. I like a lot of these films by this director and certainly a lot of the other films I've mentioned, from the list I just mentioned there, because obviously, Norman Jewishn, around about this time, has made In The Heat of the Night, which is also a fantastic movie with Sidney Poitier. That's a pretty good movie, and it's breaking barriers. and obviously, Robert Rossen went on to make The Hustler, which ended up having a sequel that Scorsese made, which was The Color of Money, which I.
Laura: Haven'T seen the original. I've only seen the color of money.
Ryan: It's one of my favorites. I really, really like that movie. And Stuart Ruzenberg also directed, Cool Hand Luke.
Laura: I have seen that again. Look at me.
Ryan: Yeah, well, there you go.
Laura: I've seen films that are older.
Ryan: With Paul Newman, another kind of rising star, another male archetype that, the audience could latch on to. But certainly, yes, very, very good, I think. I don't know.
Ryan: Personally, I like Escape from Alcatraz, and I like how simplistic it is. It's just very strong storytelling.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, we basically just watch people figure out how to Escape from Alcatraz. That's the movie.
Ryan: Some would say that maybe it's a little bit exhaustive in how much it shows you and the level of detail it goes into.
Laura: Would you like to know how to escape from Alcatraz?
Ryan: It pretty much shows you there you go. But, I do like the fact that within the framework of obviously being a true story, there is a fictionalization to some elements of the tale. We have, like, an antagonist in The Warden, who's played by Patrick Mcgubin. And, the thing I have about just this movie in general is it is effectively the blueprint of the quintessential prison movie. And certainly this is where you see a lot of the things you'll see in other prison movies, where naked shower scene. Naked shower scene where they're digging a hole in their cell, they're partitioning out the dust and the dirt that they've got from their cells out of their pockets, through their trouser leg, creating shivs, knife fights. Yes. Creating fake heads, doing all sorts.
Laura: Of stuff that's not common.
Ryan: Well, that's actually well, a lot of this movie is parodied in one of the Naked Gun movies with Leslie Nielsen.
Laura: This is true.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And oh, Frank Ward is in that. And I think he plays the same.
Ryan: He does in The Naked yes, he did. Well, that's the thing. I mean, they weren't going to get Clint Eastwood in to play any sort of minor role in that movie. He's far too huge to do that. But, yeah, a lot of the actors, probably, by the time Naked Gun is made, are, sadly passed away, probably. Or far too old to be doing anything.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: So that's why I would say yeah.
Ryan: let's get into this.
Laura: I want to skip a lot further back, because we recently went to Alcatraz. It was a birthday trip. Because who doesn't like going to prison for their birthday?
Ryan: We find ourselves here's the thing. Here's a weird thing. We do find ourselves when because we went to Philly not too long ago either. And we went to Eastern State. And it's gotten to the point where also, like, your brother works at a brewery, which is like, is it prison hill or something?
Laura: Yeah. In, I should it's fine. He works at a brewery.
Ryan: Yeah, he works at a brewery. And it's also prison themed. and, also it got to the point where we were in San Francisco and I realized not only was I wearing the shirt for the brewery, I also had glasses from Eastern State Penitentiary. And I bought myself an alcatraz hat.
Laura: Prison swag.
Ryan: And I'm just going around like, I'm celebrating the prison system, which is the worst, which is really not something horrible. The reason these prisons are obviously still standing and they're there is to basically show kind of how, I guess the prison system has gotten to such a degree, where it's like they're not celebrating it. But this is how society has gone to this point, really.
Laura: They've become national landmarks in terms of, architectural design or just simply because of what's occurred there. So they become these national landmarks, like Alcatraz is. And within these national landmarks, they typically will have exhibits showing how horrible the prison system in America has gotten since, I believe, the 80s. It's gotten worse and worse and worse, and we have more and more and more incarcerated people in the United States than we ever had before for minor, stupid crimes, and it needs to be fixed. But that has anyway, we went to Alcatraz.
Ryan: Yeah. If you go to either Alcatraz or Eastern State Penitentiary, they have exhaustive, examples and supplies, of what they mean in terms of statistics and stuff.
Laura: my favorite thing about going to Eastern State was that the audio tour was narrated by Steve Buscemi.
Ryan: Yes, it was. It was fantastic.
Laura: Amazing. And then Alcatraz had an audio tour, but it wasn't narrated by anyone that we knew.
Ryan: Ed Harris wasn't Ed Harris. Or Sean Hartnery. Yeah. Or Sean Connery. or Clint Eastwood. that's okay. It was fine. The audio tour was made it was spoken by one of the old prison guards.
Laura: They had interviews with other inmates and stuff. It was interesting, but I was hoping for a bashemi level audio tour.
Ryan: I was expecting at least some cachet, at least maybe I don't know. What if Nicolas Cage said something that.
Laura: Would have been great? Oh, my God, I would lose my mind.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, I don't even think, that would have panned out. Who's a lesser known character actor from The Rock? Maybe one of those you don't think.
Laura: Ed Harris would do it? Ed Harris?
Ryan: Ed Harris. Yeah. No. Well, your understanding of Ed Harris, the later he's going into his career, you're like, he's the hunk.
Laura: He's the the he's like the cougar hunk for all the older ladies in.
Ryan: The world, because what's that movie he's in with the one we saw recently? The Maggie Gyllenhaal movie?
Laura: The lost daughter.
Ryan: The lost daughter. I, keep on forgetting in the name of It.
Laura: That's a great, film.
Ryan: Yeah. He's in that just kind of winking his way through life. yes. Sold.
Laura: So I have some facts, because these are things I was interested in about Alcatraz that Detour didn't actually give me, I think. Why is it called Alcatraz? Well, it was first named La Isla de los Alcatres on a 1775 map by Juan Manuel de Ayala during the Spanish rule of California, which translates loosely to the island of the Pelicans.
Ryan: Okay. That makes sense.
Laura: So, yeah. let's see. The island was developed in the mid 19th century with facilities for a lighthouse, a military fortification, and a military prison. And in 1934, the island was converted into a federal prison. So it says in the film that the prison closed, less than a year later than the inmates escaped. Right.
Ryan: Yeah. It did say that in the movie. At the end of the movie, I.
