The time is NOW to dig into "mumblecore": NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS! Greta Gerwig's directorial debut with co-director Joe Swanberg.
Ah, "mumblecore".
Films, that at the heart of them, focus on mini-budget, dialogue driven independent filmmaking, are, by virtue of their desires, INCREDIBLY respectful of your time. You'll be lucky to get one of these "mumble" films to hit over 90 minutes, so this beautiful 88 minute dive into the "mumblecore-iverse" was the perfect start.
NIGHTS & WEEKENDS, the Joe Swanberg and Greta Gerwig (in, effectively, her directorial debut) star, direct and write this film about a relationship over the span of its life with a year gap in-between. This is independent cinema, first and foremost, for the 2000s, a direct development of the same principals since indies conception in the 1960's.
We make some valid points with what is a great, polished introduction into the "mumblecore" sub-genre, and it's an area (and director) we'll be uncovering again in the future, even if some of us don't like the term "mumblecore".
Also, we're joined once again by our friend, and resident Greta Gerwig enthusiast, Josh Martin!
Laura: Can you hear the rain?
Ryan: I mean, I can't stop the rain. So it's like.
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura and I am joined by my co host, Ryan.
Ryan: I am here.
Laura: And we are also joined by our resident Greta Gerwig enthusiast, Josh Martin.
Josh: Yep, I'm back.
Ryan: Couldn't keep him away. That was the thing. Greta, uh, one sniff at Greta.
Josh: Greta Gerwig titties and some Swanberg dick. You know I'm going to be there. Love that shit.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: That's a sandwich. That's a soft sandwich right there.
Laura: We are not soft.
Josh: When I get to it.
Laura: We are talking about the 2008, uh, we will describe what Mumble Core is. Um, film nights and weekends. Starring Greta Gerwig. Joe Swanberg. I wrote J Duplass in it, but he's only in it for like a moment.
Ryan: Yeah, he's like a passing. He's like passing in the wind.
Josh: Like Lyn Shelton cameo. They all work together. They all show up in each other's stuff.
Laura: They're all best friends.
Ryan: I refer to his appearance as a mumble cameo because he's just kind of there. But they're all kind of interspersed. Yeah, they're kind of all interspersed, as in like you'll see the same names working on the same films within this kind of this subgenre. But obviously we'll get into like, Mumble Core. I don't like the term Mumble core.
Laura: Well, nobody does.
Ryan: Nobody does. It seems like it's disparaging. And I think it's a little bit yeah. I mean, I'll get into it when we get into it, I suppose. But, uh, I've never thought about it that way. I'll strike my case, I guess.
Laura: Well, no one in interviews that I have read have liked it. They kind of gloss over it. But Mumblecore, in terms of defining what it is, is a genre that began on the independent film circuit in the early 2000s, consisting of low budgets, naturalistic dialogue, and character portrayal. Handheld camera work was also involved. So it's basically just a dialogue driven indie film is Mumble Core.
Ryan: Yeah. Which is kind of like I mean, it's the very basis of what is American independent cinema, at least from its conception in the 1960s.
Josh: Right. I mean, there is an argument to be made that, um, Andrew I always script Bajalski. I always m mess up his last name, that he may have been one of the first. I mean, he's part of the Joe Swanberg crew. He's in. Hannah takes the stairs. But his first feature funny, ha ha. And then followed up by Mutual Appreciation in 2005, are two of the most defining of that subgenre.
Laura: I've read that people have called Andrew Bojowski the godfather of Mumble Core.
Josh: Um, interestingly, he's about to come or he's going to be doing a zoom Q A, uh, in November with M, his movie computer, um, chess.
Ryan: Oh, fuck.
Laura: I just watched that.
Josh: Oh, really? Yeah. They're going to be playing it at NZN and he's, ah, going to do a zoom, um, Q and A.
Laura: Uh, sign me up for that.
Josh: His work post, ah, Mumblecore has been really interesting. Support the Girls is a really fun movie.
Laura: I'm excited because I've kind of gotten into this hole with all these guys in this interconnected best friend's web that they have woven.
Ryan: It's a really rich, um, kind of slice of Americana. Kind of like indie cinema, right?
Josh: It does hearken back to something that you would have seen maybe in the 60s or 70s, but outside of the Hollywood system. Um, uh, it's interesting to see that.
Ryan: It reminds me a lot of early Cassavettis and those ideals that he kind of brought to the fray because obviously, I think his most prominent independent film is probably Shadows. It's not his best film, but it's the film that basically said at the time that you have no excuse not to be able to make a film of your own. Because he made Shadow with effectively just him and obviously friends and members of, uh, his acting class. And they had some lights, they had a camera, and they just went off and they made a film, basically. And it's in the exact same principle as, uh, what effectively quote, unquote, Mumble core is what is.
Josh: Yeah. Well, these guys came in and just set up their own rules and said, we're going to define our own film language and do it on our own terms. The technology has changed. It's become cheaper at the time. And I think Nights and Weekends is probably the most polished, uh, to date of 2008 of all those, um, and you'll even see that in the credits where Greta Gerwig and Joe Swanberg are the only ones credited as writers and directors, where the collective is usually credited. Everybody involved because the whole thing is improvised. They all collectively come up with bullet points as to where they want the plot to go and they just sort of throw themselves into it and let it go. This is a little m more of a movie movie than that, I think.
Ryan: True.
Josh: Um, which is probably why I like it so much. I think it's kind of a middle ground between his movies that he made later, like Drinking Buddies and um, uh, Digging for Fire, some of those the Jake Johnson stuff.
Laura: I like digging for fire.
Josh: Digging for Fire is a fun movie.
Laura: We're going to talk about that.
Laura: That's another thing I like about Mumblecore, almost specifically swamburg Mumblecore, is that there be dicks. Yeah, there be dicks in so many.
