It's all a bit close. It's all a bit tight. It's all a bit intimate. This film is called INTIMACY so it all makes sense.
Starring Mark Rylance, Kerry Fox, and Timothy Spall, directed by Patrice Chéreau, this film is about the silent sexual encounters of two people amidst the lonely landscape of a dark-set urban London. This is quite a 'big' entry in the pantheon of our OTB legacy, and we take a slightly different tact with this one. It comes out that we quite like this one even if people don't. Isn't that the way it goes though?
This is episode 99 as well. That's kinda great, isn't it? Episode 100 is next up (obviously).
Wednesday Lovers: A Deep Dive into 'Intimacy'
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE the podcast that, um, uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura and I am joined by my Wednesday lover, Ryan.
Ryan: This is usually how people in the UK fall in love. They just sit around in their fucking squat and they just wait for women to come around.
Laura: It worked out for him in the 2001. I'mnna put quotes around erotic drama intimacy. Directed by Patrice Chereau, starring Carrie Fox, Mark Rylance, Susannah Harker. To a point. And the one and only Timothy Spall.
Ryan: What do we do? All these secrets and lies.
Laura: I'm so glad you said that. Uh, yeah, there are a lot of secrets and lies hidden within this film.
Ryan: There's more. Yeah, there's more. Yeah, there's more damning secrets and lies in this. In this film. Um, pur. Sp. He gets the spall out, though. I like it. Goes full spall.
Laura: He does go full spall. He's a real treat in a treasure, as always. And the synopsis from this film that I pulled from letterboxed, as always, is failed musician J abandoned his family and now earns a living as a head bartender in a trendy London pub. Every Wednesday afternoon, a woman comes to his house for graphic, almost wordless sex. One day, Jay follows her and learns about her. This eventually disrupts their relationship. And, uh, the tagline is, every Wednesday, she meets him once per week.
Ryan: Very literal.
Laura: I actually learned more about the film and the characters based on that synopsis than I did from the film. Because you don't know. You never find out why these people know each other. Yeah, but you know that they.
Ryan: That's something I particularly like about the film, though.
Laura: I do like that.
Ryan: Um, you don't necessarily, necessarily actually need to know about every single thing that happened.
Laura: Um, you don't get the meat. Cute. You just get the.
Ryan: No, no, you get the meat. The meat. Fuck.
Laura: No, you get the hog. And you don't need anything else.
Ryan: Yeah, hashag conceal the hog. Um, honestly, I mean, this is. Well, here's the thing. I think we'glossing over it and we went into it too fast. This is episode 99 of our podcast.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: Yeah, more like episode 69. You know, I mean, like.
Laura: Yeah, yeah.
Ryan: Do you know what episode 69 was?
Laura: No.
Ryan: How do you not know?
Laura: I don't remember.
Ryan: I know.
Laura: I don't remember. An hour ago.
Ryan: Right. Okay, well, 69 was wetlands, if you remember. How do you not remember?
Laura: I do remember that one.
Ryan: Yeah, you.
Laura: Great.
Ryan: Yeah. But u. Um, yeah, this film, it does some very interesting things. And I was kind of just like. I'm like. Cause I'm like. I'm like, man, this film's really fucking good. And then you go on letterboxed and then you look at the reviews and this was something that kind of came to my mind is that, um, you look at those reviews and they're pretty scathing, like, they're pretty nasty because they're. They're like. They do this thing and I think it's. I think it's so dumb where you like, you take a film from an established director, say like, I don't know, a Mike Lee. Because there's a lot of. There's a lot of stuff in this where you look at it and you go, this is a little. This looks like naked. And then you're like, well, it's kind of like nine songs. And then you're like. It's kind of a little bit like in the realm of the senses. I know kda. And you're like. And that's all the reviews you start seeing from people is like, let'let's make this harsh comparison and say this is a cheapened version of something else.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: And I, huh. Had. Yeah, I have some issues with that where I'm like, They're like, they're looking at it and I feel like a lot of it comes down to the fact that like they look at like this sex and the sex is pretty graphic. U. Um, not. Not as graphic, but it's pretty graphic. It's pretty in your face. It feels very real.
Laura: Um, it's very close.
Ryan: Very close. It doesn't really cut away from it. We'll get into it because there's some really nice bits in where the sex happens, where it's like the sex is going on. It's all in one shot. And then there's that little pause. It's like that period of just like the after sex where you're like kind of left with your thoughts because everything's so silent. And then the camera does a move like uh, a completely unmotivated move. But it's obviously getting. It's getting there so that they can have like this conversation, this conversation that never actually starts. And it does that with every single
00:05:00
Ryan: sex scene that we have in this. And I quite like it. But anyway, we're talking about the reviews where I feel like if they're like other sex in it and it's like quite, you know, they like smuting it up is like cheapening it. And I feel like it's just kind of giving it a disservice because you know you're saying, oh well, Mike Lee wouldn't show the sex. And I'm like, what? Because it's like this idea that we have to over intellectualize like everything. Like we have to Chris Nolan everything and be like, wow, that's really smart. And it's like, no, it's stupid. Like it's dumb. It doesn't make any sense. It's like, um, it's like people say, well, it's a horror film because it's full of jump scares. But jump scares aren't scary. It's like a whole point of the horror film is that you're meant to show me something horrible that then clues in my brain where I'm just like, oh my God, if I was in that situation, I'd be fucking terrified. So yeah, I just don't. I just don't think. I think the criticisms of this film are pretty. They're kind of lazy, you know, and like it's being written by a generation now, uh, that's like kind of sexless. And you see that in films that you get nowadays where everything's kind of sexless, you know?