Laura: Kind of just came up with facts about the actual prison escape. Would you like to hear them? Yeah, because pretty much the same.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: but it'll kind of go through the movie, basically.
Ryan: Yeah, because we're not going to talk about the movie, at nauseam. because I think that's exactly what it is. I think the film is fantastic. It's a really good, old fashioned, well told action adventure story about just basically a prison break. But also it has the cachet of being it's based on, obviously a true story. But the thing is for us to be like, I can funnel the whole process down into maybe just a couple of lines. And, the way that you see it and is that they make paper machete heads. they weld file heads onto spoon handles. they make life jackets. They make a raft. they make cover, like plaster Paris covers, for the grates and the holes so that they can swap out make it cover up the hole that they're making.
Laura: I'm going to tell you some stuff that I have written down, and then you can add to what I missed.
Ryan: Yeah. no, I think that's fine. You do that. I think that makes more sense.
Laura: On June 11, 1962, inmates Clarence Anglin, John Englin, and Frank Morris escaped. Sorry, hold on. Okay. So these three men tucked paper machete heads made out of soap, toothpaste, concrete, dust, and toilet paper, paint from the maintenance shop and hair from the barber shop floor is what they made these heads out of. They broke out of the main prison via the ventilation ducts and the unused utility corridor. They left the island aboard an improvised inflatable raft to Angel Island, which is 2 miles north.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: and let's see, it took six months. They widened out the ventilation ducts, that were just beneath their sinks, using discarded saw blades that they had found, metal spoons and an electric drill that they had improvised from the motor of a vacuum cleaner. And then they hid their work with painted cardboard. And they only worked during the Music Hour. So where they had this kind of ambiance music playing. So they would hide the noise that they were making.
Ryan: Yeah. If you go to Alcatraz, there is a part of the tour where they talk about the Music Hour. And the Music Hour is just a blast, a cacophony of just men trying to fiddle with instruments. And some people fucking hated it.
Laura: So there was a fourth inmate that was within the planning stage with them named Alan West. And in the movie, he's kind of fictionalized as Butts. As Charlie butts.
Ryan: Charlie Butts. Yeah. Larry HANKIN'S character. yes. I think he's important to be there. There is a cast of characters here played by obviously very well known character actors of the time, which I think are fundamentally quite important. This is something that you kind of miss, I think, from movies nowadays, is that I guess it's just a distinct lack of very interesting faces in films and stuff.
Laura: Like physically faces.
Ryan: Physically.
Laura: Physically looking interesting.
Ryan: Physically interesting people. Yeah. I think about the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and stuff. And I think about, well, would you have, that pot to grab from nowadays? And I don't know if you do.
Laura: I think there's a lot of interesting looking people nowadays that maybe you're just not thinking of. And I feel like these people have like big eyes on the side of their head. Like, what's her name? Anya Taylor Joy. She's an interesting looking person.
Ryan: Yeah, but I wouldn't put her in the remake of Escape from Aquatraz.
Laura: No, she's the first person I thought of or who's a little Scarsgard.
Ryan: I think I'm thinking about like good actors who look old. I think that's maybe what I'm trying to talk about here.
Laura: Well, that also is difficult because these people will always look older than us because they're in these older movies. There's just something that's going to click with our brains to think like, oh, they look older than they are.
Ryan: There's something about I don't know, there's.
Laura: Something about it could have been 25 years old.
Ryan: he might well have been. I don't know what I'm maybe trying to illustrate here. But it definitely feels like there's a distinct lat. I feel like there's a level of perfectionism people have to their personal appearance now that you didn't really have back in the, which is really kind of reactionary to the fact that you had a lot of movies coming out in the that were quite pristine. And the stars, the starlets, they all looked like they were perfect. and I feel like a lot of what kind of comes into the film industry later is know, I think Chinatown is a very good example of, they didn't allow their stars to look like they were hurt or their faces would be covered or anything like that. And Chinatown is a great example where you've got Jack Nicholson for a whole half of the movies that he gets his nose cut and he's wearing a bandage all over his face. And that just wouldn't happen before. so yeah, I don't know. I think I'm maybe onto something and it might just be more of a personal opinion, but, like, I feel like me personally, I want to see older faces. I want to see more interesting faces. Old looking young men are just interesting faces, really.
Laura: We're going to have to talk about this later. This is interesting to more Ed Harris in your life.
Ryan: There is not a single person in Escape from Alcatraz that seems out, of place.
Laura: Well, thank the casting guess I guess maybe we should follow the casting director and see what you find.
Ryan: Maybe I should maybe I should.
Laura: I want to talk a little bit more about Alan West, the one who didn't make what's what they don't mention in the film is that these men actually all knew each other before. They've all been in prison in different prisons before because they've mentioned, like, oh, where did you come from? Atlanta. Where are you from? Florida. They've all been incarcerated in different places because that's just kind of like a systemic issue.
Ryan: Well, they do cover that with the both they do.
Laura: They both know they yeah, but all these dudes know each other. Like, Butts knows them and stuff.
Ryan: Yeah. he's brand new when he comes into the prison.
Laura: I said before, he didn't make it out, so he was doing the same thing as everyone else. Like, he was getting under the sink and pulling out the cement from the wall. But he discovered that the cement that he'd used to kind of reinforce the crumbling concrete around the vent had hardened. Like, during the night, it narrowed the opening and it fixed the little grille in place so he, couldn't pull it off of the wall when the time came to escape.
Ryan: Right. Okay.
Laura: And so when he finally got the grill off and rewidened the hole, everyone had left without him, and so he just went back to his cell and went to sleep.
Ryan: Right. Yeah. Because in the movie, it's not illustrated in the movie. Well, there's no reason for him to stay behind, or at least it's not illustrated to us, as far as I'm aware, that he couldn't get the gray off. but certainly he's just sitting in his cell, like, kind of pounding at the air and not being able to go anywhere. So maybe it is maybe it's just that we only just watched the movie, and I can't remember I can't remember if that, even happened. But he does in the movie, he kicks it and he does get out. Unfortunately, he took far too long. I think the fact of the matter is that they do speak to him on their way out, and they go like, okay, it's time to him, but he does not signal anything is actually wrong. So I'm not too sure in the movie how that works. But that does make sense because he does do certain things in the film that would make you think that something's gone wrong and it wasn't his fault.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: but it's also insinuated that he's a bit cowardly and, he's not brave enough to take that, step to actually escape with the rest of them as well.