Josh: A vast, vast, vast majority of mean. I think that we maybe have a little bit of a missed opportunity here with doing nights and weekends because kissing on the mouth has him masturbating in the shower to completion.
Laura: I'm not saying that we're not going to do that.
Josh: Okay. Let me know when you want to do that because I have something to.
Laura: Say about this Greta Gerwig thing. Because she's so popular.
Josh: She is very popular right now.
Laura: And so I thought talking about her kind of that makes sense. Sort of directorial debut.
Ryan: I also think Nights and Weekends is a good opener to this subgenre in general.
Laura: Because once we dip into once we dip into the other ones, it's going.
Ryan: To get because certainly, I don't know, does Creep Two fall under this?
Josh: Very, uh, loosely, I think that there's really the only horror movie that I know of, uh, I think is, uh, Baghead.
Laura: I watched that last night.
Josh: Yeah, the Plots brothers did that with Green. Greta Gerwigs in that as well. I think that's a really interesting movie.
Laura: I actually really liked that movie. And there's no dick in it, though.
Josh: That's true.
Ryan: The only thing I like about the.
Josh: Guys in that EW the only thing.
Ryan: I like about the only thing I like about the fact that Mumble Core is a thing, as much as I don't like the term, is that there's a subgenre of the subgenre, which is Mumble Gore, which is the horror mix of the subgenre.
Josh: How many more of those are there? There's got to be stuff.
Ryan: I have no idea. Yeah, I think it's anything that has, like a horror element of it that is already situated within the Mumble Core genre. And I don't have any kind of specific titles, if anyone no one sees my notes at the moment. Like, one page is dedicated just to Joe Swanberg and another page is just dedicated to Greta Gerwig. And then Mumble Core, I still have two more pages of notes just on the film itself.
Laura: I think if you're saying it like that, I think you probably could fairly easily put Creep or Creep Two into that subgenre.
Josh: Because I don't think Mumble Core is also just not just a genre that, um, is defined by the dialogue and the way that the scripts are written and performed. It's also the way they're shot.
Laura: Exactly.
Josh: They're shot in digital video, handheld, loose and quick. I mean, that's a reason small crew of, uh, best friends and sometimes make a movie while they're making a movie. They're so overlapping. How many movies did he make in 2011 or whatever? It's like five or six, right?
Ryan: Seven, I think.
Josh: Seven? Yeah.
Ryan: Seven films.
Josh: And I remember back then, at the time, he had a deal with, um what's the company Factory? Um, 25.
Laura: Okay.
Josh: They were putting out his box sets of his movies that would have like, eight movies in them. They'd sell them for $150. And in his mind, he would say he's like, are you kidding me? I can sell 100 of those and finance two or three movies.
Laura: Wow.
Josh: Uh, because that's just how quickly they were pumping them out.
Ryan: Um, I love the fact that he's able to do that, though. I love the idea of just being given a bunch of money, and it's like, oh, yeah, ah, I could make three films with this. I don't need to squander this cast trying to make something that's far too overbloated or whatever it is. And it's like getting back to the basics and the purity of just cinema in general, which is part of the reason why I actually really enjoy nights and weekends. But the thing I also have as well, is that we look at this as like a subgenre. And obviously, independent film is not an unfamiliar concept, as in we're looking at it from, say, 50 years ago, from the 1960s kind of coming into this. And obviously this is 2008, and I would even go so far as we talk about the digital film format and all these sorts of things. I mean, we've already had like, Blair Witch Project, and then I'd also kind of look at like soderbergh and stuff like that, where obviously in the 90s, you've got indie films that are basically kind of pushed into the mainstream. So for here, this is almost as far as I'm aware, this is more reactionary to the fact that because everything's cyclical, um, you have big budget films, you always have a subset of filmmakers who are just like, well, we can't operate within the big budget filmmaking structure. We will just go out there and we will make our own tiny little films to hopefully find their audience.
Laura: Well, yeah, but that's also probably the films that they wanted to make.
Laura: And speaking of conversations, uh, that's not the best way to do it, but I want to tell you the synopsis of nights and weekends.
Ryan: Yay. Yeah. Let's get there.
Laura: One sentence, baby. A man and woman must face the tension that builds between them during a long distance relationship.
Josh: That's all it's about.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: 79 minutes. That's it. Mumble core movies are all under 80 minutes.
Laura: They're all under 80 minutes.
Josh: Sometimes they're under 70 minutes.
Laura: I could cry. Uh, that's probably why. If you looked at my letterbox from yesterday, I think I watched like five or six movies.
Ryan: They're so respectful of your time and they're fun.
Laura: And there are moments where some of these films, like, even in this one, where even with the short runtime, it gets a little slow, but you don't feel it as much because you know that you're only contracted for a short amount of time. So you go, okay. Ah, it's fine.
Josh: I think the last movie he made called Build the Wall, which you can only buy on VHS.
Ryan: That's the last year. That's the last one.
Josh: I have it. I have the VHS of it.
Ryan: There's a VHS copy of that movie.
Josh: That's the only physical media that exists of that movie. Holy. But that movie is only like 55 minutes long.
Laura: Okay, great.
Josh: Ken Osborne and, um um fucking from little Children and happiness.
Laura: Uh oh. Is it that Patrick guy?
Josh: No, the woman.
Ryan: From Hat at the.
Josh: Opening scene with John Lovett.
Ryan: Uh, no, you're going to have Jane Adams.
Josh: Jane Adams right there. Okay.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: Jane Adams was in one of the other things I watched the other day.
Josh: Uh, yeah, she's in a lot.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: But yeah, you should watch Build the Wall. It's pretty good.
Laura: Well, I got to borrow your tape player. Dick in it, too.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: Got a lot of work to do.
Josh: Ken Osborne, man known for Dick and Joe Swanberg movies. And Adventure Time.