Laura: Um, I'm not sure about that. I feel like there was a lot of chat about that generation, the younger generation being a little bit more prudish and not wanting to see sex on the screen. But then that's not really what we're seeing in the cinema as much as you. As it's touted in the news that that's what's happening. But I don't think that's actually happening in our cinemas at this point. Um, so yeah, I don't know, you know, on TV as well. I'm not gonna, you know, there's a lot more sex and nudity, I think, than we are led to believekay that we're given.
Ryan: All right, well, yeah, either way I think we can agree to disagree because.
Laura: I mean, that doesn't mean that the generation likes it. I mean that still might be an opinion.
Ryan: I don't think they do. That's kind of where, um.
Laura: I'I do.
Ryan: Yeah, but you're not part of this current generation though.
Laura: Don't remind me. So as we booked time off for a large birthday that's coming up. But you know what we haven't really talked about and I'm excited because this is the first of probably several films we'renna cover of this director.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But I'd like to hear about Patrice.
Ryan: So I need to Apologize. Well, Patrice isn't alive anymore, but he did pass away. He did pass away a number of years ago. At least 11 years ago. 12 years ago at this point. Um, yes, but I'm gonna brutalize some of the names of these films.
Laura: Because they're French.
Ryan: They're all in French for the most part, up until a point. But anyway, we'll see. But yeah, Patrice Chirot, uh, French opera theater director. Filmmaker, act director and producer. Um, there's quite a lot. Now, obviously we're notnn. I'm not going to explain everything. Um, but he was. Yeah. Um, because there's. There's just. There's actually way too much to cover. Like this guy'this guy's resume is thick. Um, but he was known for his theater work more in France, and he was known internationally for his films, basically. Um, he's a winner of over 20 movie awards. His theaterre and opera work is massively extensive. Huge's at least two or three times longer than his filmography. And he also has a huge filmography as an actor and a producer as well. So basically, you can take this current filmography that I'm going to explain and give to you here, but then you can also triple it with, uh, him being an actor and a producer. So it's pretty crazy. Plus, he was also, um, 2003. He was like the, uh. He was like the head judge, like the director of the judging panel at the Cannes Film Festival. So.
Laura: Huh.
Ryan: Yes, He. He has, uh, quite qu.
Laura: He did a lot of work in his 60.
Ryan: It's kind of like a Renaissance man. That's what I'm trying to think of. He's like a Renaissance man, but he's kind of. Yeah, he's kind of like a Renaissance man. But it's all within, like, this particular field of the arts, though. He kind of have to write some books.
Laura: And he's not a carpenter.
Ryan: Painting. Yeah. You know'like? You'd have to do more than just that, I guess. But anyway, um, not that. That's not enough. Sorry. Um, but yeah, so we start in 1975 with. Oh, God, here we go with Lar de Leor d. Um, in 78 we have Jud. Uh, Judith the PA. In 78, if I could read your.
Laura: Handwriting, I would just do it for you.
Ryan: Yeah. Because you can't read my head. Right. In 1983 we have Lehomm Blessis. Um, in 86 we have Hotel de France. Um, in 91 we have Conteto Blue. In 94 we have Queen Margot.
00:10:00
Ryan: Now this is a big one. This is from 96. And it was for TV. Uh, Don Les Solitude de Champ de Co. Um, and then we start getting into the. We start getting to the English TS now in 98. So for those who love making Take the train in 2001, we obviously have intimacy. His brother came out in 2003, Gabrielle 2005, and persecuton from 2009. So think. I think I cracked it. I think I did okay there.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Is it all.
Laura: You're lucky that when we go on vacation to France, I won't be doing.
Ryan: Any of the talking. They'll be like, God, this pig, this fucking animal bastardizing our language.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: It's pretty funny. I mean, I'm pretty. I'm pretty hilarious.
Laura: Yeah. You can get away with it.
Ryan: Yeah. I'm also. I'm a Scotsman, so'm like, exactly.
Laura: I have to try harder because I'm American.
Ryan: Yeah. Because M. They hate you already. They haven't even met you. They're just like, oh, my fucking Christ.
Laura: I hate me too.
Ryan: Yeah. Um. Yeah. No. Scotsmen are known as being a little bit cheeky, so I think we're fine.
Laura: Wonderful. Well, this film is loosely based on Hanif Kuresresi's notorious novel of the same name, but more specifically, it's from the short story called Nightlight, where the author describes an encounter that takes place every Wednesday between two people who meet and have sex but never speak to each other. Now, that author also wrote My Beautiful Laundrette, which I thought was. Ye was fun, because that's a. That's a great film.
Ryan: I. I mean, that a. That's a. That's a British classic.
Laura: Yeah, it's wonderful.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And this film is. This film. Being Intimacy is widely considered to be the first theatrically released film in the UK to clearly depict fellatio.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: And it's unsimulated and was.
Ryan: I feel like there's a lot of sex in this that's unsimulated, though.
Laura: There is not. There's not.
Ryan: Uh, why do I see an erect D going into a vagina at one pointah?
Laura: It looks like it. And I think that was a big part of the chatter around this film when it came out, is that it looks real. And there was a lot of stuff going around about it being unsimulated. And I think that it finally came down to them having that conversation where when they were filming it, only that part was unsimulated.
Ryan: Okay, I see.
Laura: So that kind of came through. Carrie Fox's now husband Alex Linkl later he wrote, um, he's a journalist. He wrote an article for the Guardian back in 2001. He was dating her at the time and he was kind of discussing his initial issues and intrigue with his girlfriend Carrie taking on this film.