Laura: I have, like, three lines written about the actual film and then a bunch more about their escape and science surrounding their escape.
Ryan: I mean, a lot of my notes are about the actors and about the characters and stuff that they play. and obviously, for the scene that we'll be talking about soon, but no, you can talk about your history stuff.
Ryan: I think it's as interesting as the film because the film is in itself, it is an accurate yet entertaining retelling of the historical story.
Laura: So there have been many attempts and experiments to try to recreate the escape because it's fascinating, because to this day, people have no idea what happened. They don't know if they made it out. It's one of the world's great mysteries. Like the Malaysian flight documentary we watched.
Ryan: Yeah. Except if you watch that documentary, you're going to learn absolutely nothing.
Laura: Netflix documentaries are crap.
Ryan: I don't think Netflix documentaries are crap. I think they all follow a structure and that structure is awfully boring. That's all I'll say.
Laura: So there have been some scientists that tried to recreate the escape attempt using tidal flow data and replicas of the rafts and paddles. But they have failed.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: But in 2003, the Mythbusters successfully recreated the escape, but landed at the Marin Headlands instead of Angel Island.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: and that's something that people, talk about a lot when they talk about recreating that escape, saying that they don't think they could have made it to Angel Island because of the strength of the tides and currents.
Ryan: Ah, yeah, the currents would have been working against them as opposed to for them.
Laura: But they believe that they could have made it to another part, know, like the Marin Headlands and stuff. There's spots where they could have successfully.
Ryan: But you don't way there's no way for them to have known when they left what the currents would have been doing. And certainly from obviously going to San Francisco, the weather can be it's very windy and we've rode on that water, that stretch of water, it can be rough, it can be super rough. And it's obviously sandwiched between, obviously a kind of set of islands and things that it will get quite turbulent, depending on how strong the winds and stuff are that are kind of ripping through it. So, personally, to me, I would not like to spend at least 2 miles worth of swimming within that war. Because if anything cold, it's really cold, it's really choppy. And I just think overall, that 2 miles worth would probably feel at least like 15 to 20 miles by the time you were finished.
Laura: Another tidbit that I read is that Alcatraz was one of the few, if not the only prison that had heated showers. So you had warm water coming out of the showers, not as a treat, but because they didn't want people to get used to the cold water.
Ryan: Oh, right. Okay. I see. Wow. Human beings can be so fucking cruel. There's a lot of cruelty involved in, this retelling, and certainly you'll see a lot of man's cruelty to man. if you ever go to Alcatraz, which I wholeheartedly say is 100% worth, all of the human excrement that's on the streets of San. Francisco.
Laura: San Francisco. The city has a lot of problems. It is a beautiful city with a gorgeous architecture and beautiful views unlike anything I've ever really seen before.
Ryan: No.
Laura: But I've also never seen that amount of human feces on the street or no less than three people shitting into their own hands.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: In broad daylight.
Ryan: Yes. It, politically needs to get its act together. And it needs to either figure out a, living wage for the people to get themselves off the streets who are also working or not working, or get the people off the streets in general, so they're not freezing to death when the icy cold fog hits. at any time of the year, san Francisco is not the warmest place in the world. certainly when we were there, it was chilly.
Laura: What they say in the movie is the coldest winter they ever had was a summer in.
Ryan: the Alcatraz prison itself. Inside, because it's all brick. It's also freezing in there. Absolutely. Baltic in there. so, yeah, I wouldn't have enjoyed, the stay there too much. You would have felt the cold quite considerably.
Laura: I think I have more facts.
Ryan: Perfect.
Laura: So it's interesting because a lot of people, like I said, have studied this and studied the escape, trying to figure it out. And there's a lot of theories floating around as to whether or not these people survived. I mean, people have said, like, oh, I have a picture of the brothers in Brazil, and the mother of the brothers who escaped said that she got flowers on her birthday every year with no card.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Things like this. So there's a lot of theories going around. So many. But some things that I did find interesting is that a week after the 1962 escape, a sea freighter coming into San Francisco spotted a dead body floating in the Pacific Ocean wearing an Alcatraz prison uniform.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: also for years, it was believed that the escape raft was never found. However, a documentary from the History Channel, presented two recently discovered FBI documents a teletype and an internal memorandum stating that the raft was one of the items found on Angel Island. And both of those documents were created in the first few days after the escape by the FBI investigating team.
Ryan: Okay. yeah. Okay.
Laura: Well, that FBI investigation was officially concluded in 1979, just basically on the basis of circumstantial evidence and expert opinion that the men had drowned. But the US. Marshal Service case file is open and active. Frank Morris and the Anglin brothers are still on the wanted list.
Ryan: Got you. Yeah. I think without their bodies, you can only assume that they've survived unless there's obviously mitigating circumstances. I mean, did they ID the body that they found in the Pacific Ocean that you just mentioned there?
Laura: No. And other bodies had been found in the water? that ships never what's? Ah, the word am documented that they just noticed, like, oh, there's a body. You know, people also jump off the Golden Gate Bridge.
Ryan: They do? yeah. If they're dressed as inmates, then certainly that's slightly different. Yes. There is obviously a risk that, yes, there are people who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. We, thankfully never saw anything like that. But there's also that body of water. People are sailing.
Ryan: They're doing all sorts of things there, but yeah, it quite ah, tumultuous. Those waters can be fierce. oh, yeah. So it doesn't surprise me. But, you know what I think?
Laura: What do you think?
Ryan: I think they got away.
Laura: Yeah, it's nice to think that.
Ryan: I like to think that. I think it's a little bit more romantic. Now, here's the thing. Obviously, I like the idea that, Fred Ward and Jack Tabo and Clint Eastwood got away. I like that idea. And they're, like, sipping margaritas in Mexico and stuff like that. But obviously, in the scope of reality and in history of things like that, the people who were going to Alcatraz were very much a kind of special breed of person. Al Capone was in Alcatraz, a lot of very high, profile criminals were at know, from rapists, the murderers and stuff. Like, you know, there are people who do deserve to be there now, under the conditions. Do we feel like, in terms of the scope of humanity, certainly from what we saw and stuff like that? Yeah, there is a level of it, that's inhumane. I think things are better than they are. I mean, Alcatraz isn't an open prison anymore, for starters.
