The blackest of black comedies and not for the faint of heart: actors and principal crew Remy Belvaux, Andre Bonzel and Benoit Poelvoorde's MAN BITES DOG
In the second part of our seasonally titled "DESCENDING INTO DARKNESS", we take you on a trip into a very whimsical murder. A faux documentary crew who follow a serial killer as he maims, murders, assaults, and offends his way through Belgium.
The blackest of black comedies and not for the faint of heart, actors and principal crew Remy Belvaux, Andre Bonzel and Benoit Poelvoorde's MAN BITES DOG embodies the very meaning of a cult classic even if you don't (and really shouldn't) agree with the content. One thing that really isn't up for debate is it does give us one entirely unique thing...a better English title than the translated one.
We do wish you a good Holiday Season and an even happier New Year, however...we do want to invite you to DESCEND INTO THE DARKNESS WITH US ALL!
Man Bites Dog: A Dark Comedy Dive into Despair
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to on the BiTTE, the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. Uh, my name is Laura and I am joined by my co host, Ryan.
Ryan: Hello.
Laura: And I also joined by our dear friend Josh.
Josh: Hey, how's it going?
Laura: Joyeux noele to you both. Same en.
Josh: Because we are here every holiday to you.
Laura: Oh, thank you. We're here to talk about the 1992 black comedy crime mockumentary Man Bites Dog testss this season. What did you say this season was called, Ryan? Delve into despair or something?
Ryan: Oh, it'no. Um, it was descending to darkness.
Laura: Descended into darkness.
Ryan: It's been a funny year. Like, a lot of things could have happened, but also we need to remind people that it can also get worse.
Laura: So, um, if this film does anything, it absolutely shows us that things could be a lot worse.
Ryan: Yeah, Human. Yeah. Humankind is. Is a travesty. It needs to be reset.
Josh: I don't know. I think we're doing okay.
Laura: Yeah, you think?
Josh: Yeah. No notes. Really? I mean, I can't think of anything.
Laura: You can't think of anything terrible that's happen?
Josh: No, that wouldn't change anything.
Laura: O.
Ryan: All right. Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Laura: Uh, that's nice.
Ryan: You know what? Maybe I should agree. Yeah, there we go.
Laura: I don't know. I'll agree to disagree. And I wanted to bring you here, Josh, specifically because we didn't get to do this film on the podcast when you showed man bitite's dog for uncomfortable brunch.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: When that was this year, wasn't it?
Ryan: Was.
Josh: I mean, it's.
Ryan: I can probably checkeah.
Josh: I'm sorry to be doing this in the middle.
Ryan: I also Never.
Laura: It was May 7th.
Josh: O.
Laura: Never last.
Josh: Yeah, I was gonna say I thought it was last year, but it was likeh. Maybe it was early this year.
Laura: One thing that I was trying to figure out in my research was why the English title of this film is man by dog when the original French title is De che vous, which is it happened near your home. H. It happened near your home.
Josh: Usually the English translated English title, not even translated, is usually the boring one. This is. We got a better title.
Laura: It's shorter, it's more concise. I mean, the tagline of the film is it happened in your neighborhood. Which is basically the same thing.
Josh: Sure.
Laura: But the closest I got to figuring it out is it might refer to kind of that old adage, which is, when a dog bites a man, that's not news. But when a man bites a dog, that's News.
Josh: Oh, okay.
Ryan: H. Interesting.
Laura: That's as close as I could get. Yeah, I went deep. I learned a lot and it's not. That's the one thing I couldn't figure out.
Josh: Okay. I've never heard that before. Yeah, that's uh.
Ryan: She's really tearing into some of my notes though.
Laura: Is that what, did you write that down in your name?
Ryan: Yeah, because I wrote it'like the translates to it happen. It happened near your home.
Laura: Right?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: I mean that's not really too deep. Rya. That's just French.
Ryan: It very fre. No, my notes are always surface level but I always like to have a little bit of something just so it sounds like actually did something.
Laura: Okay. Yeah, I believe you did. Uh, well find out.
Ryan: Yeah, Ive got some other notes I.
Laura: Specifically didnt write down things we talked about it before because I knew that you werenna bring them up.
Ryan: Well, no, its'fine because Im going to crucify everyones name, uh, once I come to actually say them.
Laura: Well, that's not too hard. I can start.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So the film stars and is directed by Remy Belveau, Andre Bonzel and Benoit Pulvau. And yeah, there you go. The boys.
Ryan: There you go.
Laura: Best Friends Club Y and the synopsis of this film that I pulled from letterboxed is Long Tuck in. The activities of rampaging, indiscriminate serial killer Ben are recorded by a willingly complicit documentary team who eventually become his accomplices and active participants. Ben provides casual commentary on the nature of his work and arbitrary musings on topics of interest to him, such as music or conditions of low income housing. And even goes so far as to introduce the documentary crew to his family. But their reckless indulgences soon get the better of them. That seems um, um, kind of sweet.
Ryan: Its something that could definitely be truncated. Im that's my particular view on that.
Josh: I'm just thinking that like if my grandmother read that review, she may be interested in watching that movie.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely.
Josh: And uh, I think that's funny.
Ryan: Mhm. Mm.
Laura: I mean even just the first part of the sentence. The firsts, yeah.
Josh: So it makes it. I mean in fairness
00:05:00
Josh: though, as far as serial killer movies go, this is one of the more whimsical.
Laura: Yeah, it's got some really great music. Especially when murders are happening and people getting thrown off bridges ye bodies.
Josh: It's just a fun movie in a way. I don't know.
Laura: I've had.
Josh: I have fun with it. I think there's some folks that probably.
Laura: Would disagree, but we rew watched it last night and I think this is my second time watching. It was yesterday, and I was cracking up, like, an uncomfortable amount of laughing where if anyone else was in the room, maybe other than my close friends, they would think I was absolutely crazy.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And I looked at Ryan and I go, am I laughing a lot? Am I laughing too much?
Ryan: He goes, yeah, yeah, you were laughing. I don't know if it's funny. Well, I don't know. Like, man bites dog has to be something that I need to be in the mood for. And I genuinely wasn't in the mood for it last night. I really was. I just. I was like, I don't find any of this funny just now. Like, I was kind of. Kind of just appalled.
Laura: To me, m. I don't know what.
Ryan: Was wrong with me up until the.
Laura: Christmas part is where I can laugh and laugh and laugh. And then after that I'm like, oh.
Ryan: It'S technically all good up until the gang rap. And then it's kind of like. Becausee it does. There's a lot of tonal shifts and stuff in the film. Like, it starts to get a little bituz. You know, I think we'll talk about the ending and stuff like that where, you know. But, yeah, the things that you should be laughing at. Like, there is. There's a lot of funny stuff in it and you should be probably laughing at it because that's how you cope. But the, uh. Yeah, for the. For the most part. Yeah. Once that. Once that scene starts to happen. Yeah.