Ryan: Interesting.
Laura: And it's a long, long article, but it's really quite interesting. Kind of hearing from his perspective as a partner of someone, uh, who is looking to take the role.
Ryan: Oay.
Laura: And his opinion because he's like, is this voyeurism on my part? Is am I jealous? How do I kind of. How does he tackle in his relationship with that actor m this much sex and this unsimulated sex that's happening that's.
Ryan: Kind of oddly interesting. Becauseeah the minute that you said it I was like, oh, fucking hell. It's like. And it's also a Guardian article as well. So you're just like, okay, here we go. Because it sounds a little bit pretentious when really it's something that's relatively quite simple. But think it. I think it's.
Laura: Yeah, it is a bit. But I think there, there was a conversation. I'll read you. I have kind of like a chunk of extract which I thought, uh, I thought was quite interesting.
Ryan: Oay.
Laura: But they had a conversation where he had to draw a line. Well, he actually shouldn't have any opinion whatsoever in a way. But they together kind of drew a line where penetrative sex was crossing the line in terms of them, her deciding to take on this role.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: Where they kind of settled on the fellatio as okay, this we can handle, or she can handle okay, but not penetrative sex.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Um, so this is kind of just a little snippet from the long article which you can find it. It's on the Internet.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So he wrote there is oral sex which you see, and there is the extremely effective illusion of two ordinary people making desperate love. So why if its an illusion, the need to go as far as the film does, why the need to show real oral sex, even if only briefly, and why the need to show more often mark with an erection?
00:15:00
Laura: Uh, the answer is it is to take the internal logic of a work of art to a conclusion. That is its integrity. In this case, it is to take a story that deals with sex as far as the actors can allow without compromising their personal lives, and to elicit from them the most powerful performances of which they are capable.
Ryan: So this, I think, well, he's nailed it there because I feel like this was our main criticism of, uh, nine songs.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Because what nine songs did was they. They focused on the sex and the sex wasn't interesting. The speaking, like, the conversations, the communication between the two characters in between the sex was what was interesting. And that's the thing. That's the same thing with intimacy is that the. The moments where they have sex are. They aren't as interesting as the drama that surrounds the sex.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And it's like, you know, there's a very specific, very particular reason why in these occasions they just. They decide not to talk. And I think that's also another thing why the sex scenes themselves become. You know, they're more interesting. Plus, I think they're shot. They're shot relatively quite well. And they're shot. They're shot in an interesting way because you're looking at a very. Like a very human intimate moment that basically takes place and almost complet. Silence and without a sense of like a human connection being made other than just this very literal, physical, mechanical process that they. That they kind of march through. Um, because it's like. Like the sex itself in this film is. Is like. It's as a characterizing device. So, like, you're. You're looking at something that's, you know, it's like a movement piece, basically. So you're looking at how they move, how they interact with each other, how their body come together, the mood, their attitudes. And, like, how you're able to kind of see. Because the thing is. Is like the minute that communication, like verbal communication comes into the mix during these moments, it completely changes their. Their mood. And I think I put. I wrote something down here that it was like, you know, when they do start to, uh. When they do start to speak, it's because they can't. They can't understand or fathom what they are re doing without some level of, like, language taking place here. Even though obviously the minute they start using the language to try and figure out what it is that they're doing, it kind of destroys and belittles what they're doing in that it has to have, like, more meaning behind it than it actually ends up having. So.
Laura: Right. Because as soon as language and entangling kind of whatever their lives are opposite from this particular situation, it ruins the whole thing.
Ryan: Yeah. The minute they start talking about their feelings.
Laura: Terrible.
Ryan: Like, its like. Nope, not fucking interested. Because thats like. Thats. The interesting dichotomy of this narrative is that you're. You're. I mean, for the most part, because it's. This is gonna. I Mean, I feel like the story itself, we've kind of already told the story. It's going to be more interest because it basically starts off as. It's, it's relatively as dialogue less, um, you know, we get an idea of Mark Rylland's situation and then it kind of just, it kind of just goes like that first, that first dick scene is effectively that first sex scene. It's like it's only five minutes in.
Laura: Uh, yeah, it is.
Ryan: Kind of continues that way for the next 30 minutes.
Laura: Maybe every 10 minutes or so in the beginning of the film. For the most part it's just every 10 minutes. It's another Wednesday.
Ryan: Well, it's, it's like, um, it's figuring out the routine of this man. And again like you're looking at his apartment, you're looking at his home and you're like, Jesus fucking Christ. And then this woman just turns up and you have no idea who she is. You have no idea who he is. And you're just. Then he ushers her into the house and then they just start undressing each other. Very mechanical. And then it just kind of starts.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And sometimes there's variations. Things are different. They seem to have sex in the same room or near the same room. And this is like a three story house. It's pretty big.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And it's, it's a house that. The way that they show it is that it is. It's like it's locked in time because there's flashback moments that show that like this house was alive, it was full of life, it had a. There was
00:20:00
Ryan: a family there. And, you know, um, we find out that Mark Ryland character had a wife, had two kids, but now they are no longer in his life anymore and he's kind of living in the shell of that life that they built together.
Laura: Well, he said he made that decision that he didn't want that life anymore and he just straight up left.
Ryan: Yeah. And then he came back to nothing, it seems like. Which is kind of to me'like the most interesting way in which that can happen is that he basically goes off to try and find himself to then come back to absolutely nothing. And he continues to stay in the house. And it's, it's visibly, it's rotting and it's deteriorating slowly. And it's, it's just, it's a really interesting set piece, at least I feel anyway. But, uh, yeah, we're kind of, we're brought into this routine and it kind of stays this way for a while to the point where I was like, I'm like, is this the film? Like, is this it where it's kind ofeah.