Laura: Right. But that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how people were treated inside. That's not why it closed down. It closed down because it was too expensive to run.
Ryan: Yeah, that's true. It was too expensive to, run. It was like falling apart.
Laura: Yeah. The saltwater over the years had greatly diminished the integrity of the building, and it cost twice as much to keep the prisoners there than it did other places.
Ryan: I see.
Laura: That's why it closed down. It was a financial decision, not because people were treated like shit. Inmates, are treated like shit regardless, because the prison system is an atrocity.
Ryan: I'm very sorry.
Laura: So out of the 36 inmates who staged 14 escape attempts over the 29 years that Alcatraz served as a federal penitentiary, 23 were recaptured, six were shot and killed, two drowned, and five, including our boys, were listed as missing or drowned.
Ryan: Okay. Not too no, there was a reason why. Yeah. It becomes this kind of mythical thing, like this unicorn, like Alcatraz, like the the impenetrable fortress that it was to the point where, obviously, Sean Connery's character in The Rock, he's the only one that's escaped and survived. And it's like, it's top secrets. Like, this man doesn't exist. He's like the man you hide away. He's our government secret, all this sort of stuff. And, I was looking at the, hold on two second. I was actually looking at who would I like to hear the audio tour from that wasn't like Sean Connery, but wasn't an Ed Harris, but kind of under that. But what about David Morse? I would listen to an audio tour from him. He's got a lovely voice.
Laura: Okay. That doesn't excite me as much as Ed Harris or Nicolas Cage.
Ryan: Does John Spencer excite?
Laura: No, no. I mean, this became a, topic of conversation on the Internet when we went to San Francisco because everyone was asking or stating that they wanted Phil Hartman as the audio tour guide.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Like a post mortem Phil Hartman.
Ryan: All right. Okay. Yeah, I guess that would be cool.
Laura: You got plenty of audio to work with. You could just feed it together. Really creepy.
Ryan: Like yeah. Well, yeah, certainly the way that, artificial intelligence and stuff is going around, they'll just resurrect anyone from the grave if they want to.
Laura: I'd still take Harris. Not hard. Ed Harris would probably do it. Give me the choice. Give me the choice. Like, can I listen to the audio tour from Ed Harris or from the prison guard?
Ryan: I mean, it would probably be Ed Harris.
Laura: Of course it would.
Ryan: Yeah. As opposed to, like, getting it from the horse's mouth. Ed Harris, obviously, would be the choice for entertainment value only.
Ryan: here's the thing. Was Frank Morris known as, like, Mr. One Liner? Because that's effectively what Clint Eastwood's doing in this movie. Like, all the way throughout. He's like the one line master.
Laura: From what I read, the director kind of wanted to focus more on the event and the people surrounding the event than just have it be a Clint Eastwood vehicle.
Ryan: So that's why he feels like a Clint Eastwood vehicle.
Laura: So he's just kind of chilling. Making people eat soap in the shower.
Ryan: That's a lot of, like, Clint. I mean, if you like Clint Eastwood, that's fine. There's a lot of Clint Eastwoodisms in it. And there's a bit where he discovers that he can use because he stole the nail file from the warden's office. He can chip away at the rock because it's degrading and stuff like that. And just before the guard comes back, he's sitting back down. He's back to reading his Bible, and he's got the nail file in his hand and he's like, are you still reading that Bible? And Clint just goes, oh, yes. Open all sorts of new doors. And then he hides the nail file in the Bible. There's going to be a lot of that. Well, hopefully not a lot. I'm not going to do my Clint Eastwood impression, like, all the way through. But, he does end up being like Mr. Oneliner. There is that bit in the shower. There's obviously there's a shower scene and.
Laura: We'Re all just moving.
Ryan: We're like, oh my god. There's going to be all these naked men. And there are naked men. You see a lot of butts and stuff, but you don't really see much else.
Laura: But this is where see a dingle dangle through the back of someone's legs. Yes, in that shower scene. But not a lot of no full frontal, nudity. But a dingle dangle from behind.
Ryan: Well, because we get introduced to Wolf, who's played by Bruce M. Fisher. when it's Clint Eastwood's first time in the cafeteria. and you look over and Wolf's like dangling a piece of pasta like a spaghetti string.
Laura: He's being all sexy.
Ryan: He's trying to be all sexy because he wants Clint to be his bit of pudding. That's what he's looking for.
Laura: He needs that Eastwood pudding.
Ryan: He needs that in the he gets him in the shower. I do like that bit where he's like staring at him when he's trying to eat. And Clint just puts his fork down because he's just like, not doing this. M. I'm going to eat this food. He's just not going to deal with this homosexuality. He really kind of puts him off his dinner.
Laura: That dude looks like his name's Mark Holton. He plays Francis in the peewee movies.
Ryan: Who's?
Laura: that and he's in the Teen Wolf.
Ryan: He's in Teen Wolf.
Laura: That guy he looks like this guy I'm showing. It's a it's not a visual medium they're working on. But if you look up the guy from Teen Wolf.
Ryan: Okay, so it's the big boy from Teen Wolf.
Laura: The first Teen he's in the peewee movies.
Ryan: He's a bad guy.
Laura: He plays John Wayne Gacy.
Ryan: Yeah, but Wolf in this movie is called by a guy called Bruce M. Fisher.
Laura: I know, but they look alike.
Ryan: All right. Okay.
Laura: They have a similar vibe.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Like, if I saw either of them in the shower asking to take my pudding, I'd be just as concerned.
Ryan: Well, why don't you show me what you yeah. Yeah. He does things like that and then he just beats the fuck out of them.
Laura: So how many times do you think that Wolf lit that match before Clint Eastwood looked over?
Ryan: I forgot he did that.
Laura: And Wolf holds this match that's been.
Ryan: Struck literally burning the top of his it's so funny.
Laura: I just can imagine that guy just sitting in the canteen.