Laura: We are going to have to dedicate one calendar year to all these movies. It's going to be a weird year.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: Are you just going to have me on every episode? Because I know more than I should.
Laura: Sure.
Ryan: Potentially.
Laura: No.
Josh: You know what?
Laura: We'll just start a new podcast.
Josh: Well, look, Joe Cox.
Ryan: Yeah. Mumblecox.
Josh: No.
Ryan: Um, to be honest, if we did that, we'd either be the success of the podcast or the death of the podcast.
Laura: It's just a special series.
Ryan: That's the one we're going to put on Patreon. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. If I keep on hearing the word fucking Patreon, I'm going to fucking kill myself. Um, right.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: So this film is directed co directed by Joe Swanberg and Greta Gerwig. So let us hand it off to Rydog.
Ryan: Jesus.
Laura: Um, we'll see what you do with this because good luck.
Ryan: So, yeah, this is the first time we've done a two fur. So obviously, Joe Swanberg, we'll start off with him because we'll get to Greta soon enough. Um, he's an American independent filmmaker, uh, obviously of micro budget films, uh, often focus on relationship, sex, technology, and the filmmaking process. Now, his filmography and we've kind of mentioned quite a fair amount of his films already, is incredibly extensive. Um, which I think is good. Ah. I don't know if this guy keeps on going at the rate that he's been going. It's kind of like rivaling a Takeshi Mike sort of situation who makes at least three or four films every year. Um, but I don't know if I want to kind of pick out some of the notables here because the list is so long. But let's just we'll go through some of it and we'll kind of pick out some of the main things. So Kissing on the Mouth came out in 2005. Law came out in 2006. But Law yes, Lol, um, marked, uh, the first workings with, uh, Greta Gerwig. Um, but she's also in his next kind of two films, which is Hannah Takes the Stairs in 2007. And then obviously the film that we're covering today, which is Nights and Weekends in 2008. And then kind of after that. And obviously when we get into 2011, which is I incorrectly said it was seven. It's actually just six. Again, it was one short.
Laura: Still a lot.
Ryan: It's still a lot of fucking films. Uh, Alexander the last came out in 2009. Uncle Kent came out in 2011. And then it's Silver Bullets the same year. Caitlin plays herself for the same year. Autoerotic the same year. Art History the same year, and The Zone the same year.
Josh: Most of those are shy of an hour long. They're glorified short films. Yes, I have most of them.
Ryan: I think the only reason they'd probably be classed as feature films is because they're getting up to the cusp of 60 minutes.
Josh: Yeah. Well, Academy standard is 40 and a half minutes.
Ryan: Yeah. So like, every time you send something to a festival, I think it's like.
Josh: Anything over 40 minutes, fucking 39 minutes long. Doc short. I know exactly what that shit is. It might be amazing. I'm not saying it's not. Keep making your art and expressing yourself. I love it. It's so rewarding.
Ryan: Here's my thing. Um, this is just something this is like a kind of quick segue. But I think if you can't make a fucking short film that's anything that's like under 15 fucking minutes, it's not a short film. That just means you can't tell the story in 15 minutes. Anything that's like 30 minutes, it deserves to be on TV. Anything other than that, you're like, no, you need to make it either 70 or 80 fucking minutes long. So you really need to make your fucking mind up. I don't understand it myself. Fucking hate seeing that shit.
Ryan: Anyway, here we are. We're back. VHS. He also did a segment which was called, ah, the Sick Thing That Happened to Emily when she was Younger. That was in 2012. After that, in 2000.
Josh: Movies are pretty interesting. Those fall under your mumble core horror, I would say.
Laura: And they have a dick in them.
Ryan: Yes. What's the best one out of that? I think it's VHS. Two.
Josh: Two is the one that I think is really good.
Ryan: Yeah, I think two is really cool. We watched VHS recently and I was.
Laura: His segment was pretty good.
Ryan: His segment's really good. But the problem is you have to go through a bunch of shite before you get there.
Laura: Wasn't his segment the one with the video camera? And then someone was getting filmed, like someone's walking into the hotel room. It's so creepy.
Josh: Yeah. Yes.
Laura: So creepy.
Josh: Yeah.
Ryan: Ah, it's really clever. I think that's the one thing I actually quite admire about Joe Swanberg, is like, his handling of the medium within the constraints of this subgenre that's kind of been thrust within the low budgets.
Josh: What's kind of funny, too, is that he's able to kind of put, uh, a humorous spin on it from time to time. Like, um, Ty West is also part of this little group. Uh, just noticed that. Yeah, I just, um but he directed The Sacrament, which, um, plays out like a mockumentary, but it's supposed to be an actual Vice documentary that's being produced at a Jonestown kind of thing. Uh, Joe Swanberg plays the videographer, but he's actually running the camera because he knows how to. So he's acting as the videographer, uh, while this crazy shit is happening, but also in real life, shooting it.
Laura: Oh, my God.
Josh: So they're talk about cost, uh, effective. Those guys know what's up.
Ryan: So we're very close to the end of his filmography. And I'm only covering it because we're going to return to Joe Swanberg at some point over the course of, uh, the tenure of this podcast. In 2012, he also made Marriage material. And then also in 2012, he made All The Light in the sky. And then, obviously, we mentioned Drinking Buddies in 20, 13, 24 Exposures, came out the same year in 2013, Happy Christmas. In 2014, Digging for Fire, that we mentioned also, which is 2015. Win it all in 2017. And then from 2020, build the Wall.