Laura: That would have been really rough.
Ryan: It would have been rough because that's one of the main. And I'm not gonna bring up nine songs again. But that's again, one of the main issues with nine songs is that that uh, is just painfully uninteresting sometimes.
Laura: He gave it a shot, it didn't quite land. This is a beautiful balance of that. And it's got Timothy Spall in it.
Ryan: It does, yeah. A lot of things are improved with Timothy Spall.
Laura: Most things, yeah.
Ryan: But it's kind of like. I think. Yeah. Like it's kind of. It's interesting that these moments, as silent as they kind of remain when people do start talking, like when they start interacting with each other. It is when you're just kind of like, well, this is fucked. And also I do think that Mark Ryland'just as like, as a person, the character he is playing, I think he's. I just don't think he's a good person.
Laura: I think he. No, I don't think. No, of course he's not. Oh, I think he's quite awful.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: When you, when you really take in everything that he does in this film, he's really not great. Uh, as an actor.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Top tier.
Ryan: Top tier. But uh, as ah. The person he is playing, he's playing a man called Jay. That we find out later.
Laura: But you don't. That's another thing is that you don't learn the main characters names in this film until about an hour in. In this two hour film.
Ryan: But that's because no one's talking to each other.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: Which is again, it's very interesting. Yeah, it's incredibly interesting. U. Um, but the thing is is that. Yeah. Because it's like we're gonna. We can't. We're not. We're probably not gonna go from scene to scene to scene. I think it's a case of like we take. We take each moment because there's at least four or five. There's moments.
Laura: Five. There's five. Okay. Well the first one at least the first penis scene happens like you said, five minutes into the film. We dont know these people. And I did read that Carrie Fox got carpet burns after shooting this film. They shot all of the intimate, all of the sex scenes in one week. In a one week block of shooting closed set. And the director thought it would be best because it's not erotic. It's not sexy. You will not get aroused by watching these scenes. If you do. I mean, good for you, but because it's quite taxing.
Ryan: Or not good for you. Y. Freak.
Laura: It was quite a taxing shoot. So after each scene, you know, it's a closed set, but he would make sure that no one, like, the crew wouldn't come in and kind of bombard them after they were done shooting each of these scenes that they would, like, get a moment to kind of collect themselves because, you know, it was quite a lot on them. Okay, and let me see. I don't know. I mean, how do we talk about this?
Ryan: It's, uh, kind of like. Yeah, how do we talk about this? Because it got to the point where it was just like. Re you see his dick so much that you're kind of just like, all right, that's enough.
Laura: That's enough.
Ryan: That's enough. Uh, but here's the thing. It's like. It's just. It's incredibly effective. And it's kind of like, you know, we're looking at a film that shot the majority of the time handheld. It's very fast. It feels quite frenetic. They're using long lenses for the most part, so there's not, like any defining wide shots. It's wide shots that end up just
00:25:00
Ryan: being wide, even though everything's on a long lens. So, again, it's like. It's all very close, and it's quite claustrophobic, and you're. You're not getting the information that you think you might be getting about these characters. You don't know their name. Like, the way the dialogue is also kind of introduced into the film, as well as it feel feels kind of, um. Wouldn't call it stilted, but it's like. It's kind of dry and it's interesting.
Laura: That's. Well, almost half an hour into the film, really, where you learn a little bit about Jay. You learn that he's the bar manager you meet.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Who is gonna be his new best friend. That. That lovely French man, the little French.
Ryan: The French gay guy who. Who is hired on. And Ryance is just like, who. Who's this fucking twerp? Because he does thatick. He does that joke on him where he's like. He takes a little swig of his espresso that he's just made, and he goes, put this in the fridge so I can have it later. And then he finds it on the shift, and he's like, you fucking idiot. I didn't expect you to put My coffee in the fridge.
Laura: Oh, I was confused.
Ryan: Oh, really?
Laura: It's his boss. It's like his first day.
Ryan: Yeah, no, he was fucking taking the piss out of, um, him.
Laura: Maybe he likes a cold espresso.
Ryan: No, he doesn't, because he took it out and he was just like, yeah, well done. You fucking believe me, you clown.
Laura: He listens to his boss and his instructions on the job, and I think that that is endearing.
Ryan: I think the best thing you can do as an employee is stand up to your boss. That's what I think you should do. You should tell your boss to go fuck themselves. And you know what? In most occasions, you're correct. So. And his other best friend, Victor, the Scotsman.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. There's a moment where, um, they argue with it. I liked it. There's a bit where there's an Englishman and a Scotsman and a Frenchman in the room. And the Englishman and the Scotsman can't stand the Frenchman by the things that he says. That they turn around and they're just like, you little cunt. And it's the only time in the movie where I was just like, that's. That's interesting. That was funny. But, um, yeah, no, it's like, there's just a lot of really interesting things in the film. I don't think the film is perfect. I do think that, like, you've got your central characters. You'got your ryland, your fox and your spall. And I think all three of them are actually incredibly good. But I feel like a few of the other bit players, I'm not that really interested in. You know what I mean? I mean, yeah, like the acting students. I'm not a big fan of that scene itself. I'm like.
Laura: I did get. When we got to the acting school, I was a little bit like, uh, we're off the rails. I don't know if I like this. But then it pulled me back in when she started crying, which. Because Bait. Well, okay, let me rein this back in a little bit before we.