Ryan: It's a fantastic moment. I'm not going to lie. It's like that. well, I don't know if anyone's seen, what's that movie is. It Cure. the Koyoshi Kurosawa movie. Cure.
Laura: Yes, I have seen that.
Ryan: The guy lights the flame with the lighter. And then that's like the trigger for this weird thing. I'm still to finish it. I was very tired when we watched that movie. I still have to finish it. But I love his stuff because he did like pulse and things. That's what made me think of it. Yeah. What's that?
Laura: It's crazy.
Ryan: All right, good.
Laura: I liked it a lot. but yes, I have down here wolf looking for some pudding. Eat the soap, Wolf. And then the dingle slip. So that's all I wrote down, the really important shit. Yeah, I mean, I wrote down stuff about the penis scene, but I was mostly excited because when we watched it again, it was after we'd been to Alcatraz. So I was like, welcome down Broadway.
Ryan: I'm tempted to yeah. Because we now have a level of context for the location and just the place in general and kind of just how fucked it is.
Ryan: I wanted to talk about some of the characters we mentioned, Wolf. there's Litmus, who obviously is spelt the same way as the paper that's played by, ah, Frank Ronzio. And he's like I don't know. He called himself Litmus because when he gets cold, he turns blue. And when he gets hot, he turns red. And he thought that was a really funny joke. And he also has a little mouse that he feeds pasta.
Laura: So cute.
Ryan: He has a little mouse that he brings in the shower. It's really nice. it sounds gross when you say it like that, but well, he has a little mouse. Yeah, well, you've seen the Green Mile. It's like that. It's just like that, pretty much. Except the mouse doesn't live to be immortal. obviously we meet the warden, Patrick Mcgubin. And, obviously he says, like, oh, Alcatraz. It's the only prison that where prisoners are on their own. I think that's a great idea. If I ever had to go to prison, I don't want to share, like, in a funk.
Laura: Because you have a higher instance of sexual abuse when you're in the same cell, I would imagine. I don't know the stats on that. I don't know if the sexual abuse happens mostly in the shower right. Or in your cell, but I would rather be alone in the cell. But you're probably only out of that cell for maybe a couple of hours.
Ryan: A day is I mean, honestly.
Laura: And they don't let you talk. I mean, I have a little bit of information about that finger cutting scene in the film oh, yeah.
Ryan: With Blossom.
Laura: Because that's based on true events.
Ryan: Yes. I think yeah. Again, it's unfortunate to say, but yes, sexual assault is definitely one of the staples of, the prison movie. We've seen it in almost every single one. other than maybe the Green Mile? Green Mile is slightly different because it's about death row. But, you definitely see that in The Shawshank Redemption. Tim Robbins, little Tim Robbins trying to fend off people from his booty hole.
Laura: Yeah, it's in Fortress, that 50 Cent movie. We did get Rich or die trying.
Ryan: Yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. You can't seem to escape it. But anyway, either way, and this was another thing that I found. Obviously, we talked about, like Charlie Butts and stuff. He kind of shows up. And obviously we talk about Doc and that horrible moment where his painting privileges are basically taken away from Sad. And he cuts off his fucking fingers with a hatchet in the woodshop. Class. and yeah, you kind of wonder, obviously, with the warden and the warden's intent and all these other things. And there's this mild symbolism with the chrysanthemums, I think is what they are. And there's like flowers and stuff on the island. And, he's just like, well, there's nothing going to grow. Ah think I think Patrick Mcgoobin's got a fantastic fucking voice. But certainly, yes, he is evil for evil's sake. And certainly he is the main antagonist. That kind of makes you feel a little bit more sympathy towards the prisoners. But I also feel like he's maybe a little bit fictitious as well. I don't feel like maybe that's as bad I think the time itself is bad enough. certainly I think of the wardens doing things like that. Then I don't know.
Laura: he was an unnamed warden in the film. And he mentions his predecessors. And he actually names who was the actual warden at the time of the escape. But the creators of the film didn't want to name the warden that same name for legal reasons.
Ryan: Yeah, it makes sense that he's not yeah. They don't insinuate that that's the reason why they escaped. It's because of his lax level of control.
Ryan: but we also get to meet English, who's played by Paul Benjamin, who, he's a black man. he is indeed. And there's a feeling in the yard. We went in the yard as well, but we didn't get to climb the steps. And certainly the steps are a literal hierarchy of, I guess, like the level of importance. So the white inmates tend to stick to the main field. There's also a baseball field in the yard, which we saw. And they're playing games and painting all these other sorts of things. And then obviously, the black inmates are congregating on the steps. And they are on the steps. And I guess their level of authority. And English is the one who's at the top of the steps. And there's a few end bombs getting dropped here and there over the course of the movie. I mean, Danny Glover's in the movie.
Laura: Danny Glover is in this film. This is Danny Glover's film debut.
Ryan: Yes. But they dubbed him.
Laura: You wouldn't know it's him. You can barely see him. And he's dubbed.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: That's annoying.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, it's the back of his head.
Laura: And he drops it's the front of his head. Because Clint Eastwood rolls by with the library cart and he asks if he wants anything. And Danny Glover's. Dub says where's English? And then, yeah, a bunch of,
Ryan: N bombs are dropped. Yeah. Which we're not going to I mean, Clint even drops an end bomb himself. certainly in this time, certainly in the 70s, he's dropping all kinds of racial slurs, certainly in Dirty Harry, as well. But at the same time, ah, yeah, it's what it is.
Ryan: But I bring this up because there was a large part of the tour which talked about, the separation of races and stuff. The black people were kept separate from the white people to stop them from, I guess, intermingling, so to speak, and prevent fights in warring and that sort of thing. But then, obviously, after a certain period of time, which is obviously this part that's depicted in the movie, is that they would mix the races, and it was purely because they just couldn't separate them anymore, purely because there wasn't enough cells and there was too many people and stuff. So they started to just intermingle them. And then also, they talk about D block. And D block is where solitary confinement is mostly kept, and that's where people tend to go a little bit loopy because it's dark, it's secluded, it's incredibly lonely. The cells are a little bit bigger. But you do kind of find that there's no sense of where you are. But also, I don't know if it was D block, but I think it might have been one of the other blocks just off Broadway and stuff, where the sun came in from the windows. That was kind of like prime real estate in the prison as well. D block was always dark and it was always confined. So you'd find that people kind of went a little bit loopy there. and obviously, there's a quintessential prison movie. So you end up in solitary confinement for reasons unknown, and you're just kind of in there. and you get to see how kind of cruel and horrible it is. And we got to walk into those cells.