Ryan: So Greta let's go and talk about Greta gerwig. This is why everyone's here for, I suppose, so much. Um, so I guess in contrast to Joe Swanberg, I mean, we're kind of more familiar with her as an American actress, but then also she's a screenwriter and she's also a director. And I feel like she's obviously come into more prominence in the mainstream, as opposed to, say, Joe Swanberg, who kind of really hasn't done that. But I don't think that's not a detriment to himself either. Um, so let's just say Greta's worked in independent films, obviously acting and writing. And a lot of that is like co writing credits. Um, but obviously that's made her move into making more major studio films. And obviously she made the smash hit that was, uh, Barbie. So it's kind of very difficult to kind of avoid the fact that she's obviously kind of gone on to have quite an illustrious career. So she's partnered with Noah Bound Back, and they've kind of been together for a wee while. But you can obviously tell that their influence is very much, uh, a creative one, and that she's in Greenberg, which was obviously 2010, and then Francis Ha, which I would say is probably the seminal piece, um, from 2012. Um, and obviously she's acting in a whole bunch of things.
Laura: Do you know what's embarrassing about that? I spoke to you about it, Ryan. The first time I saw Francis Ha, I was in an airport. And I was locked in the airport because all the flights got shut down and I was poor. So I was watching it on my phone in the airport. And it was bad and I didn't like it. Um, when I watched it on my phone in a closed airport. And then I watched it the other day and I cried. I love it so much.
Josh: So uncomfortably close to home at times. Yeah, the first time I saw it was I was doing a tech screening because it was showing at theater I was working with. And, um, I'm watching it, and there's the line where she says that Sophie her best friend, Sophie always makes fun of her because she can't account for her bruises in the morning. Like she's out at night and falls or whatever. Uh, I was 27 as well. Same age as Francis in the movie. And, uh, I definitely had a black eye. And I didn't know why I had it because I had been drinking the night before. Yeah, uh, it was really depressing. Um, but side note, though, to that, which was really fun, was that, um, at that point in time, in 2013, I was still a big fan of Mumble, uh, Core. I was into that whole thing. And we got word from IFC that they were arranging for Zoom or I'm sure actually, at the time, it was Skype, skype Q and A's with filmmakers. And we were showing Frances ha. And so opening night after the 09:00 P.m. Show, she zoomed in. And we were able to do a Q and A. But we knew about it just a week in advance. And so at the Admin meeting, sitting around, uh, keep in mind I'm the 27 year old sitting there. Uh, uh, the president of the theater is like, well, who's going to do it? He's like, Josh, I think you should do it. I'm like, there's got to be somebody more qualified than me. And he's like, you just told us everything about everything she's ever made. I think you're qualified. And so I got to moderate, uh, a Q and A with her. And she was so sweet. Like, very strange, but kind of quiet. Very nice, though. It was one of the most interesting, uh, experiences I ever had working with an artist, uh, in that capacity. She's just really kind. And I did bring up because I said, well, when are we going to see in the director chair again? Because I'm a big fan of nights and weekends. And she was like, I can't really talk about it, but we have something coming up. And that thing ended up being Ladybird.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: So that was, uh, I think what ultimately pushed her. I mean, certainly Frances Ha put her in the spotlight. But then, uh, the critical acclaim and commercial success of Ladybird really was good for her.
Laura: Sorry about that, Ryan.
Josh: Sorry, Ryan.
Ryan: No, you're okay. Um, I was expecting you to bring that up because I knew about that story before.
Laura: I love that story. I think it's so neat. And I think that Greta is cool.
Ryan: Well, the thing is, it immediately clashes with anything that you feel like you've heard before, where it's like, oh, god, I've got to moderate this Q A with, say, like, this name in the industry. And it's the worst fucking experience you've ever had.
Josh: Well, that's the thing is, I think a lot of people think that, like, oh, my god, you get to meet a celebrity. It's actually kind of nerve wracking because are they going to be a piece of shit? Is the audience going to be pieces of shit? It's not as straightforward as maybe some people think.
Ryan: Yeah. But I would say in terms of her films and the way she's kind of put things out, I mean, she's said this herself. A lot of her writing comes from the things that she's experienced in her own life. Um, so in terms of co written projects, this is kind of again, this is her filmography. We're kind of doing it slightly differently in that she's kind of acting in a lot of stuff. But then she's also co writing the same things whilst also acting in them. Um, so obviously, she co wrote Hannah Takes the Stairs in 2007. Obviously nights and weekends as a co director as well. And then all she did, she did co write Northern Comfort in 2010. Obviously, Francis Ha and then Mistress American, uh, in 2015. And then obviously with her directing stuff, we mentioned Ladybird, which was 2017. This is kind of where she propels to doing slightly more exclusively directing things. And then obviously, we have Little Women in 2019 and then Barbie in 2023. But she's also penned to be writing the, uh, I guess the reboot live action reboot Disney reboot of Snow White for, uh, 2024. So can't wait for that one.
Laura: All those new Disney movies have been poor.
Laura: Do you want to hear my trivia tidbits first or should we talk about the movie? What do you think?
Ryan: I mean, we usually end with trivia.
Laura: Okay. It's a lot Chicago.
Ryan: We're in Chicago. Yes.
Laura: Finally together. Ready to pork.
Josh: I don't like going to Cuss called that.
Laura: I've said that gross.
Josh: I know you have. I think that's gross.
Laura: They're ready to make love.
Ryan: That's so much worse. Yeah, it's awful.
Josh: My lover.
Ryan: Oh, my god. I'm so in love with you.
Laura: They're going to have sex.
Josh: There you go.
Laura: These two, uh, people, um, I don't know who was doing the sound for this. I think it was one of the producers because they're all friends. But there is a lot of loud mouth noises going on in the beginning of the film. Lots of wet mouth kisses.
Ryan: Big smoochies.
Laura: Uh, I don't love that.
Ryan: Okay. I mean, I think it's coming from them.
Laura: Where did you think that I thought it was coming from?
Ryan: Well, I don't know. I thought you were like, there's other people in the room making the noise.
Laura: No, I just didn't know if the boom was too close to their mouth.
Josh: It was ADR.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: They were like, you know, this thing needs, uh, more wet mouth kisses. Absolutely.