Ryan: We're jumping around too crazy. Ye.
Laura: Like, starts off five minutes and we have a penis. Sc. 18 minutes in, we have a penis scene. The first time. I don't know if it's because the audience is getting a little bit kind of weaned into the situation where it is a little bit awkward. The floor, everything's dirty in his flat. It just doesn't look good. It'gross And I wondered, how long has this been going on? Why is she letting him? Huh? Why are they having sex? On the floor. And it's kind of quick, the whole thing, which is fine. You know, 18 minutes in, it's another Wednesday. They seem to be having a little bit more fun this time.
Ryan: Mhm. Well, he doesn't use a condom in one of them.
Laura: In one of them?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Maybe. Oh, like the last. Not the very last one.
Ryan: No, it could be, it could be the one with the BJ potentially. I'm trying to remember if I. Which one I wrote it down for. But there, there is a moment where he. She doesn't expect him to use a condom. He doesn't use a conduct.
Laura: Gosh, I don't remember because there's 28 minutes, almost 29 minutes in. And that time we. They have a little snooze together and then he just watches her from a chair.
Ryan: I thought that bit was really interesting.
Laura: I liked that. Well, I think this is the part where he starts getting emotionally involved. He catches feelings.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: And he just gets obsessed. I think maybe this is the moment where that turns. Because then at 36 minutes and 10 seconds is the, the unsimulated fellatio scene that's. It's not very long, but it's. It is. What is the word? I don't know.
Ryan: I mean, it's brief.
Laura: It's brief, but it's compelling.
Ryan: Yes, it is compelling.
Laura: And it really kind
00:30:00
Laura: of, uh. I don't know. It's great. The scene is just really well done, you know?
Ryan: Ye.
Laura: Um.
Ryan: But then after. After goes crazy because like, you know, the sex doesn't stop necessarily, but it's less. It feels like the passion is being replaced with like obsession. Obsession on his part. Like a little, only like a little bit of rage. Like people are angry and pissed off that things are. Things are, you know, think they're noticing that things are changing. And I think it's probably because like, there's now feelings involved.
Laura: There's that interesting moment and I wish I'd written down exactly what he said. But his French friend, when they're standing outside of that kind of food cart, right? And he's trying to figure out Jay, he's trying to figure out Mark Rylanz and he's like, why aren't you just enjoying the moment where you have two people together and you're not expecting anything from each other, Right? Because later on all you're doing is expecting and taking from each other forever.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: You know, why can't you just live in this moment where you don't expect anything? Because he's wondering what, what am I. Giving her. What is she giving me?
Ryan: Y.
Laura: What's next?
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: Instead of just enjoying the company of each other and. And not expecting anything in return. Because why can't that be enough?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Why can't just. This intimacy, this sex. Because they're both incredib A. It's such a lonely movie.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: They're so lonely.
Ryan: It's very. Yeah, it's very. The film does a really good job of just making sure that you know, how alone they are, um, how lonely they are.
Laura: And then when he starts following her, I think he gets even more angry seeing at least from his perspective from the outside how full her life is.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it really sets him off. It really upsets him when he's. When he barges himself into her life, sees that she's an actor and she is physically on a stage acting. I think that also made him mad.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Uh, like, are you acting with me? Like that classic nonsense, you know, what's real, what's not real? And he sees her on the stage, he barges himself into the life of her husband.
Ryan: Yeah. And this is kind of like.
Laura: I don't think he knew that. He obviously didn't know that at first. But then when he finds out that Timothy Spall is her husband, he just leans into it.
Ryan: He starts to almost sabotage it. He absolutely, he really start to sabotage it. But the thing is, is like he's. He's just such a cun about it. And that's the thing.
Laura: It's like entitled.
Ryan: He's like, he's with this woman and this stuff is happening and like we just said he should just be happy with that. And if like, this is what this woman wants, then he should just be happy with this. Until something. Something other than that comes his way and he's able to kind of plow his life into it and stuff because it's obvious she's. She's probably not wanting that. And we do find out that that's kind of. That's kind of how it is. This emotional game of tennis that they're playing. But yeah, he does. He. But he follows her. He starts to see more about her life. And then he. I think he just starts to become jealous.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And it just kind of. It just starts to spiral when you have this one.
Laura: Well, you know, Timothy Spall is a wonderful dude's honest.
Ryan: He's an honest working man.
Laura: Andyids.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Uh, you meet Andy, you meet his kid, and they're so sweet and welcoming.
Ryan: And he's a very simple man with simple pleasures. I mean, Thats s really whats.
Laura: Well, he. At least hes the first part of all of her shows. And he'always there to help set up, break things down and help people out when they need help. The little kid is, uh, the cutest little boy.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he watches all of his moms shows. And then you've got this guy coming in, laying everything out. And he wants Andy to know, kind of he wants to ruin their lives.
Ryan: Kind of over intellectualizing them to try and make him feel like he's stupid, like doing things like that.
Laura: But also he goes in and then just explains the whole situation to him, which makes him. Which makes Andy realize what's actually going on.
Ryan: Yeah. And it's kind of. It's kind of. It's kind of the cruellest way in which to do it as well.
Laura: I
00:35:00
Laura: feel like stringing it out as well over time, you know, and it's like.
Ryan: It's like the way in which Jay has met Andy is just as like a byproduct of the fact that he is effectively stalking his wife because his wife comes by every Wednesday and he's like. He's like, well, Wednesday'Wednesday I've got a lot of business. I get a lot of business on a Wednesday. And it's like you can see the cogs in his head start to start to turn. And it's kind of. Yeah, it's just this really kind of sad, sad build up because, you know, it's not going to, you know, it's not going to do. It's not go. Goingna go well.