Laura: Oh, we had the great pleasure of walking into solitary confinement cells. And you get to feel how dark it is and how horrible and lonely.
Ryan: Yeah, it sucks. It sucks. I guess you're shown the entire experience so that you're like, Yay, they escaped.
Laura: Yeah. There's a lot of research done on solitary and what it can do to people and how absolutely inhumane it is.
Ryan: Yes.
Ryan: So leading into the dick scene,
Laura: The beginning of the film, it's basically the seven minutes movie. The film.
Ryan: Yeah. So basically, without kind of going into too much detail, anyway, the opening of the movie, which is effectively like the title sequence, is just this kind of exhaustive detail to detail of him getting on a boat. There's a cage in the boat, and he's getting two alcatraz, basically. And it's that kind of extension. and, he's processed, he strips down, he's tested by the doctor. He's kind of like manhandled a little bit. And then what we see is it's nighttime. It's dark. It's also raining. It's a storm outside. The camera tilts down, looking down onto Broadway. And it's a long shot.
Laura: And Broadway is that main strip of cells down the middle of the cell block.
Ryan: It's the most instantly recognizable corridor in Alcatraz. Because, you know, because there's a big clock at the end of it.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: and basically it's a naked Clint Eastwood being escorted down the hallway, by two guards.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: And he's totally naked. and we know this because obviously they've stripped him down. He's not holding his clothes. His clothes are in his cell. So that's the reason why he's naked. He has to be escorted to his cell to get his clothes.
Laura: Yeah. And that happens. I mean, that's just something that happened to prisoners when they got to Alcatraz. You got paraded down Broadway naked. And usually Wolf likes that, checking out his pudding.
Ryan: This is the only other thing as well where well, I don't know if Wolf's in that secting. and he might have been in one of the other areas or whatever because he's a big, bad rapy guy. but, yeah, there's also what, was I going to say?
Laura: I don't know. Well, you said, you know, he's naked because his clothes are in the cell. But also there's a really long shot from behind Eastwood's.
Ryan: This is a prison movie, but there's also kind of other extensions to it. But you saw in, Shawshank Redemption, things like that. They'll clean them and then they'll delouse them. So obviously they're not bringing in bugs and infestation into the prison to infest everybody else. That's there. That's all I was going to bring up.
Laura: Oh, they checked his hair though.
Ryan: Yes. He doesn't have knits or anything because you don't want that fucking spreading like wildfire.
Laura: Obviously clean boy. He's a nice clean boy.
Ryan: Yeah, he is. But, yeah, you see him walking down and because of the way, what would you call him? The skylights, basically m. there's a sectioned off parts where the lamps and things light. So he's in darkness, then he's in brightness. And then obviously that's when you see everything again. It's a long shot. So you're not getting a distinct amount of detail. But he's 100% naked. Yeah, you can't get away from that. And then he's back in the darkness again as he's continuing to walk down the corridor. But that's the only shot. The other shots are, from waist up.
Laura: It's a very interesting shot to really show how kind of big but confined that space is and how intimidating that whole area is and how shitty his life is going to be in prison.
Ryan: It's also a parade as well. it's an example of the dehumanization that's rife, obviously within the prison.
Laura: Oh, yeah. You're less than human. You don't even wear clothes because you're an animal.
Ryan: Yes. So it's a humiliation tactic. It's to kind of bring them down a level. Bring them down a peg. I don't know.
Ryan: There's also a lot like in this opening part of the movie as well, is that Clint Eastwood also looks kind of deceptively sleepy for some reason or another. It's been a long mean it might.
Laura: Have been that he got transferred from Atlanta. It's a long ways away.
Ryan: Holy shit. Crazy.
Laura: Coast to coast.
Ryan: Coast to coast. yes. But, I do love it. He's stone faced as well. And he does look a little bit tired. He is a little bit sleepy. But he's, like stone faced, obviously, because that's what Clint does, right? He doesn't show any emotion. And then the door closes and then the card goes, welcome to Alcatraz. And then a lightning strike goes.
Laura: Fucking mic drop on that shit.
Ryan: Fucking awesome. that was great.
Ryan: And then we're into the movie.
Laura: Off to the races.
Ryan: Yeah. A good old tactical lightning strike.
Laura: I'm surprised that the lightning didn't blast and that just had the titles, like, pop up in Bright Red or something.
Ryan: Yeah, it came out of his mouth. Open his mouth and just went or.
Laura: Each lightning bolt put each of the letter and Escape from Alcatraz.
Ryan: And it's like, what's that Prison Break movie with Kurt? Russell and Sliced alone. What's that movie called?
Laura: Escape Plan.
Ryan: Is it? Yeah, like that.
Laura: Except is that Kurt Russell or is that Arnold?
Ryan: I think there's Kurt Russell. No, it's Tango, and Cash in it.
Laura: Oh, well, there's also escape plan. And that I think, has Stallone and Arnold in it.
Ryan: I think it's Tango and Cash maybe with curtain sliced cops in that movie, right? Is it? I thought they were in a prison together. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. But yeah, maybe mixing up. I think I've got face off in there. I've got Tango and Cash in there. I've got Demolition Man in like I've also got Escape Plan in like I'm getting all kind of confused and confuddled.
Laura: Well, escape plan is Arnold and stallone.
Ryan: Okay. Because there's a few of those. Because there's another one with stone cold Steve Austin. Right. What's that one called? The Condemned.
Laura: Probably.
Ryan: Is that something else that's on a different tier?
Laura: Yeah, tango and Cash is a cop movie. Why am I getting this better than you? You're better at this than I am.
Ryan: Well, I mean, yeah, but I got a little bit of ah, a brain marshmallow. So it's like in my head. And it's like at least six different films became one film in my head.