Josh: I don't know if I agree completely because I think that when the camera and the boom mic gets set down so they can take turns, that's pretty fucking funny. I don't know. Maybe it's not funny, but I certainly laugh.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: When they all wake up and they are still there and their pants are down.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: They just fell asleep.
Josh: There's.
Ryan: Yeah. There's one way to deal with trauma.
Josh: It was funny.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: Actually, um, the entire reason that I ever saw, the original reason I ever saw this film was a blind buy. It was during a Criterion sale, uh, that Virgin Megastore was having at Downtown Disney.
Laura: Wow.
Josh: Um, which was still Pleasure island at the time.
Laura: Nice.
Josh: Yeah. And, uh, I was at. I was in film school and me and my fellow, um, students, we got our living expense check disbursement and so we went to Virgin Megastore with our. You know, I mean, we were 18. And, uh, I saw the COVID the black and white, except for the red pacifier and explosion of Blood.
Laura: Ah.
Josh: Like he's shooting a baby in the face. And I thought that was the most awesome something I'd ever seen in my life. And so I bought it, uh, without knowing what it was at all. And I definitely offended all of my friends. None of them thought that it was good. I liked it a lot.
Laura: Were you upset that there was no baby killing?
Josh: I upset as a stretch, but noted. I did notice I was disappointed. I. And it was funny ca. Because it was. It was like a day later when I realized. Cause I was so into the movie the first time I watched it that I didn't pay attention. And then the next day I was probably putting it back on my shelf or something. I was like, wait a second. There was no baby being shot at all.
Laura: Just a suffocation of a child.
Josh: Yeah, that's pretty good. I like that.
Laura: Yeah, that was pretty funny. That part was pretty funny. Gotta say.
Ryan: Yeah's. It's horrifying. Yeah. No, I think, uh, yeah.
Laura: I'm wondering how much information you have, Ryan, on the direct tour tours.
Ryan: Not a tont, because there's not really a lot of other films to about. It's just kind of notes on the movie itself because you have Remy, Andre and Benoit. Benoit being, you know, the second most popular Benoit of all time. Um, um.
Laura: Go on.
Ryan: Well, we all remember Chris Benoit.
Laura: Oh, okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Yikes.
Ryan: You know, the crab or whatever it was that he did.
Laura: Birds, um, of a feather.
Ryan: Yeah. Anyway, um, so they all act, uh, you know, other than being obviously the lead actor, the co editor and the cinematographer, um, for the movie. Um, I have some little kind of bits and bobs, um, here. Remy Belvois, um, was part of a four person gang who on 4th of February 1998, um, were fined for throwing a cream pie at Bill Gates. Yeah, yeah.
Laura: So good.
Ryan: But unfortunately, remy died at 39. Uh, from suicide.
00:10:00
Ryan: Um, he is no longer with us, unfortunately.
Laura: On your birthday, no less.
Ryan: He died on my birthday. I mean, if you're gonna go any day, that's probably a good day.
Josh: When's your birthday, Rya?
Ryan: Fourth of September.
Josh: Damn, I'm 39. I could have. Never mind.
Laura: Oh, you could have pulled. Could have pulled a Remy. Oh my God, please no one do a Remy.
Ryan: Yeah, don't.
Josh: Well, I can't now. ###eah not on Ryan's birthday.
Laura: No. Late.
Ryan: Well, I mean, if you're desperate, bend the rules. Do it at 40. That's true, but yeah. Um, so that's a weird word to use for suicide.
Laura: Well, maybe it's an approriiate worde desperate.
Ryan: Um, the film received the, uh, Andre, uh, Cavin's award for best film from the Belgian Film Critics association. And, uh. Oh, God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bocher this, uh, benit pood. Is that what you said?
Laura: I said pulvord.
Ryan: Uh, pvord. Basically, I'll just say it the way it's spelled. Polulver. And is the prominent European actor active since 1983. Um, so a Man Bites Dog was also originally a low budget, kind of graduation project. So I think there's also a short film that was the, I guess the beginnings of this. And it just kind of. It feels to me that they've. They've added to it to make it more of a feature film, um, from its original incarnation. So.
Laura: Yeah, these boys are, um. These boys are best friends.
Josh: Yeah.
Ryan: Well, yeah, we were, uh, were. Yeah, one of them. Yeah, they were best friends. Yes. In spirit. Well, I mean, two of them are still alive as far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm aware.
Laura: But yeah, I don't want to, uh, step on your toes if you have more to say about.
Ryan: No, no, I don't.
Laura: The boys.
Ryan: No, you already, you already. You already butchered at least half of my notes from just your own introduction alone. So.
Laura: Cool.
Ryan: Yeah, so that's fine.
Laura: I have more.
Ryan: Oh, crazy.
Laura: You guys wa. Want toa know so much more.
Josh: Mhm.
Laura: These guys are best friends. I've mentioned it before. I love a best friend story. And this film is also about men becoming best friends and doing everything together. Okay.
Josh: Everything.
Laura: Everything. Uh, together. They all founded the company Artis and Nois, and, uh, they made the film Pa de Cif 4. Poor Danielle. Danielle in 1987. So this was a mock trailer for a spy thriller that they did in film school.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: So this might be kind of the early days, but in that film, I watched it today, uh, Benoit plays a spy and it's very funny and very silly. And if you think that Man Bites Dog is racist, you're not wrong. But when you watch and it's basically no C4 for Daniel, that's what the title of that movie is.
Ryan: Okay?
Laura: There's blackface. There's all sorts of horrible racist things in it that they think is very funny, but it's also the 80s. Is that make it better? I don't know.
Josh: It def.
Laura: Doesn't first of all, but yeah, I don't think so.
Josh: I mean, Trading Places has blackface.
Ryan: It does, yeah.
Laura: 80S.
Ryan: There's also S. Also, yeah. Who's the actor? Who's the lead and the hiter? The young kid. He also has that. He has that blackface movie that he's also in.
Josh: I don't know. Slam dunk or no, I'm sorry. Enest Goes to Africa has blackface. Gosh. And that was 94. They should have known better.
Laura: They always should have known better.
Josh: I like that I almost got the wrong earnest title. No, no, not slam dunkrnest. That's with Kariem. I told Japar this is totallyu.
Ryan: I didn't know there was an Earnesness Goes to Africa. I thought was like Shaft Goes to Africa. Felt like you were kind of.
Josh: There's a Shaft Goes to Africa as well.
Ryan: Shaft in Africa.
Josh: You know though, I mean now I know that what double feature I need to produce.
Laura: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Josh: Shaf Goes to Africa and Ernest goes to Africa. Two of the most important cultural figures of the 20th century.
Laura: Amazing. Sorry. So these best friends were in film school. They needed to make a feature. They needed something that did not cost a lot of money. So this film kind of blossomed out of the idea of not having any money. Which plays into the story and how Ben Benoit, the killer essentially becomes the producer of the film. Because they go, we don't have any money. Goes oh, don't worry, I have money.