Ryan: J duplass is just like, I need more of a contribution.
Laura: It doesn't sound wet enough, guys. Make it wetter.
Josh: Make it wetter, Joe.
Ryan: Make it wetter.
Josh: So much.
Laura: Speaking of wetter, these soft young bodies of these two people mashing up against each other. Sweet. Joe Swanberg's got the softest little young man body.
Josh: I love it. Movies always have realistic looking people.
Laura: And I'm not shitting on just, uh I liked that. I'm like, look at his cute, soft body.
Ryan: We're also very realistic looking people.
Josh: I mean, Greta Gerwig is much more attractive than, uh he's not he's not an unattractive man.
Laura: He's just a regular looking white man.
Josh: I don't think he's very attractive.
Laura: He just looks like all of the guys that I went to.
Ryan: I wouldn't fuck him.
Laura: He looks like my middle school.
Josh: Um, I guess that's what it is. He looks like a middle schooler to me.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: And I don't like middle schoolers.
Ryan: Well, he's got that chin. He's got that chin.
Josh: Sexually or other one?
Laura: The chin strap.
Josh: Yeah, chin strap.
Ryan: Where I'm just like yeah, it was.
Laura: There and I hated it.
Ryan: Yeah, it doesn't look great.
Laura: I would have broken up with him just for that.
Ryan: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he's punching above his weight. But then yeah, I mean, I guess.
Josh: It'S well, they kind of comment on that in the movie where he talks about, uh, his perceived handsomeness versus what it really is. There's a whole conversation about that in the film, uh, where he openly admits, oh, yeah, I'm not an attractive person, but I have this projected fake confidence that becomes real confidence. All right.
Laura: Yeah, that works.
Ryan: That's how that works. Yeah.
Laura: Well, we get to drop into a.
Josh: Dick scene fucking right away.
Laura: Two minutes in, straight away. It's post title card, but it starts.
Josh: With that, that's the opening scene is sex on the kitchen floor.
Laura: Sex on the kitchen floor. Uh, straight from the airport. Getting it in, getting it done. I like it so much, despite the wet mouth sounds, this whole opening bit. Because you don't really know what's going on. You just know that these two people want to get down and dirty.
Josh: And, um, I'm here for it. But it's not dirty either. I know that's not what you mean. You're using it. But I mean, there's something very innocent about the way that it's shown.
Laura: Oh, for sure.
Josh: That's what I they're laughing. They're playful. I don't know.
Laura: I like that mismatched underwear. Like trying to pull socks off. They want it and they want it now, and they're going to get it.
Ryan: I wouldn't say the moment itself is, like, particularly sexy. It's incredibly relatable.
Josh: Yeah. It's not sexy. It's not hot. I, um, don't think it's meant to be. It's not fallacious in any way.
Ryan: No, it's just very naturalistic because it's something that's quite relatable.
Josh: A conversation that I feel like we've had before, maybe I don't remember exactly, but I think this would be a good way to talk about it. Is that what is it that defines pornography? Let's say that that scene did show Penetrative unsimulated sex. It still wouldn't be pornography. Right. Uh, I don't think anybody's jerking off to that. I mean, maybe I don't, uh that no, I didn't either.
Laura: Ryan?
Josh: Ryan.
Ryan: Um. I don't know.
Josh: Oh, take it a little long to answer?
Ryan: I wasn't allowed to answer. No, I don't didn't I don't have an issue with it because I'm also a spongy boy. But at the same time, um yeah, no, I'm just like, oh, we've all been there trying to get our clothes off. Yeah.
Josh: Brian, did you not know I'm a virgin?
Ryan: Um, it's really hurtful. I mean, I know.
Josh: Now I'm saving myself for Jesus. That's right.
Ryan: So when you get up to heaven, is that what happens? When you go to heaven? Yeah.
Laura: God, you're going to remind me of all those Facebook posts.
Ryan: I'm not going to lie.
Laura: Know that we're religious that are like, Jesus, just get inside me, Lord. Fill me up.
Ryan: Uh, Jesus is no sloppy party bottom. I, um, can't see that happening. You're going to come over to my.
Josh: I mean I mean, it's just a guy named Jesus that I'm picking up at Home Depot. He thinks he's going to be mowing my lawn. Nope. I'm raping.
Laura: You guys, this movie hasn't even started yet.
Ryan: Well, uh, it technically has.
Laura: Jesus Christ.
Josh: Hey, you guys invite me.
Laura: All right?
Josh: Do you assume that I'm not going to make a joke like that? That's on you.
Ryan: I wouldn't have used the R word, though. I would have been like, you're going to whine and dine them. Um, you're going to set them down.
Josh: Oh, no, it's going to put something in his drink.
Ryan: Yeah, you're going to something in his mouth.
Josh: Um.
Laura: Get back to the point. What the fuck is happening?
Ryan: Jesus Christ. Oh, wait, no, I got to stop saying that.
Laura: Jiminy Cricket.
Josh: God has crystal.
Ryan: No one's looking for him after you tell him to leave broken.
Josh: Boxers inside out. Bloody jeans.
Laura: Stay prayed up, you guys.
Ryan: Oh, God. There's a reason he's the owner of uncomfortable brunch. That's it. Yeah. It all makes perfect sense.
Josh: Sorry, Laura.
Josh: Go ahead, finish your this was the.
Laura: First, uh, scene that they shot for the film, uh, naked on the kitchen floor.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: And, um, Swanberg's got, like, a half chub. Like a legit.
Ryan: He does have a half chubby.
Laura: Half chub. That might just be a boner.
Josh: The way he was sitting. I could see that. I bet you if he was standing, it would seem a little bit bigger.
Laura: Yeah. Which is we don't see that often, especially on the films that we've covered in the podcast. I think there was one that we talked about for Red Road. That was a boner.
Ryan: I mean, the defense.
Laura: That was an erection.