Laura: Oh, I didn't even get to say the thing about the fingers. The part where Doc cuts off his own fingers with the hatchet. Okay, so that actually happened in 1937 where an inmate named Ruth Persful took an axe, cut off four fingers from his left hand due to the strict silence that the warden had enforced throughout the block so there could make no noise and it was like, six months of no noise. He was like, I'm, freaking out right now. And he got transferred out of prison because he couldn't handle it anymore.
Ryan: Yeah, I think that's wild. That's kind of wild. Like, how far they're kind of pushed to there.
Laura: do I have time? And we can cut it out, but I have some information that I was interested about, about kind of the Native American occupation of Alcatraz has nothing to do with the film.
Ryan: I think it's interesting if you can keep it short. That's a big part of the tour.
Laura: Yeah, I just liked that part of the Alcatraz tour. So in November 1969, the island was occupied for more than 19 months by a group of Native Americans who were primarily from San Francisco, who were later joined by other people from other parts of the country, who were just kind of part of a wave of activists organizing public protests, across the United States in the 70s. They were obviously protesting a lot of different things, including especially the Indian termination policy, which was meant to have native people as simulate into American society and kind of get out of the reservations and utilize more of American systems, health care, stuff like that. and they were also asking for reparations, and they wanted to make Alcatraz Island into, like, an education and cultural center. So they had occupied the island to do these type of things, but it obviously didn't last. 19 months passed, and it ended on June 11, 1971. Richard Nixon was the president, and he rescinded the Indian termination policy and enacted a policy of self determination.
Ryan: Right. That's better. Slightly better. yeah, no, I think that's an interesting part of the tour. And certainly if you go to Alcatraz now, certainly if you're a keen, bird watcher, because it's a bird sanctuary, it's where birds go to nest. and also there's a garden there as well. It's also maintained by the staff.
Laura: Absolutely. There's a lot of birds there. It's kind of overrun by birds, which makes sense why it was called.
Ryan: yeah. If you watch either one of our videos that we took, at San Francisco Alcatraz, then, you'll just notice it's just peppered with nothing but boys of Dolls just, like, screaming at you. Yeah. And, there's also geese there as well, which obviously geese they're best avoided at all costs. You don't want to fuck with geese.
Laura: Oh, yeah. No, definitely not. Trying to find when did I already say when Alcatraz closed?
Ryan: Well, this was what, 19 61. 62.
Laura: It closed in 63.
Ryan: Okay. I just wanted to make sure we got out there. I don't think we need to inform the listeners of everything historically with Alcatraz.
Laura: I find it very interesting. and Alcatraz was designated as a National Historic Landmark in 1986.
Ryan: Perfect.
Ryan: ratings, I think. Let's get on to the. Ratings.
Laura: I'll go first. So in terms of this is so.
Ryan: Hard, visibility in context, okay?
Laura: Because visibility is like a near zero. It's like a 0.5.
Ryan: It's really far away.
Laura: You can tell that sometimes we reach a bit in terms of full frontal male nudity because we want to talk about certain films.
Ryan: It's kind of like, can't stop the music, but it's also a thing where it's like it's almost immune to the still frame analysis. You kind of have to watch it in motion like a GIF. And you're like, oh, exactly. I can see it there.
Laura: It's absolutely there. And it is, like a five star context for what it is. Yes, they absolutely could have gone a bit further. Held it for a bit longer, held it while he walked through the lights to kind of hold on that kind of loneliness and that bit of kind of despair that anyone would go through walking through this situation. So if they held it a bit longer, I think it would have been slightly more impactful, potentially.
Ryan: I feel like it's fine for what it is. because we covered like, The Terminator and stuff like that. I would say the Terminator has a very similar shot to that.
Laura: it's a lot closer up, though.
Ryan: It's a little bit closer, but it's fairly in the dark. Like, it's pretty much in the dark. and it only really kind of works in motion as well. but certainly with this one, this is kind of weird, I kind of refer to it as like, it's the hero shot. It's like your hero introduction of him coming into this situation. And then the course of the movie is him blossoming into what he becomes. But we already know from certainly there's little nitbits of information that's coming. He's an incredibly smart man and he's an escape. You know, I think Clint does his best to maintain, this level of mechismo that he's known for while also being completely naked.
Laura: No, he pulls that off very well. And I think it is great and it works really, really well. I just think for the audience, in terms of kind of showing how horrible that whole process is, it's not like hunger.
Ryan: Hunger is a far more extreme example, probably.
Laura: Oh, my gosh. That's a prison movie, too. Yeah, we've done way more than three.
Ryan: That's an unflinching kind of film. But obviously with this, it's a little bit more of a yeah, I like the Term hero shot. I think that's kind of more what it's what it kind of pertains to. Certainly in the context of, like, this is a 1970s action movie, adventure movie.
Laura: I totally agree. I think I started off at a I'm going to give it like a because you have to add in context in there. But the visibility is so, so low. So I'm going to give like a one and a half. But I love the context, I could have used it a little bit more. I think that it works perfectly in that scene. And I think that without it would be a real detriment to that scene. In particular, you need to see the.
Ryan: Scale of it all. And I feel like it's unavoidable at that point. You're going to have to show something.
Laura: It m would be absolutely weak to not have that shot in there. And again, I do think it could have gone on a little bit longer. I mean, you still wouldn't have seen too much. I don't know if that's whose choice that was. If it was maybe Clint Eastwood going like, I don't want my dick in the bright light, or if it was just like it just worked better in the editing room that way.
Ryan: I think it's a conversation between him and Don Siegel. Don Siegel knows how to use his shots well. Like, he knows how to kind of get the most amount out of the shots that he takes. which is why you'll see in quite a few of his movies, like, shots that you feel are maybe a little bit unconventional. And certainly there's a lot of weird kind of handheld shots that you're like, oh, they look a little bit clumsy, but they help in telling the story. So that's kind of what I kind of see this shot as, is that it's good for where it is, and I think it's essential for where it is. So I agree with you. Probably with the same ranking, whichever one you're going to give it, i,
Laura: Give it one and a half.
Ryan: So I'd probably give it a little bit more like a two or something. It's like, maybe more straighter down the middle as opposed to on that low end. But, yeah, I think it's maybe closer to a two.