Ryan: Yeah. It's such a weird concept though because it's so self incriminating. It's like continuing on with this film and I guess. Well, yeah, that infatuation with serial killers in general that I think it's kind of what kind of spurs it, uh. Spurs it even more. But yeah. The self incrimination of making a film but yourself showing how you kill people and describing it'kind of amusing to me.
Laura: Well, they
00:15:00
Laura: had explained that the film is essentially about filmmaking.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: That Ben could have been a door to door salesman for all intents and purposes. But they decided on Serial Killer and they said it's a critique on media.
Ryan: Right.
Josh: I mean uh, it seems like a stretch, but all yeah's.
Laura: I think they were kind of struggling with the fact that people were unsure of what to make of the film. And so they're like, it's not just dumb. They go, we have brains, we know what we're doing. It's not just a joke.
Ryan: There's some stuff in it though. Like you can. You can look at it as being like ah. A. Like it's a microcosm. Like it's a. It's a picture taken at the time of. I mean it's set in Belgium. So, you know, for whatever economic reasoning or economic issues that were happening at the time, it's. It's very much a snapshot of the, of the zeitgeist of the time for that film. Or at least it's, it's trying its best to do that without me having any knowledge or understanding of that particular societal situation at the time.
Josh: I guess I don't understand why there's this need though, for filmmakers to justify their work like that.
Ryan: Yes.
Josh: Um, I mean, the flip side, you know, I mean, another example of this, which is I'm struggling to think of something that's better than this. But it's like the filmmakers for a Serbian film, uh, as soon as they started getting, um, you know, started getting attacked for what they made, they backpedaled and started saying, no, you just don't understand Serbian politics. The satire of this, blah, blah, blah. I know people that were at the premiere and they said that those guys were on stage laughing about how they just wanted to make something offensive. And you know what, I think that there's value in that.
Laura: Right.
Josh: Like, does John Waters need to explain why, you know, uh, Gator, you know, Crackers Blowing Divine is like. Doesn't. Doesn't have any, you know, importance. But it does. I mean, weirdly, that scene has stuck around for 50 years. We're still talking about it and that's good. So why can't they just say, well, uh, whatever you think, you know, they don't have to say we don't have answers, even if they don't.
Laura: Yeah, I agree.
Josh: Just be a little David lynch about things.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: You know, I just think that they're.
Laura: Young boys and that might be. They made a film and they're suddenly con and it's scary and everyone wants to talk to them about this film.
Josh: And I don't mean them specifically, I just mean in general this idea that artists need to justify their work. And I'm not really an artist, uh, and there are times that I wish that, you know, there are times in my work and films, a festival curation or whatever, that I had a better understanding of, uh, filmmakers motivations. But it's also part of the fun is to not. Right, you know, uh, yeah, I don't.
Ryan: Think we're to know the intentions of a film until. I mean, I feel like that's a critic's job, is to figure out whether or not there is an actual intention to what they're making. Because at the end of the day you're just, you're just telling a story. And I think that that is, that's hard enough to do, let alone, you know, figuring out if this has like, is this really capturing the social consciousness?
Josh: There was a filmmaker years ago who told me, uh, any successful feature, anyie, any feature that gets finished requires five miracles and you require at least nine to have a good one. So that's my favorite passive aggressive thing to write now is, wow, five miracles happen to make this movie happen.
Ryan: But, uh, yeah, filmmaking is impossible for the most part. Yeah. And it's also something that we. You don't, you don't. We don't need it. We don't need it to survive, you know, we don't need it at all. But it's nice. M. It's nice. I mean, Christ, this. I would have a hard time fucking nothing if we didn't have films.
Laura: But, uh, what would I be doing with my time? Taking a walk or something?
Ryan: Well, yeah, I don't know.
Josh: I'd still.
Ryan: I'd still be wandering the streets of Edinburgh, you know, probably I'd rather just.
Laura: Be watching a movie than doing something productive.
Ryan: I'd rather be watching a movie right now.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Well, we, we wait.
Laura: T hury up.
Ryan: Finished.
Laura: In terms of how they wrote this film. So it's interesting because Remy wrote the beginning and the end. Okay. Which I find strange because we all have questions about the end because the film does feel like it has a classic end, but then it keeps going. So its'interesting for Remy to say that he wrote the beginning and the end and then he got the boys together and then they filled in the middle. So it kind of takes away my idea that the end was an afterthought or maybe a way to fill in time. So they had a good feature length.
Josh: Ye.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: Um, know.
Ryan: Yeah, I feel like. Yeah, I mean, I think we're thinking the same thing where like the logical can conclusion is that he gets arrested
00:20:00
Ryan: and that's. That's kind of like the rightful place where it should end. You know, it's kind of like In Cold Blood, you know, it's like you need to see them hang u. Um, but yeah, I think, uh, I just. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if I have any problems with the ending. Uh, as it stands right now, I think I question the ending. Um, um. But what, what, what is everyone else's interpretation of the ending? Because I think, isn't there a gangster or something that he mentions at some point who's like looking for him?
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And then that's Kind of what dispatches him. Even though if it's not particularly clear, um, it's somewhat.
Laura: I feel like it's a relative of someone he killed that's after him. And it was a gang.
Josh: That's. That's what I gathered. But I also don't have a. I don't know.
Ryan: I don't think it needs to be, like, particularly clear.
Laura: They died. So that's, uh, good.
Ryan: But it kind of also, like, I think maybe also the issue with it is that, like, that because the story feels like it has a logical ending, it's just kind of extending out something for time's sake so that it has a relatively other, you know, sort of logical ending, um, which sees everybody die. Which I kind of see is like the, you know, the first time I've made a film sort of tropy ending is that it's easier if you just kill everybody off at the end because that's the end of your movie. Um. Um. But, yeah, I think, uh. Uh, yeah, I just. I feel like. I feel like there's a slightly more logical end to the film that I just don't think we actually get.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And you're kind of left feeling a little bit, you know, tonally subdued by, like, what's. What's going on.
Laura: You're never gonna feel good no matter when the movie ends.
Ryan: No.
Laura: You're never gonna feel satisfied or happy.
Ryan: Probably not. Probably not.
Laura: It, um, doesn't bother me too much, but it does feel a little kind of. Oh, okay.
Ryan: I mean, I think the thing I do like about it because there's that, um, his friend Valerie. Like, when he finds her and she's got. Unfortunately, they've put. They've put the flute inside her. Um, and he, like, removes it and he cleans it. I, uh, do find it funny when he goes to, like, his family's shop and it's like they put the broom in my mother. Like, that to me makes me like. I thought that was kind of funny. Like, that's a nice touch. But, um, yeah, it's like, to me, it feels like it has. It's a little Lord of the Rings. He has too many endings.
Laura: I hate when people say that about Lord of the Rings.
Ryan: Well, it does. It has too many f. C. End.
Laura: It ends when it ends.
Ryan: Um, well, no extra endings he doesn't know how to use.
Laura: There's a lot of characters. You really have to wrap up all the different themesah.
Ryan: Oh, God. All right.
Josh: I mean, I wouldn't know. I'm always asleep by the time you get to that point, you guys need.
Laura: To shut your damn mouth.