Laura: No, no, it's not going to go well. And what is the good. What good would come out of that at all anyway? You know, because he says, oh, what if that was your wife and she was sleeping with a guy every Wednesday?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: What would you do if she didn't want to leave you and stay with you? And he's like, well, I guess that would be enough.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, probably.
Laura: Um, Bummer.
Ryan: Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Uh, it'd be rough, you know, but then it's like. It's like the more Jay gets to see into like their lives and stuff like that, the, you know, the sex becomes less than passionate. It's kind of aggressive.
Laura: You know, there's that one of those is a rape.
Ryan: Yeah, it's kind ofucked up.
Laura: It'pretty much a rape.
Ryan: Yeah. It spits his hand and stuff like.
Laura: That's disgusting. And he coughs. It's foul. Well, she ends up crying about it because she knows that she Knows how she feels about the situation.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: She knows that it was pretty much a rape. Andah she also knows that this is the beginning of the end of this relationship with Jay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Because you can't go on like that.
Ryan: Well, she does keep on coming over because that's the thing. Like she does keep on coming over. And I think I uh, think. I think there's. There's a level of confusion involved in it as well. Because you know, min. The minute they start talking to each other, it's like game over. But that's the thing is like she does keep on coming over by that, like by that point. To the point where J. J. Well, Victor comes to live in with Jay as a lodger. And it's obvious Victor has some fucking drug issues. He has some problems. Um, but the thing is, is that she does continue to come over. But then Jay also starts making excuseses to like why he won't be in the house on that Wednesdaying. And he's just like, well if anyone knocks on the door, just don't answer the door. I'm just gonna go out. And it's like he's also, he's also think like there's. They're seemingly trying to find a way to escape this situation. It either ends and they don't interact with each other ever again or it continues, but it continues in the way that it's supposed to. But the problem is, is that if it does continue that way, people start getting more touchy feely about things. And it's just to me personally, it gets. This is where it gets very interesting because it's all about a bunch of people who are living their lives, but not to the full potential of, of those uh, expectations that they were looking for.
Laura: You know, um, right. It gets to a point where they're definitely at an impasse where you can't go forward anymore pretty much just because of how Jay is acting, in my opinion, because he goes over the edge and he has feelings. She is trying to figure it out on her own. But once he crossed the line like he did by imposing himself into her life and her relationship, yep, it's done.
Ryan: And it kind of comes down to just like he had the expectation that they would just be together at a certain point.
Laura: What a silly goose.
Ryan: He was being silly. I mean that moment, that moment where Timothy Spall shows up at the bar when he's working and then basically pours his heart and soul out to the man. And Ryland's just kind of retorts with well, I've, uh, stopped seeing her now anyway. And it's like, but you just destroyed this man's life. Like this pretense of, like what he hell, dear. Where he's just like, every day I love her a little bit more. And I'm like. I'm like, oh, my fucking Christ.
Laura: I got goosebumps just by you saying it. It's so.
Ryan: Because that's the thing. Like, to him, it's everything. Yeah, He's a cabie who helps his wife out every time she has a show and they
00:40:00
Ryan: have a son together and they live a relatively quite humble life. And it seems quite nice, to be honest. And Rylland's kind of just sums it all up with just like. Yeah, no, I'm notnna see it anymore. And it's like, yes, but you just came into my life and you just fucking ruined it, basically. And it's. Yeah, it's an incredibly kind of sad, sad, um, film, actually.
Laura: Overall, it is very sad. Yeah, very sad and lonely. But damn, is it fascinating.
Ryan: It's very gripping. It's very gripping.
Laura: So, yeah, I o there. Oh, he. There is one more nude scene we don't really need to talk about, but it's an hour, 46 minutes and 35 seconds. Right at the end, we basically A sad Mark Ryan.
Ryan: Yeah, at that point I was just like, I'm not, um. I'm good.
Laura: Yeah. What did we say again?
Ryan: I think what you mean, what did.
Laura: We see again when we were saying, Put it away. Put it away, Mark.
Ryan: Oh, conceal the hog.
Laura: Conceal the hog.
Ryan: Conceal the hog. Yeah, we were done. We were done at that point. But it's. Yeah, no, it's just. It's fascinating because I think story like things like this are fascinating. Like they're interesting. Or at least to me, they are like people just trying to live their lives. And that's what, that's what SP says at one point. He's like, this fucking life we all lead like this. As if it's like. It's like, this is the dance you dance. This is the. This is the walk you make. Like that sort of thing. Like, it's. It's interesting.
Laura: It's interesting when they even have that confrontation in the most awkward cab ride of all time. And I can't remember exactly what she says, but she brings up Jay and Andy just starts screaming like, it's not about that. Like, I don't even want to talk about him. I don't even want to talk about this. And then he starts going on about how she's never going to make it as an actor, you know.
Ryan: Well, I think at that point he'trying to. He's trying to hurt her, of course, because he's hurt and it's not, it's not nice what's happened to him. He doesn't deserve it. Or at least he feels like he doesn't deserve it. But then again, like, you know, we're dealing with a bunch of characters who for the most part, we don't really learn their names until much like. So we're, we're getting like a snapshot of obviously what is quite a very built out and quite dense history that these people have. And we're kind of seeing little snippets of it.