Josh: That's what you mean being an erection?
Laura: An actual penis on film.
Ryan: I mean, under the, uh, skin is the one where it's going, is that.
Josh: Real or is that prosthetic?
Ryan: We're under the impression that it's real.
Josh: Yeah. Okay, cool.
Laura: Real until told otherwise.
Ryan: I don't know. You're smiling.
Laura: True.
Ryan: Yeah. You do find this stuff funny. Most people have taken I can also.
Laura: Take a dick, as in this dick scene at two minutes and 29 seconds into the film. Thank you very much. Joe Swanberg's penis that we see three times during this film.
Ryan: We do, yes. Ah. Um, we do.
Laura: So if we're going to break down this scene, there's not too much to break down. It's two people on a kitchen floor pulling each other's clothes off. Um, and what happens if you have a camera wide watching two people and you're taking your clothes off? A penis pops up. That's just what happens. I just think it's very interesting that, um, it's erect. But what are you going to do? You're in this scene?
Josh: It struck me as though there wasn't a whole lot of blocking to that scene. I think they just kind of did it.
Laura: The producer said that they blocked that really several times.
Josh: Oh, weird. I mean, they must have done a very good job because it does not feel like it.
Laura: Yeah, they blocked it several times. And they also said they had to reshoot it because they first shot it at night. And then they did it again because they didn't like it. Yeah, there was some practice that went into that bad boy. And that penis came out every time.
Ryan: I assume it sets the stage for the overall, um, the stylistic, um, look of the film as well, because obviously, it's shot on digital. But for the most part, almost every single scene is one single take. And it's all one handheld wide for the most part. There's not a lot of close ups in the film. The camera does zoom in at points, but it's kind of like it's indicative of the fact that you're operating on a mini DV camera. You do have that option, so you can do that. Um, but for the most part, yeah, it's just a handheld DV camera. Pretty much stationary in one place each of the scenes. And they're just kind of obviously kind of chained together.
Laura: The scene after this is where they're taking a shower, or Swanberg's taking a shower and Greta Gerwig's gotten out of the shower. But there's something I really, really like about this. And this is about two minutes, 58 seconds, like literally 30 seconds after the first scene. There's another one, but it's just post coital shower time. And there's a moment where Greta Gerwig I don't even know their characters names.
Josh: Maddie and James.
Laura: Jesus. I'm not even going to say those. Greta Gerwig is sitting outside of the shower in a towel, and Joe Swannberg's still in the shower. But there's a moment where he's kind of toweling himself off and the camera moves as he so like, he bends down to kind of towel himself off and the camera moves. So you see his penis and you see his whole body, which I don't know, I just found that choice interesting that they wouldn't just hold the camera there. I don't mind it because I think that that's great. It's just like when you have a shot from that angle, and then it moves up and down. Do you know what I mean? You wouldn't typically see a guy's penis in the shower if you're shooting it like that. Am I wrong, Ryan?
Ryan: Um, yeah. I'm kind of wondering what you're getting at.
Laura: Let's say you have a man in a shower, right?
Ryan: Right.
Laura: And he's bending down and towing himself off. The camera. Doesn't typically, in a film, move with him while he's telling himself off, like, tilt up and down?
Ryan: No, not ordinarily. But I mean, I guess there's a lot of freedom to the way that this film is being shot because of how naturalistic it is just by design. So I guess that's the point I'm getting at. Yeah, I guess that's maybe the main reason why it's just one of those things. We don't need to see that. But, I mean, I guess realism by just the design and how it's been depicted in cinema is that it's engaging, but it has this weird voyeuristic quality. So certainly if you think about Italian neorealism films, there's films out there. I think it might be litter trauma. I can't really remember, but there's like an extended scene of just a woman sweeping on the floor. I kind of feel like that's an extension of this, where it's kind of like there's no need to cut away. This is just what's happening. Because this is realism as far as they're concerned.
Josh: Yeah. Kind of like what I was talking about earlier, where I felt like this was maybe a more polished version of what he had been working towards.
Ryan: Yeah.
Josh: Um, I think that things like that he spent the previous few features, uh, kind of figuring out where maybe it was intentional, maybe it was just creating an environment on set that made it so that the camera, uh, operator just went with it. Uh, feeling it could be any of those things. I wasn't there. But regardless, you can tell that he is getting better at expressing what he wants, uh, just to see the progression of his filmography. This seems like a real turning point for me.
Ryan: Yeah, it feels like a film that there's this real emphasis on giving these individuals, be it behind the camera or in front of the camera, just a degree of freedom so that they're able to enact these things appropriately. That's kind of what I get from this. Um, and I would say if we want to use Casavetti's as an example, for the most part, a lot of his films are shot on sticks. There's not a lot of handheld stuff in that. But certainly he's allowing the action to play out, and he has placed the camera in what he feels is the most appropriate place for the action to take place. And he's not telling people particularly to do very certain things. They are doing them and just kind of by design. So I guess this is why we're seeing a lot of wides, we're not seeing a lot of close ups. And I guess kind of there's this big difference, like this kind of gaping difference between I don't want to say, like something that's uncenamatic, but I guess what you would feel to be a kind of more conventional telling. Of a story where you start from a wide and you move in slightly closer in order kind of to create drama as opposed to this, where the drama is unfolding and you're kind of seeing it from, say, the passerby sort of perspective. Um, which is kind of what I've seen realism in film, um, to be or at least kind of the best aspects of what that can be in cinema.
Laura: Yeah, I like this film a lot in terms of what the original intention was, which was a relationship story. And just through filming it and then through their own personal circumstances and relationship with one another, it turned into a different film. So originally, just being a relationship story, it's now basically a breakup story and just a moving on from a relationship type of story. So it's kind of split up into uh, two parts, like ah, before and an after. Like a one year later type of thing.