Ryan: It's like, oh, Frodo's going on a boat. It's like, oh, great. Cool. How many years since areing?
Josh: Can we just watch Meet the Feebles instead? Can we just put on Dead, Alive or Bad Taste?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, those are also great movies.
Josh: Frighteners.
Ryan: Heavenly Creatures is fucking great, man.
Josh: I'll take Lovely Bones, frankly. At least that's only two hours.
Laura: I've never seen Lovely Bones.
Ryan: It's not good.
Josh: No, it's not very good.
Ryan: Lovely Bones is not very good. It's got Marky Mark in it. Is that. I know that. Yeah, he's got that fucking haircut. Holy shit. Um, well, no, you know. You know, I like Lord of the Rings. Don't worry, it's okay.
Laura: Thank you.
Ryan: Yeah, that's fine.
Laura: I'm gonna rein you guys in for a second. I have more things to say. Let me talk.
Ryan: Is it that midgets are heavierus? They're denser.
Laura: How much weight do you need to weigh down an elderly person?
Ryan: Well, it's like. Well, no, it's twice, isn't it?
Laura: It's twice their weight.
Josh: It's twice their weight because their bones aren't as dense.
Laura: They're porous.
Josh: Porous. That's the word. Yeah.
Laura: Um, I have things to say about the family, so, um, we'll go back to this. But not everyone was let in on the nature of the movie itself until partway through the production. So Benoit family, his mom, grandmother, and grandfather all play his mom, grandma, grandfather.
Ryan: Ye.
Laura: But they were told that this was a documentary on Benoit and not a faux documentary about him playing a serial killer. And his mom didn't figure out what was going on until she had to go meet him in jail.
Ryan: I mean, that's. That's actually. It's clf.
Laura: It's great.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: That's a really good way to get non actors to act.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: I mean, yeah, because they just. I mean, you only need the one take of that and you're done. You're like, all right, there you go. That's. That's. That's the arbitrary let's meet the killers family moment. And then that's it, really. And that's something you can just revisit.
00:25:00
Ryan: Easy peasy.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: Uh, yeah.
Laura: Okay. That was all excellent. We can.
Josh: Another thing about Lord of the Rings.
Laura: I'll talk about Lord of the Rings forever and ever.
Ryan: I love that Bitton Clearkks too. And it's just like, even the trees Fucking walk in those movies. Yeah, it's really funny.
Laura: That part is funny because he says I made a nerd throw up because I made fun of the Lord of the Rings so much.
Josh: There's only one Return and it's of the Jedi. Yeah, that's funny.
Ryan: Yeah. It's a shame it all went downhill for Smith at that point though.
Josh: Yeah, that really wasn't.
Ryan: Was really. Yeah, that was it. And we didn't know. We just didn't know.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: Didn't know how good we had.
Josh: We were kind of happy to have it too because he was uh, kind of solimmint there around that time Jersey.
Ryan: Girl had been made and he was kind of rot. And that's. That Jersey Girl isn't that bad. I think Jersey Girl is fine.
Josh: It is. I think that it got the same bad rap that Gilie did. It is a slightly below average. Yeah, whatever of a movie Affleletk calls.
Ryan: He's kiding that a uh, little shit.
Josh: Yeah.
Ryan: And like blames her for the death of the mother. And I thought that's. That seemenes actually very good. I mean I think that seemenes very good.
Josh: T. It isn't. Don't they. Isn't there a production of Sweeney Todd in that movie? Is that. Yes, they do a school.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Wow.
Josh: I just remember George Carlin also being pretty good in it.
Ryan: He plays. Yeah, he plays the father and he's actually. He's actually actually that. That movie. Like I'll. I'll. Yeah. I mean rest of his styling look right. Okay, whatever. But that fucking movie is actually not too bad whatsoever.
Josh: Man, I wish I had dick in it so we could do an episode on it now know.
Laura: M well, I think a lot of these have the same kind of retrospect feeling where they do so many more shit films that the ones they did earlier that you thought were shit just seem a lot better in comparison.
Ryan: Uh. I never thought Jersey Girl was like total shit though.
Laura: I never thought about it. And I never really thought about Gilie eithereah. It's kind of like a Phantom Menace as well.
Josh: I was working. I was working at a movie theater when both Glie and Jersey Girl came out. So you just couldn't escape it, right. That like. Like the only people going to those movies were doing it because they hurt how bad they were. It was really weird and none of us understood. I remember like we're a bunch of teenagers, you know. Oldest was 20, 21 of us MAYABBE and'like juie's not that bad. It's Just weird, like to have vitriol for this movie. That's just bad. Like it's fine, whatever. And it really has that great scene. The whole gobble gobble scene.
Ryan: Just awful.
Laura: Wow. I know what we're watching later.
Josh: Yeah, you'll like it.
Laura: Double feature.
Ryan: Yeah, we can, um.
Laura: Excellent. Wow. Now let's get back on the subject. Are we just trying to avoid like how fucked up this is are talking about?
Ryan: I mean're. We're doing our utmost best not to really talk about the movie too much because it's kind of just. You say like it's a faw documentary of a crew following a man who's a serial killer. I'm just like, to me, like it's, it's, it's flabbergasting like how much they get away with and how like the very concept of it is just intriguing and interesting and you're like, how far can this go? And they take it like to the limit pretty much. And for the. Yeah. I mean every single, every single particular thing that you might find a fuz. It's like it's, it's incredibly sexist, it's incredibly rac. Racist, it's very, it's very violent, it's very cruel, it's mean spirited. But, uh, it has this, this kind of comedy edge to it because it's. It's the blackest of black comedies. Like so incredibly dark. And I think, yeah, there's a lot to appreciate and like how far it takes that comedy and how far you think it's going to take you and still makes you laugh. Yeah, I think it's u. Uh, because the thing like for me, like the, the turning point in the film is, you know, it very much kind of it runs on a track, which is ironic enough because it starts on a train, but it runs on a track. And probably for me, like when the film really takes a turn is when he pretends to be that news crew and they go into that old woman's house and m. He screams on her face with the gun.
Josh: Yeah. The whole. You want to be snuffed out.
Ryan: Yeah. And she has a heart attack and she's like desperate for help and he's just like, did you see what I did there? I saw that she was taking these pills,
00:30:00
Ryan: so she's got heart problems. So this just means I didn't have to waste the bullet on her. I m love that.
Laura: That.
Ryan: All right, all right, here we go.
Laura: And hilarious, but just the weit. He's sitting next to her body and she's shaking. He's like, oh, she'll be gone soon. And he's just kind of explaining the process in such a matter of fact way to just really kind of give the crew an idea of how his job is done. And then he shows them how to find all the money. Because the point of going to these older people's houses is because he believes that older people always have money. And poor people are popuppers and they have no money. Poor people are always poor. Or young people are always poor. Sorry. And he finds all the money around the house and he was correct. And he shares it with everyone. Is that where they go to? Um, this leads in wonderfully to the penis scene actually, because he wants to take everyone out for a nice dinner of mussels and wine by, uh, the sea.