Laura: They're was an interview that I was reading with Mark Ryllandz, which I think it's a bit sad and I don'I'mnna read it for you anyway, but he said that this is in 2015, so recent. Oh, o gosh, that's 10 years ago. I was like, ago. Oh my gosh. Uh, he said that all of the tabloid headlines and all the press about the film put a strain on his marriage. And in that interview, he said, it soured me on my life for two months. It's my mistake. But I felt Patrice put undue pressure on me on set to do that. And at that point I didn't have the confidence as a film actor to say no. Now, I think a lot of actors that people say are difficult are, uh, actually being sensible. I think that it's a real shame that Mark Ryancece has said that he regrets making this film because I think he does an incredible job. It's a really, really well done performance and I think this movie's really fascinating, personally.
Ryan: Yeah. But it's obviously taken a bit of a toll on him for, like, doing it because it's not, uh, it's a pretty intense piece of filmmaking for the most part.
Laura: So he must not have had a conversation with his wife like Carrie Foxt did with her boyfriend at the time, because they really, really. They read the script together and I know he's a journalist, so we got to see in that article that he wrote about the process of them figuring out whether this role was right for her and how it might affect the relationship. But they ended up getting married and they had a family after that. They're still together. Yeah.
Ryan: Uh, yeah, I think, um, transparency, that's the thing. Communication, you need to, you need. Yeah, you're. Everyone's a grown adult in this situation. It's Just. It's either for you or it isn't for you. You know, I'm pretty sure they're not going into the situation being completely blind to the fact that, yeah, this might be a bit rough, but, you know, this is the, uh. Yeah, this is. This is the fucking life we all lead.
Laura: Uh, this is pre intimacy coordinators as well. And Ryan had said that this film would have benefited
00:45:00
Laura: from having an intimacy coordinator round because that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to do all the things that they did.
Ryan: Course.
Laura: Uh, but maybe it would have made him feel more comfortable as the actor performing these scenes. So.
Ryan: Yeah, no, I get that.
Laura: I understand that this film, as you the director, is much awarded.
Ryan: Yes, he is.
Laura: This film won the Golden Bear for best film at Berlin Film Festival. And Carrie Fox won the Silver Bear for best actress.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Because it's good'amazing.
Ryan: Yeah, no, she's very good in it. It's very, very good in it.
Laura: Would you like to jump into ratings? I'm ready. Unless you have something else to add about the film. I really could talk about the scenes at the pub where they're playing pool.
Ryan: And terrible pool as well. Like, awful pool.
Laura: The little kid about the play, about. There's so much I could talk about. Timothy Spall. When I have a Spall cast, it's.
Ryan: Just kind of like. Yeah, it's just, um. Yeah, I don't want to take away because there's nothing that we could explain that makes it. That's just like, wow. I feel more informed. This is better than it would if I didn't know this information, you know?
Laura: I mean, I don't have anything like that. No, no. I do have one thing. I do. Oh, my gosh.
Ryan: Right. Okay.
Laura: Oh, I don't. Well, I'll just have to remember because I can't find it m in my notes.
Ryan: But I have this one thing that I don't remember.
Laura: I have a lot of notes. Oh, I found it. Patrice, uh, Chereau originally wanted Gary Oldman for the lead.
Ryan: Hmm.
Laura: M. But he didn't want to do all the sex. He wasn't interested in the sex.
Ryan: Come on, Gary. You can't go into a film called Intimacy and not fucking do the sex.
Laura: Gotta do the sex, Gary.
Ryan: Yeah. Come on, Gary.
Laura: Well, apparently, Gary showed Patrice around for potential shooting locations in London.
Ryan: Yeah, I mean, well, Garyy's done a bunch of that stuff.
Laura: Tons of that stuff.
Ryan: You know, the firm, you know, just getting it done. Um, yeah, no, that's Gary's Amazing. Yeah. Gary's all right. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess we get into the ratings now.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: What we'renna do for the scene, visibility, context, um, five stars, no notes.
Laura: Five stars also no notes.
Ryan: Yep.
Laura: Great visibility, great context. You're doing a movie like this, especially based off of the source material, which intricately describes the sex scenes. That's what it's about.
Ryan: Y.
Laura: And the notes also for the film were quite explicit and specific. So. Yeah. Um, I think that they really beautifully achieved what they set out to do, where boundaries, at least on Carrie Fox's part as the actor, were not pushed and they were quite clear. And it's the only.
Ryan: It's the only way something like that works. And that's it. And I think. I think it just. It's u. Uh, I think it works in this film. Honestly, it does.
Laura: I think it's great.
Ryan: And that's the thing, like, as much as Mark Rylands is like, uh, oh, God, I really regret doing this film. That's because it's done so effectively. So that's kind of unfortunate on his part, is it's done so well that it's, like, actually affected him.
Laura: I want to send. I'll send him an email.
Ryan: On a deep level, although you did.
Laura: A really good job, and it's a great film. Don't be sad.
Ryan: No, embrace it, Mark. Come on, Mark. Embrace it. I mean, that's kind of fun.
Laura: That's the hog, Mark.
Ryan: That's kind of. Yeah, well, I think that's the problem. I think that was these issues just like, God, oh, my. Can I just put it away, please?
Laura: Patrice, can I get dressed? No, no.
Ryan: It's like, patrice, I'm a little cold. He's like, no, I'm not finished.
Laura: Everyone else can leave except you.
Ryan: Oh, no, I need some time with Mark. Yeah.
Laura: And I haven't rated this on the whole letterboxed app, but I'm gonna give four stars for the film. Overall, I think that I liked it a lot, and Im'm glad that we own it from Kino Lorber.