Laura: Okay. in terms of the movie, I gave it a three and a half, which I feel might be lower than.
Ryan: You, but, mine's three and a half as well. It's a little too long, and I feel like it's a little bit exhaustive with each of the steps. But the thing is that what it does is it does build in a lot of because of its length, it builds in quite a fair amount of tension into the story. Because certainly there's things that happen, and it's like, oh, my God, is he going to get found out here? Is he going to get found out there? There's a lot of that kind of deliberately woven into the story to kind of make it a little bit more engaging.
Laura: I agree. I mean, there's moments that room is so small to where on the small side of the cell, clint Eastwood's all scrunched up. He can put his legs up against the wall. So imagine just being on the floor and trying to just dig out a wall and having to I don't know that whole process. And when guards are coming down the hallway, it's very scary.
Ryan: Yeah. I do think that they pry out as much tension out of it. And I think the story is incredibly strong.
Laura: very cool.
Ryan: Yeah. It's obvious that I think Don Siegel's wanted to stick very closely to the history and the actual truth in the story. But certainly he's understanding that he has to make an entertaining movie, which is why, obviously, Clint is Clint and Clint does Clint. And it's a bit of a one liner fest, and it's a tiny bit tiresome at points. and I don't dislike Clint Eastwood. I just think that it turns into the Clint Eastwood show, which I think is kind of which is kind of a shame. But to me, it's a tiny bit just too long. But it's just a really good adventure film that anyone could probably, same it's not in the same vein as, like, what's that John Houston movie?
Ryan: Michael Caine and Sean Connery. It was like the king. What was it called?
Laura: Oh, it's not the man who would be king, is it? No, it's not.
Ryan: Oh, it is the man who would be king.
Laura: Oh, my God.
Ryan: Yeah, it is that one.
Laura: There you go.
Ryan: Yeah. It's not on the level of that level of adventure, but it's, Zardas.
Laura: It's nowhere near the Zardas level, you guys. But that's cool. I did like this movie. I was surprised that I liked it. I don't love it. I've seen it more times than I probably need to at this point. But I was really excited to turn on that movie and see a penis. Not what I was expecting at all. And I think it really added to the film just that little moment. It's great. It works. I enjoyed it. So you can add a second Clint Eastwood movie to the list of Clint Eastwood movies that I will tolerate.
Ryan: Wow. What's the other one that you'll tolerate?
Laura: Play Misty for me.
Ryan: Oh, that was every which way but loose.
Laura: I haven't seen it.
Ryan: Right. Clyde, it's got the monkey. Yeah. Ah, that movie's good. That's an orangutan. Yeah, that's an orangutan in that movie.
Laura: That sounds insane. I don't know how I feel about.
Ryan: That truck with a giant ape.
Laura: There are times where you're just going to have to force me to watch these things. And maybe you'll go and you know, I won't turn something down. If you put on a film, I'm gonna sit and watch it. I don't care. I love watching movies, so it doesn't matter. And so that's, good for you.
Ryan: Well, did you not like Dirty Harry when we watched it?
Laura: Dirty Harry was fine.
Ryan: Yeah. Okay. I like Dirty Harry.
Laura: I forgot that I also saw that movie.
Ryan: Dirty Harry's. Great. M it's really good. I don't know. Do you think Clint Eastwood has made better films or he starred in better films.
Laura: I don't know if I've seen what's a film of. Ah, his that he's directed that I've seen.
Ryan: I mean, Play Misty for me is.
Laura: One he did that one. Yeah, I like that one.
Ryan: A, know, more like he did Mystic River.
Laura: I haven't seen it.
Ryan: He did the unforgiven.
Laura: haven't seen it.
Ryan: What's that drama that you'd like? What's it called again?
Laura: There's one where he goes, get off my lawn, kiddos.
Ryan: Oh, Gran Torino.
Laura: I haven't seen that.
Ryan: No, I've not seen that either. that's not the one I'm thinking of. I don't know. Just say something if we get to the end.
Laura: I've seen Steel Magnolias.
Ryan: Yeah. I don't know. Just keep on talking just because we're going to have it as this was the fifth and final Madison County.
Laura: Oh my god.
Ryan: I did watch that movie in the Line of Fire.
Laura: I got to tell you. Guess what? Newsflash didn't like that movie very.
Ryan: Oh, okay.
Laura: I remember visiting my grandparents and they made me stay home because they were going to go watch Bridges of Madison County. And they thought it was going to be too sexy for a child. So they did not let me go see it. Yeah, but I happened to be in that same county where the bridges are. So I remember being on a when I was doing field work at my old archaeology job. I remember driving through there and looking at the map and it going, bridge from Bridges of Madison County. I went, holy shit. But it was too far away from the airport.
Ryan: So I'm going to make the argument that I think he starred in better films than he's made. Yeah. Because I'm seeing some stuff in here. so the ones that we really like, obviously are Play Misty for me. I honestly think that, I like the Outlaw Josie Wales. I think that film's really good. Mystic River, obviously, I think is fantastic. And he also made a film in here called Bird, which is about, the blues singer that's ah, Forrest Whitaker. That movie is phenomenal.
Laura: well, great.
Ryan: But yeah, the rest of them I'm like. Okay, that's fine. That's okay.
Laura: Well, wonderful. I'm so glad we got to do this. I cannot wait since when this comes out. You'll already have had a week full of our videos and pictures from our trip to Alcatraz. And I hope that you enjoy them and cannot say enough that y'all need to go visit Alcatraz but then leave San Francisco as quickly as possible. There's some good pizza there, though. And burritos actually hit us up if you want to know. Good burrito spots, I got you. And you got anything else to put out there, Ryan, before we close up this prison?
Ryan: No, I don't think I'll ever go back to San Francisco.
Laura: Cool.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Well, thank you guys so much for joining us on this historical journey of the prison break of Alcatraz for the most part and a tiny bit about Eastwood's penis. And we will see you next time. Thank you so much. And coming to you from cell block.
Ryan: D block from that d, that.
Laura: Big d block block pudding. I have been Laura.
Ryan: Why didn't you show me what you can do?
Laura: And he's been Clint.
Ryan: I have been Clint just a couple of times. Punk.
Laura: See you later, punk.