Ryan: Because they do this thing like just after that where he's like, I feel so good. We're going to drive for two Hour to the coast and we're going to go get some mussels and we're going to go to this nice restaurant, we're going to drink wine and we're going to do this. And the crew are apprehensive. And then there's that little niggle in in Remy who's like, if we don't go to dinner with this guy, we're gonna lose him and we're not go goingna be able to finish the film. And that little edge to it, which I kind of really appreciate, is that they're just like, well, you know what? Yeah, let's drive the two Hour. Let's hang out with this serial murderer. Let's just contin and see like how far we can fall into this rabbit hole ourselves because of the quality of the film that we're making.
Laura: That's interesting and I kind of agree with you there. What I was thinking was that they were going because he is a murderer.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: And they don't want to be murdered.
Laura: You don't want to be murdered because you don't want to, you don't want to piss off a murderer.
Ryan: But I never, I never felt at, at any point they were like, oh, we're in danger.
Josh: Yeah. That's the only reason I would, uh, say that. I, uh, I think Ryan has it a little bit better on that one. Just because there is never a moment where they feel unsafe.
Laura: No, no, you're right. Well, he has nothing to gain from killing them either.
Josh: Right. Because he's not like he's, he's not a serial killer to get off. Exactly. I Mean, arguably he is, but he would claim that he does it. It's a practical.
Laura: Ah, he knows they're poor.
Josh: Yeah, right.
Ryan: Y does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laura: And he likes to talk. I mean, even the actor Benoit, like, they said that he's very similar in the way that he kind of acts in the film. Not the murder stuff, but just the way he chats and he talks and he does the chat.
Josh: The rape, though, that is Pierre Benoitic.
Laura: Benoit. But they said, you know, you go to the bar with him and you don't talk. He talks the whole time. And so they're like, that's why this is perfect for him, because he. He's like, I love being on camera. He says that he has a gigantic ego, and so he loves being on camera. So that's another reason that makes total sense, that he wouldn't want to let the. You know, you don't want to lose that guy. Yeah, he talks too much.
Ryan: Yeah. But u. Uh, yeah, I mean, it's like. I mean, I hate to say it's like, oh, it's public, you know, it's like perfect subject material, but it kind of is because of how intriguing it is. But. U. Uh, yeah, no, they go. They go get. They go get drunk on wine and they have a big bowl of mussels and, uh. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah, this penis sc the first one happens about 25 minutes and 15 seconds into the film. So they are at dinner, and Benoit is full chaos. And he's kind of waxing poetic about just making up songs and poetry about paying for their dinner, and he's drunk. And it's kind of weird because I always just imagined that he did go run on the beach, but I was like, it's kind of inn intercut between them at the restaurant and then him running at the beach and then back at the restaurant and he vomits on everything. So I'm like, okay, maybe he's just in his poetry dreaming of running naked on the beach. Or did he run? Do you guys think he ran on the beach?
Ryan: It's.
Laura: It's kind of weird.
Ryan: It's. I mean, I find the moment funny regardless, because, like, that's what he's thinking about is like. It's like. Yeah, he's kind of. His poetic musings, I find, like, incredibly, um. Like, pretentious.
Laura: Oh, for.
Ryan: Yeah, certainly for someone. Because obviously, you know, sociopathy. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's like the. The care. Yeah. U. But it's. U, uh, yeah, no, I. I like the idea that it's like he's having, like, a vision
00:35:00
Ryan: that he's just, like, soaked himself into and he's. Drunken stupor. And then it's like, you know, because. What is it? He's in the vision. He's, like, running down the dune and he's, like, laughing. Everything's nice and stuff. Doesn't he see someone on the beach?
Laura: Yeah, there's someone fishing.
Ryan: And then he runs away.
Laura: It starts off from so far away where he's up on the top of the dude. And he just runs down fully naked. And, you know, it's got to be freezing cold because it's winter. And he's running, running down, and then he does like a little flip, like he's flipping around in the sand and he's jumping around, and it is so free and adorable and hilarious. Yeah. I don't know. It's great. I don't. Ryan, did we lose youay?
Ryan: No, because, I mean, there's. I didn't think. I don't know if you were speaking to me directly. I can't see you. Um, but the, uh. Yeah, no, uh, I mean, immediately when he gets to that and he's vomiting and stuff like that, it. To me, I feel like it's like it's a vision of whatever's going on and he head. I don't think it actually happens.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, I guess it couldn't. Because when they're back at the restaurant and he vomits on. On the food because he said. Didn't the waiter say something about not being a good idea to have all the muscles? And he tells the poor waiter to, like, fix his face instead and bring him the muscles. He has acne.
Ryan: Yeah, he's got plukes all over his face.
Laura: Poor boy. Uh, ye.
Ryan: That's a shame.
Laura: And then he eats all the muscles and vomits everywhere. And then when they are riding in the car home just covered in sick alough, uh, down a shirt.
Ryan: We've all been there.
Josh: Yeah, we have.
Ryan: Yeah, we've all been there. Except I wasn't in a car. I was't on a bus. O yeah. And I'd fall. Yeah, I fell on a glass and I'd cut my hand open.
Laura: Oh, my God.
Josh: Yeah, maybe we haven't all been there. I mean, I'm sure I've been in some version of that.
Ryan: Don't single me out. That's not fair.
Josh: I just wouldn't remember it. Yeah. Unrelated, there was one time that I came home, uh, so blackout drunk, couldn't get my key to work. Roommate opened the door. I'M real glad I was wearing a hat because I fell face first and the bill of the hat hit the ground. Uh, it would have been bad. That was like 15 years ago.
Ryan: Jesus Christ.
Josh: No, my finest moment.
Ryan: Fuck.
Laura: Will you still have your teeth?
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: Thank you for my hat.
Ryan: That night where I lan on the glass with my hand and I broke it and it all went into my hand. Um, that was a night where I went to my friend's house. I remember going into the living room and his flatmates were there, and I was like, h and I fell immediately straight down right in between where the coffee table and the carpet and stuff was and started, like, convulsing.
Josh: God.
Laura: Wow. How fun.
Ryan: Yeah, we had a good time, man. That was a good time. That was the snakebe night. I remember thatz.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Ryan: And I vomited on a girl's hand.
Josh: God.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: I don't think I ever thrown up on a person.
Ryan: I mean, it's a trip y that's what it is. Yeah.
Josh: Only consensually is what I mean.
Laura: I don't remember. I've thrown up on a lot of items in a lot of different places.
Josh: Not. I was never much of a vomer.
Laura: Me either. But when it happens, it sure does happen.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: Really does.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Does happen. Uh, speaking of vomit, um, I want to talk about the Christmas scene because it's, uh, at what's her name, the bartender? Malu at her. At her bar and where they make the Petite Gregory'yeah.
Ryan: We can't really do the entire episode without talking about the Petite Gregory'now. Whether. Whether or not. Whether or not we do this or not, I have some ideas, but maybe you and me are gonna. I'm curious as to how long it would take for one of those sugar cubes to melt in a.