Ryan: Yeah. It's not gonna be once, uh, a week sort of watch, but it's not.
Laura: Gonna be in every Wednesday.
Ryan: No, no.
Laura: But, um, it's something I would love for people to borrow. You know, if someone came over and was browsing the shelves, like, you know what?
Ryan: I feel like more people'a good one. See this? I would show this one to Josh. Think this would be. I think this would be right up his alley. I think it would work for them. And maybe their event because it is pretty. If you've never seen it before, like, it is pretty fucking uncomfortable.
00:50:00
Laura: And the uncomfortable scenes are not the sex scenes at all. Absolutely not the sexies.
Ryan: It's the obvious crumbling of a man's marriage.
Laura: Timmy.
Ryan: Poor Timmy.
Laura: Timy, no.
Ryan: All these secrets and lies. So topsy turvy. Um, yeah. Um, no, I started off with four stars because I was like.
Laura: Did you go up?
Ryan: I did, yeah. I gave it four and a half because you can't forgive that fucking drama school scene. It's too long. And I don't think. I don't think the other bit part players in that scene are actually good enough. I understand why you'an acting school. Yeah.
Laura: Ryan, they're an acting school. They can't be that good.
Ryan: That's a fucking. That's an inception.
Laura: They were so bad.
Ryan: They're acting.
Laura: They're acting.
Ryan: So maybe m. Well, they're the best actors because they're acting badly while they're actually, uh, acting. Jez. Uh, that is an inception. That's, uh.
Laura: They're acting bad very well.
Ryan: That's an enigma in a Pandora.
Laura: So well that you thought they were actually bad, but no, that's acting.
Ryan: Fuck. Shit. So, uh, well then why did she. Why did her friend continue to be bad in the scenes when she wasn't at school? How'd you explain that, hot shot? Yeah, you don't. Right, there you go. End a story.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: But I gave it four and a half for everything else. Yeah, that's me.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I enjoy a film like this. I enjoy.
Laura: This is right. If you're Alley. This feels like a Mike Lee. I'm in.
Ryan: It'not yeah, it's no Secrets and lies, but Jesus fucking Christ.
Laura: What was the new one? Hard Truths. So good.
Ryan: Yeah, really good. There's people out there didn't even like it. I'm like, fuck off.
Laura: They didn't do the titular line in Hard Truths, which was a hard truth for me to have to swallow.
Ryan: It was. It was rough. I don't know what.
Laura: So easy.
Ryan: I can't remember what I gave. Hard truths. But it was probably five stars.
Laura: S really good.
Ryan: Yeah. This is like. Because again, like, I don't agree with people comparing, you know, like, this film to, like, Mike Lee, because Mike le's got his own thing going on.
Laura: Of course. But it's got a vibe. It's got that lonely London vibe.
Ryan: It does, yeah.
Laura: Because it does the late 90s.
Ryan: It does, yeah. It does.
Laura: U um, early 2000s.
Ryan: Early 2000s. Yeah. Um, um, you know, pre terrorist attacks probably. I think that's kind of when things start to change is the terror attacks start happening a lot more U. Um, in the early 2000s. So that's the. That is the, uh. Uh, yeah, that is the watermark moment, I feel.
Laura: Okay, great. Well, what a treat. Glad we picked this movie. It's really good. It's sad, but you're not gonna cry. You're probably just gonna like squeal from being uncomfortable, but that's pretty greateah it. You know, Heineken probably sponsored this movie as well. Coming to you from the Earl Derby Pub, which is no longer a pub. I looked it up on Google Earth. Empty. Save our pubs.
Ryan: Yeah, that's sad. See what happened? See what fucking 2001 brought us, guys.
Laura: Save our Earl Derby Pubs.
Ryan: Yeah. It's not a pub called Free the Peedos now, is it?
Laura: No, it's not. It's a shuttered, closed up, empty building.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: Yeah, there's a problem. You gotta save the pubs in the uk.
Ryan: Ah. Also, if you're a smart ar just like me, you'll know that that reference is. It'from Peepow. So I don't think anyone should call.
Laura: A pub that ever a pub for Pedos.
Ryan: Well, Free the Pedos was. That was Super Hands his name for the pub that him in, uh, Jeremy bought. And it's like, it has like a washing machine like in the middle of the room. And they're like, so we're gonna clear all this stuff out, right? And Superand is like, no, leave it there. It's perfect. And he's like, we're gonna call it something like the Boln Bush or like, you know, any of this. And he's like, no, we're gonna call it Free the Poes. You know, and he's like. He's like, yeah, it's like people out there voted for the Nazis and like Coldplay. You can't trust people, Jeremy.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah, that's, uh, it's more relevant now as a clip than ever before. But yeah, you know that the lost and forgotten but not really forgotten classic show from Jesse Armstrong.
Laura: So season four, episode six of Peep Show. There you go, everybody. He described the episode, at least the best joke in that episod.
Ryan: Well, yeah, the part Peep Show'amazing. Yeah.
Laura: Peep Show'amazing Coming to you from the Earl Derby Pub and not the Free the Pedo pub with the washing machine in the center of the floor. I'BEEN Laura, I've been Ryan, and we.
Ryan: Will
00:55:00
Ryan: seen at Ryan Lance.
Laura: We'll see you at a hundred. We'll see you at 100.
Ryan: Yeah, we'll be at a hundred. Next time.
Laura: What a treat.
Ryan: Yeah. And what treat will be?
Laura: We don't know yet. We have to record it.
Ryan: Yeah. I have no idea if it'be a treat or notaster.
00:55:18