Laura: Um, so I wasn't sure how much we were going to talk about little bits in the movie because there was a lot of stuff I wrote down that made me laugh.
Josh: Like the banana banana thing's funny. I don't respond to sarcastic fun.
Laura: I don't respond to sarcastic fun. I liked a lot.
Josh: Big fan of that. I think that something that's really great about this film is how layered it is. And uh, we talked about how respectful it is of our time. Uh, it crams a lot in there and I think it has some really interesting tricks that it took from other films. Certainly one of glaring, uh, thing I noticed was um, I saw it in uh, closer as well. And it's been in a lot of films, but um, the advancement, um, in time, but not being super clear about it most of the time, outside of the One Year Later title card, there are obvious leaps in time that take place, but you don't really know exactly how much it is.
Laura: Right.
Josh: And I really like that. It's a little disorienting, but it also lets the audience give it a little bit of leeway, uh, maybe. Um, and it gives you the opportunity to put those pieces together on repeated viewings. Like, I think it wasn't until the second or third time that I saw it that I realized after the One Year later when he's meeting her again, that he was on the phone with a girlfriend or something. Oh, yeah, I didn't realize that. So when he meets up with Greta Gerwig and eventually they have sex, he's cheating on his current partner that's something I didn't even realize the first time I watched it.
Laura: I realized it when we watched it the first time, and I was, um, like I'm like, wasn't he saying I love you to someone on the phone just a minute ago? And luckily, we could tell the change of time because he shaved off his chin strap.
Josh: We do know that. Yes.
Laura: So that is helpful.
Ryan: Yes. You didn't need the title card for that thing to disappear.
Laura: It, uh, seemed like longer than a year.
Ryan: I liked, for sure, to me.
Josh: But I think that there was quite a period of time from the beginning of the movie until the one year later. I think that that's like a year.
Laura: When he ends up calling her out of the blue. She's incredibly surprised. I can't believe that he's calling me. It just seemed like longer than I mean, a year is a long time, I suppose, to not speak to someone that you were right. Well, it's not a long time to not speak with someone that you broke up with, because sometimes that's forever. You never speak to them again.
Ryan: I like to think that at least in that first portion of the film, each scene is close to a different weekend or something like that. So it doesn't feel like it's the same weekend.
Josh: Right.
Ryan: Because there was times in it where obviously, if it was from a weekend to weekend basis, they'll have good weekends and not so good weekends. And certainly there was portions of the film where they were arguing. Uh, it stilts the weekend for them.
Laura: You won't see me cry.
Josh: Okay.
Laura: You won't see me cry ever again. This is it.
Josh: She's a little whiny, but, man, she's right most of the time. He's kind of a dick. And even when she starts instigating a fight with him about going and dropping off things for work and it took ten minutes, she's being shitty. But then you see what his response is. There's more going on. That's happened before. Uh, he's super condescending to her. A little gaslighty, even, to use the buzzword, as it were.
Laura: Uh, well, you can just tell that these two people, although they love each.
Ryan: Other quite a lot, they're maybe not completely matched up.
Josh: I don't know why she loves him. He doesn't seem that great. No.
Ryan: But then you do end up certainly as younger people, if we're talking about.
Laura: Their characters, if we're talking about Greta Gorwig, that's different. But as her character, I'm like, she's frustrating. Um, and he is also frustrating.
Ryan: Yeah. This is the 101 of relationships in your 20s. You're not going to find that lasting relationship here. You're kind of testing the water. So this is you kind of going through the gamut of human emotion whilst kind of this is what we're kind of seeing with this particular relationship that.
Laura: They have, the whole getting back well, it's not like they're getting back together, but when they meet up again. And it's so I don't know how you guys felt about it, but it felt I don't know. I had it's awkward reactions. It's awkward to their interactions because meeting up with exes and especially when you have one that seems to be doing better than the other one that has because it's Joe Swanberg's character who has gone off and now he's doing photographs for a magazine and he was just doing, um, a chat. And he's doing really well in his video game job, right?
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: And then you have Greta Gerwig, who you're like, what does she mean?
Josh: She was going to get her master's, right?
Laura: That was the she's studying and stuff. But then she's still in the same apartment she was in before. Her mattress was on the floor. She's still got the same old like nothing's really changed for her so much. And he's doing really well in that short span of time. And that sucks because you never want to see your ex doing well ever.
Josh: All my exes are doing much better than me.
Laura: I just assume that all of mine.
Josh: Are good for them. They're very sweet.
Laura: I assume all of mine are doing really poorly. And that's just because I don't want to talk to them.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And that's fine.
Ryan: None of my exes are doing better than me.
Laura: Good.
Ryan: Like, none of them yeah, one of.
Josh: Them is married and building a house currently.
Ryan: Uh, I don't know.
Laura: So when you get to a point in life where some of your exes still that are married and have kids still send you thirst text via the Internet yeah, it's gross.
Ryan: I luckily don't get those, so that's fine.
Laura: It's always flattering.
Ryan: Um, yeah.
Josh: No one likes me that much. I was not section. I was never that memorable.
Ryan: Here's something that Greta's character does during the movie, which I thought was probably one of the most awkward things, which is where she was, like, using Joe to try and get more experience within the writing field. Like the journalism thing where she's like, trying to get the phone number from him so that she can try and make a foothold in the career that she's interested in.
Laura: I did not think that was weird. I thought how she broached it was super weird because she made it really awkward even though it wasn't.
Ryan: Then his reaction was just like, right. And then there was no follow up to that. It kind of happened. And it was pretty much like, uh, well, no, I can't do that for you.
Laura: Oh, I read it differently. It's just like, is that what you're being so weird about? Like, yeah, that's not a problem.
Josh: Yeah.
Ryan: But then we never saw her get the phone number or anything. There was no kind of contact there. It wasn't as if he came out in some sort of super enthusiastic manner. It's just like, yeah, of course I can do that. For you, which is the answer you would fucking expect.