Laura: Do it.
Josh: I think we have baby boy.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: What is it again? Is it gin and soda?
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: It's like a gin and SOA have.
Laura: It all written down.
Josh: Okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: So I can't remember.
Ryan: It says vodka tonic in my notes, so I don't know.
Laura: That might be incct a, uh, tier of gin, a river of tonic, and then the olive tight around the sugar cube.
Ryan: So it is a gin and tonic. O, yeah. So I think also the string is going to be a, uh, vital factor, like what kind of thickness of string you use. Because, like, we could use thread, which would also work.
Laura: It needs to be thick enough to where you don't eat it and it doesn't disappear.
Josh: I would use dental floss.
Laura: Yeah, Well, I guess if it was plain.
Josh: Yeah.
00:40:00
Laura: Uh-huh. Okay.
Ryan: Yeah, becausee I mean, I don't know about drinking it afterus. I can. I don't like gin and tonics anyway. I'm just curious as to, like, the timef frame. I'm soundingnna eat the olive either, probably.
Josh: It's just I want to do all of it.
Ryan: It's just I've never elet. All right, well, look, I mean, you can come back and you can drink mine if you wanted to, but. Yes.
Josh: Why didn't we serve these at uncomfortable brunch?
Laura: I don't know. Well, because when we. When you showed it, I remember turning to you and I go, we need to make these.
Josh: Yeah, right.
Laura: Right away. But now I'm feeling a little bit weird about it. We might do it anyway. But I feel weird about it because it is based on a true unsolved murder of a child.
Josh: Whatever. We fucking. We've all had Irish car bombs.
Laura: O that's fair.
Ryan: That's very true.
Laura: So in the English captions of the film, Benoit calls the drink a dead baby boy. And he says dead baby boy maybe 15 times throughout this, but in French, he's actually saying le petit gre and he says just petite. Gregory. He doesn't say dead baby boy. Yeah, because it is based on a murder of a young boy. He was four years old. Uh, his name is Gregory Villemond.
Ryan: Ye.
Laura: He was abducted and murdered. Im'm telling you the story. Okay, so it was 5 o'clock when his mother called the police. He was outside and then he was just gone at 5:30pm yeah'what was it? Delve into despair. I keep forgetting what we call.
Ryan: I know, it's a descend into darkness.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Delve into despair.
Laura: I mean, it's both good.
Josh: Either way, it works.
Laura: Ye. It works. Y so only 30 minutes after Gregory's mother had called the police, Gregory's Uncle Michel called the mom and informed the family that he had just been told by an anonymous caller that the boy had been taken and thrown into the River Valone. Okay, so this is why this is the drink is because that poor. I mean, if you look up, there's a documentary on Netflix about this. He is the most rosy cheeked, beautiful cherub of a four year old child you've ever seen in your life.
Josh: When did this happen? Um, do you know?
Laura: I don't, but I can find out.
Ryan: I think it's the 80s. Happened in the 80s. Ius. I did a wee.
Josh: I was gonna say he's probably dead now anyway. Would have been Dead now anyway, but probably not. He's on rang.
Ryan: No, no, he would have beeneah. He was. I mean, it was like maybe 80, 84. Right, there you go.
Laura: October 16th, 1984, so.
Ryan: Really? Yeah, he was born in the 80s. He'd only be four years older than.
Josh: I mean, how do you know that that kid wouldn't have grown up to be Hitler? Um, maybe it was a good thing that that kid got thrown in the river.
Laura: It's just so wild that.
Ryan: No, I love the willful ignorance of what he just said there. Just like. No, I'm not even going to engage with it.
Laura: Thank you. Yeah, it's that there's all these conspiracies that the family had something to do with it or someone had some secret that they were bribing the family or blackmailing the family, but no one knows.
Ryan: The problem is 4 year old had.
Josh: The answers to the secret and he was gonna go to the process.
Laura: But it's weird that they just immediately tossed that boy into the river. It was only four hours later, but they found him in the river after he disappeared. Like it was boom, boom. So if you want to figure out how fast that little boy rises to the river. They didn't put enough weight on him.
Josh: Yeah, that's so fun. Not enough sugar cubes.
Ryan: Cubes.
Laura: Yeah. He was just tied up, hands and feet tossed, uh, in and he floated up.
Ryan: Yeah. And it kind of. It gave us.
Laura: Hence the drink.
Ryan: Yeah, it gave us pause for thought about making a video about it, uh, and like calling it like a party.
Josh: I mean.
Ryan: And we thought we'd make it a little somber by making it like black and white and stuff.
Josh: That's so much more fucked up.
Laura: Just like the film, you know.
Josh: I know, I get what you're doing.
Ryan: Just like light, light, light.
Josh: So much more upsetting.
Ryan: Like light it. Somehow I feel like it'd be a missed opportunity.
Josh: No, I think it's great. I love it. I absolutely want to be here for this, but, uh, it's abhorrent in every way.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah. How can we do that without everyone hating us?
Josh: Oh, no, it's fine.
Ryan: We could give it. We could give it. Yeah. Just put a nice.
Josh: I've made a career out of showing nothing.
Laura: Single bells over top.
Ryan: Yeaheah.
Laura: While we tell the story about this.
Ryan: Sweet stock young Chris music. Yeah. And there's always a filter on YouTube. It's just like snow falling or something. Be nice. Yeah.
Laura: In the film though, the game is played to where, you know, you rap again. The Oliver on the Sugar cube and whoseever they call it and that's the dead baby boy or the little petite Gregory. Um, whichever rises to the top first you lose.
Josh: You the losererve lose because you didn't hide the child.
Laura: Hide the child well enough.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: I'm so sorry. Forgive m me.
Josh: Well, um.
Ryan: No, I mean you just explain something that happens in the film. Expect that video soon.
00:45:00
Laura: Oh no, yeah, we haven't done a video in a while. This I ve wanted to do it for like a year and a half but. But the more I know about that child makes me ah more and more sad.
Josh: I don't think you should think about it. I think you should just do it.
Laura: I've already thought about it enough. But this leads us because it's the Christmas part into. Oh dear.
Ryan: It's a real Christmas party this Christmas.
Laura: Party at uh, an hour, five minutes and 26 seconds which is part of the film that actually got cut out of a lot of the releases.
Ryan: Makes sense this and then the child.
Laura: Murder were cut out of the film for the edited versions but Criterion put it back in.
Josh: Yeah, good for them.
Laura: Good for them. Uh, gang rape at Christmas.
Ryan: Yeah, there's a gang rape Christmas. It's not that it's like how they force the man to watch like that's the main thing. Like that's it and then it's just.
Laura: Like'S just that shot of that man standing there with. He's just sad because he was having sex with his wife or girlfriend at.
Ryan: The time he was.
Josh: And so that's what you get.
Laura: It is wild men.
Ryan: It is wild. Well, they just break the fucking door down.
Laura: They're hammered on l Gregory door down.
Ryan: It's like the door is off the fucking hinges and she's on the kitchen table.
Laura: They're having a beautiful Christmas together and these creepos break in and create a new party of not fun things.
Ryan: That was a fantastic.
Josh: I mean they seem to be show.
Laura: They had a great time M. Yeah, they did. Nobody else did.
Ryan: It's not recommended and certainly not the way they did it. There's. There's far. Yeah, there's far better ways of doing it.
Laura: Yeah, no shit.
Josh: Far better ways of gang raping. Is that what you're trying to say?
Ryan: More pet outside.
Laura: Yes, far better ways of treating human beings. But that's not what this film was about.
Ryan: This about you don't have to gang rape. You could play Monopoly. I mean you don't have to.
Laura: This is their journey of best friendship get to.
Josh: But you get to.
Laura: This is where Their best friend journey led them.
Ryan: The most disturbing faces you've ever pulled looking at me saying that.
Josh: So wild. But you get to listen. I'm passionate about very few things in this world.
Laura: Oh, my God.
Josh: But gang rape on film. You invited me here.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: I know what I did. You knew what you were next.
Laura: Y. Well, you showed me this movie for the first time.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: In a theater full of people. Well, I was probably laughing too much.
Josh: I don't remember that. I don't remember you laughing too much. I remember people in the theater. That was one of the few times that I felt like the nervous laughter response. I felt it the entire time. Usually when that happens with a movie like that, it takes. Well, first of all, it takes well into the second act before the crowd kind of is dialed into it. Yeah. Weirdly, the worst experience of that was. Wasn't even especially uncomfortable. I showed fucking showgirls once and, uh, half of the movie, nobody was laughing or having a good time.
Laura: Where did you show?
Josh: I watched showgirls at movie trash.
Laura: We were there for that.
Josh: Yeah, I remember how. Do you remember how awkward it was somet times?
Laura: The crowd is weird there.
Josh: It was very strange. It wasn't until the sex scene in the pool.
Laura: Well, that's the greatest.
Josh: Because it is the greatest. Where everybody's like, oh, that's what this is. I didn't think that it was gonna require any educating. Like, showgirls is showgirls. Everyone fucking knows showgirls. Even if you haven't seen it, you know it.
Laura: Showgirls is perfect.
Josh: Uh, it was weird. But in any case, uh, at uncomfortable brunch, I just, uh. It seemed like that was the proper response throughout the whole thing.
Laura: Nerous later.
Josh: Yeah. The nervous laugter. Whereas come and see or dance, uh, in the dark or something like that. I. You'll hear three or four people, like, awkwardly laugh occasionally, but nobody else in the audience does. Um, this was. I don't know. This was like going to a world fererall movie on opening night. It wasn't quite like that, but it was. People were laughing. So they laughed more than they did at happiness, which is shocking to me.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: People were more uncomfortable in happiness than they were with this.
Laura: I was very nervous about watching that again, But I actually loved it so much. I laughed a lot during antichrist when you showed that. I can't handle how funny that movie is.
Ryan: It's like the child falling out of the window.
Laura: Well, when they're porking. It's so good. It's so Funny. He just falls so slow for like 10 minutes.
Josh: I don't know what you're laughing about, Ryan. I'd be very upset if my wife said that Antichrist was is funny. I would be very concerned.
Ryan: I'm not.
Laura: I am a keeper.
Josh: You guys got a millstone around here? I look out. Old pair of shears.
Laura: Okay, so we
00:50:00
Laura: were talking about Christmas, gang rape, best friends. That should be like the tagline for this episode.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: The don. We already kind of talked about the end of the film. But one of my favorite parts of the movie kind of comes after this is where they all go to dump bodies and they go to the quarry and it's all dried up and'just bodies and skulls, bones and wrapped up humans in the quarry. And he makes the crew go in and try and like dig them outah. And he's yelling at them from above the bridge.
Ryan: Ye yeah.
Laura: Ah. I love that part so much. It's very funny. That's the only part that I really, really laugh at after I thought you.
Ryan: Were goingn come in coming with a note where it was just like I know how that was done because. Yeah, yeah.
Laura: Well, I mean it seems pretty easyus some dummies down there.
Josh: O.
Ryan: Okay. I guess so just put the boys.
Laura: Down there and dig them up. Yeah. Great. Do you want to hear about some accolades?
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Um. Um. There's a lot. There's a lot. But I just kind of wrote down at Cann in 1992 it won award of the Youth and the International Critics Prize. And then in 22,002, my bad is when it was added to the Criterion Collection.
Ryan: Cool. Yeaheah.
Laura: I have a few other extra little tidbits that I want to tell you about before we wrap this bad boy up.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: And then you can add anything but only after Im done. So the films budget was basically just comprised of what they had in their pockets and what people were willing to give them. So the total budget was about 33,000American dollars. Okay.
Josh: Because they just went all the film stock.
Laura: Ye yeah. They would film and then they would run out of money. Take a couple weeks. You know, it took a long time for them to make the film. And at can, um, Quentin Tarantino was there. Okay. And he said he went to the.
Josh: Very first screening, probably this one in the same year that he had Reservoir Dogs. It can.
Laura: Right, yeah. That was one of the films that was also banned in several countries at the same time that f Manned Byes Dog and Bad Lieutenant. Uh, it was the same year as well. I think they were all banned in, like, the uk.
Ryan: Reservoir Dogs is the tamest one.
Josh: Oh, yeah. By far.
Ryan: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, by a country mile.
Laura: So he said he absolutely loved the film. And when he had tried to go to the second screening, he couldn't get past a security guard and he started a fight with the security guards and five of the guards wrestled him to the ground. This is what Quentin Tarantino said had happened. And he thinks it's very funny that he started a fight outside. The Man Bites Dog scream.
Josh: Why did they stop him? Did they say. Did he say that? I don't know. I fuck that guy, I guess.
Laura: He said that word had spread of the film and he couldn't get in.
Josh: Okay.
Laura: So.
Ryan: But he.
Laura: It was very.
Ryan: He was Quentin fucking Tarantino, Josh.
Josh: Yeah, I mean, I believe that he Believed that in 1990.
Ryan: Definly did. Yeah, he definitely did.
Laura: He goes, I wasn't famous then. But the film became famous. About this fight outside of the second screening of Man Bites'dog that was me. And he's very happy about it.
Ryan: Oh, good for him. Yeah, yeah. Like, he hasn't made a good film since Jackie Brn, so who cares?
Laura: I like Django Unchained.
Josh: Talk about a movie that has three endings.
Laura: Venus in that movie, though.
Josh: Yeah, that's true. No, I like Want Change is fine. I like Glorious's Bastards as well. But I don't disagree with the sentimentes because. Yeah, Fuck that guy'just. A dick.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Oh, my bad. Does anyone else have anything to add before we get, uh, into our ratings?
Ryan: No, I covered everything.
Josh: I don't think so.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: As our guest, Josh, would you like to go first with your visibility and context rating 0 to 5. Um.
Josh: Um, I, uh. This is always the question that I have the hardest time quantifying exactly where it lands. Uh, probably a four. Four and a half because, uh, it certainly lends itself to what we're watching. Um, is certainly visible.
Laura: It's true.
Josh: I didn't have to squint. No, no. Yeah. So, yeah, I would probably say I'll go with a four on that. Yeah.
Laura: Okay. It. Why don't. Why don't you just tell me your film rating overall?
Josh: Just. Okay. Film rating over of EAs has been, uh. That's a 4.5 is what I put on letterboxed. I'll stick with that. Uh, I don't know, something over. I've watched it a lot over the years. M. Well, not a lot. A lot probably. I've probably seen it six times in the last 20 years.
Laura: Mhm.
Josh: And uh, it has just gotten better for me.
Laura: Right.
Josh: Um,
00:55:00
Josh: you know, the satire of it. And I don't. I know we talked about this, like the specific satire of whatever. I don't mean that. I mean tonally it is such a unique film compared to a lot of other movies that have done what that tries to do.
Laura: Right.
Josh: Um, and there's other movies that have done that successfully. And you know, I certainly think of, you know, Chuck Palnc books or, I don't know, anything that's violent, that's kind of gay. And there's nothing specifically homosexual about this movie, but it's kind of gay. Course, you know. Uh, so, yeah, I don't know. I just, uh, every time I revisited, I think, man, these kids really had an interesting idea and they executed it really, really well in a way that most filmmakers probably wouldn't.
Laura: Right. Yeah. What about you, Ryan?
Josh: Um.
Ryan: Um. So for visibility in context. Because there's like two scenes here, that, that, uh, that second scene, uh, the Christmas scene, the party scene. Um. Uh, yeah, I guess, like for the context of what's happening, as horrific as it is, like, it does make sense that everything is visible because it makes it more horrific. As for. As. For like, as for like that first moment, contextually, I'm having trouble with that because I'm not 100% sure what the purposes of it. Um, as much as like the visibility is up to five, I mean, I still have to kind of wrap my head around that moment little bit more of like aundm. Like I don't fully understand, like, why it is there now. I do. Like it's there because it's odd and it just kind of happens.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: But for me, I'm kind of, you know, if you scratch your head at it. So really, like between the two different scenes and obviously the context being a little bit up in the air, at least for me anyway. I gave it. Gave it like a four. I think that's kind of the best I can give it. Um, and the film overall. So when I saw it Uncomfortable Brunch, I gave it five because I did quite like it. But for me, I think we were watching it in a relatively quite sterile environment. You know, we're reviewing it, we're analyzing it, we're looking at it a little bit differently than we would if we were just watching a film and enjoying it. Um, I gave it four.
Laura: Yeah. Cool.
Ryan: And I think that's fine.
Laura: Yeah. So for me, there must be a.
Ryan: Crim in the house if he's barking as much as he is.
Laura: Yeah. I wonder if you can hear it. Can you hear it on the recording?
Ryan: I can hear it on my headphones. But I'm, um. I'm. I'm just referencing it now because I ain't cutting shit. We haven't got enough time.
Laura: That's true. So in terms of visibility in context, I mean, yeah, the visibility is highly, highly there. That beach scene is odd. But you know what? Fuck it. Why not? Why not be weird? Throw it in there. Have this guy running around naked. He's being vulnerable, he's being free. He's running around on the beach. I don't care. It's interesting. Um, and'that Christmas scene is the absolute worst. That Christmas scene is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I used to absolutely not watch stuff if there was rape in them. I was like, you knowus, you put something on at night and you want to just have a nice time, and then it says that there's rape. You know, if you're watching something on streaming and it's like, oh, here're the themes. And I'm like, spoilers, Christmasmas. Because I might have watched it if it hadn't have told me there was rape. What? What did you say?
Ryan: That's like Christmas vacation.
Laura: Um, I don't want to watch that either.
Ryan: What?
Laura: But I don't know. But contextually, that Christmas scene makes complete sense. It is horrible. It's absolutely horrible. So I'm going to give it four, because the context on the first one's a little weird, but the context on the other one is stellar. Um, but it's nice having penises in a movie where there are boobs. There's quite a bit of boobs, but it's not like you even think about it. Nothing.
Josh: I wouldn't say it. I mean, it's.
Laura: But, um, there is a.
Josh: It is very sexual, but it is not sexy.
Laura: Yeah, it's not. It's the least sexy thing, which is one of my favorite things about having a wiener in a movie is where you're like, oh, you know, I am not aroused.
Ryan: It's because it's assault.
Laura: Exactly. And the film. I gave a four. I gave it a four when I first saw it. It gets a four now. I really, really, really, really like this movie, despite how much I hate gang rape as people do. It is disgusting.
Josh: You like this movie just a little bit more than you hate gang rape. I get it.
Ryan: I'm glad, uh, she had to make that distinction, though, where it's like, even with the gang Rape. I still like it.
Laura: I still really like it. Well, I'm noticing that about myself. I don't know what's happening.
Ryan: Oh, no, you're digging, getting into this. People
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Ryan: can interpret different ways, I think.
Laura: Well, yeah, I think that I'm just opening, uh, themes and giving other movies a chance that I normally wouldn't give a chance to.
Ryan: Again, you're continuing to interpret things differently.
Laura: What is that film that I watch? Dogville, I watched recently, and I didn't want to watch that for a really, really long time.
Josh: Just wait till you watch Manderlay.
Laura: I'll watch Manderay.
Josh: You're notnna have fun.
Laura: But I didn't have fun with Dogville, but then I did have fun with Dogville, so there's that. No spoilers, but it was great. Anyway, that's it. Um, gang rake aside, I really like this movie.
Ryan: All right. Oay good.
Laura: Wow. What a Christmas treat. Christmas treat.
Ryan: We've had Christmas treat.
Laura: Christmas Tree of December.
Ryan: Welcome to this somber time.
Josh: Last Christmas episode I was on was when I was here with, uh, Katie and Ty and Renee, and it was insane.
Laura: Yeah, this is a much smaller CRS party because we didn't schedule very well.
Ryan: It's a lot more subdued.
Josh: But, yeah, Christmas parties to be.
Laura: You know what? And you know why this. It's not even scheduling it'because no one wanted to watch it.
Josh: Oh, really?
Laura: Everyone was invited. It was either a scheduling thing or they go, you know what? I dont think I want to watch that just now. And I dont blame them, but I do want to watch it and Very great. I dont care. So, yeah, thats it. Thats it.
Josh: Fun Holiday.
Laura: Um, Episode in the books. Thank you both for being here. Josh, uh, thank you for showing this movie to me in the first place. What a treasure. What a treat. And, uh, coming to you from Milu's Bar, I have been Laura.
Ryan: I'm Ryan. I yourself A good New Year.
Laura: Oh, wow.
Josh: I'm Josh and Josh. Mary Holiday.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Marry Holiday. M m. And yeah. Um, I don't know what to say. Watch something else now, everyone.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Go watch Mandalay.
Ryan: Go to bed.
Laura: Tod.
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