Josh: Um, I don't think that there's any plot devices in any of these movies, though, that are that big.
Laura: Yeah, I think you took a little bit more out of it than I did. I thought of it more of a maybe.
Ryan: Yeah. Maybe did I maybe did. I mean, the design of the film in general is that you're kind of not really from scene to scene, meant to take anything forward.
Josh: Not narratively, I don't think. You're not just a collection of, I don't know, feelings, almost.
Ryan: Yeah. Because obviously there's no plot that's effectively going on here. What you're doing is effectively, is you're peering in through the open window of these people's lives.
Laura: Well, I mean, it's still the classic set up. You've got your build up of a relationship, the breakdown, and then your resolution where you're like, oh, yeah, we're not meant to be together.
Ryan: Yeah, they're still out.
Laura: Goodbye.
Ryan: Yeah, there's still a three act structure going on here. But in terms of plot devices to move the film forward, uh, you're looking at it from a Voyeuristic standpoint. You just so happen to have front row seats to what's happening here.
Laura: Which is kind of the very end of the film, um, where it's this whole sex set up where it's like, you know, he's in a relationship and you know he's being bad. She has no idea. She's just, this is my old boyfriend and he's here and we're getting on really well, so let's bone. Um, and she does a million cute things, like put on this robe. There's a moment where she's in the bathroom that I fucking love, where she's trying to get cute and she doesn't know what to do. And so she takes off her clothes and she's in her underwear and she's trying to adjust her bra. And then she takes one boob. Yeah, she just grabs one boob and places it outside of the bra and then tucks it back in. And I died. I love it.
Josh: That was maybe my easily the most memorable shot in the whole that's my favorite.
Laura: And I'm like, yes.
Josh: It's because she does this thing with her shoulders that just kind of shrugs almost.
Laura: How do I make my boobs look the way that I need them to? Or how do I be sexy? What is sexy? And I'm like, yes. What is sexy? That's wonderful. I loved that moment so much. And then she comes out in that robe and she's like, hey, I couldn't deal. I loved it so much.
Laura: But then that whole sex scene at the end, which is the third and final time we see Joe Swanberg's penis at an hour, 13 minutes and 45 seconds, is very uncomfortable. It's one of the worst sex scenes I've seen, just because it's so purely uncomfortable having sex with someone that you've broken up with. Because, you know, in my experience and I feel like most people's experience. And I'm sure there's outliers there, but when you break up with somebody when there is a breakup, just don't try to get back together.
Josh: I'll let you know after it happens for me. I'm going to call you. Guess what I just did.
Laura: I've done it two times, I believe. And it is the saddest fucking thing I've ever experienced. When you're like, all right, we'll give it another shot. And then just that sad.
Josh: And you're like, fuck thing.
Laura: The saddest fuck thing. And I've had nightmares about it in my recent life.
Ryan: It's rough. Yeah.
Josh: They're so bad. Not only is what's taking place in the scene really uncomfortable, some of the dialogue makes me want to die. When he tells her to get up on him, come up here and I'll lick you or something. It's like, oh. And, uh, then she's like, you know, I don't like that. But him just saying it so matter of factly, like, hop up here in my face and I'm going to lick you.
Laura: Yeah. Which I didn't have a problem with it. I didn't know why she had such a problem with it. But what I found even more disgusting is every time he called her baby, I wanted to throw the TV out the window. Yeah, baby. Uh, I was watching it today again with a commentary. And they stopped talking during that whole end scene. And all I could hear is just like groaning baby at her.
Ryan: Well, you know, like, you know, baby.
Laura: You want to fuck me? You can fuck me, baby. And I'm like, you never called her baby up, um, until this moment. It's like, we've been in your relationship for this long throughout the whole film. And now you're calling her baby. I don't accept it.
Ryan: I think it's because it's his current relationship, like entering the bedroom, where he's.
Laura: Kind of like, yeah, that makes sense.
Ryan: He's interjecting certain things that he's doing in his current relationship into his past relationship. I'm not even too sure if we would say he's trying to rekindle it. Because I'm slightly I'm slightly confused by what it is that they are trying to do. Because it's obvious from the way that it's shot in that second half of the film is that we focus on her a fair amount, where she's trying to make the best impression. And she's really trying to, I guess, give it a decent goal, even though there's obviously a relevant amount of apprehension about like, well, it didn't work the first time. Why would it work now? Yeah, but he thinks it's maybe business as usual and he can just step right back in. And I think this is kind of like a dropping of the guard where he's kind of saying things and doing things that are kind of relevant to his current relationship.
Josh: I think it shows too, a pretty honest version of what their relationship actually was when it was a real relationship. He's arrogant and she's insecure. That's a lot of it. Uh, I think that they don't have a reason to argue. They don't have that tension that exists while hanging out that second half of the movie. But at the end of the day, they're still pretty similar people.
Laura: Super gross. That whole thing was gross.
Ryan: Yeah, they do a thing.
Laura: Uh, it was gross.
Ryan: It's pretty much the death.
Josh: Neil I feel like there's a big question mark, too, as to whether or not they actually fucked in that scene in real life.
Laura: I mean, in real life, it looks.
Josh: Like they may have because the camera doesn't cut. It's not like, uh, they do an insert of penetration or something. You wouldn't be able to see it, really from the position that the camera was in. But it's also where did it go?
Laura: She's straight sitting on it. Yeah, she is sitting on it. And whether or not she's sitting upon it or it is inside of her, I do not know.
Josh: It's either being smooshed or something.
Laura: Yeah, well, I mean, when we were watching it, I'm like, her vagina is on that penis 100%.
Josh: Definitely touching.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: Touching tips.
Laura: They touch tips in that hotel room bed, for sure. How many times they had to do that scene? I don't know.
Josh: How many times did they get to is what you that's no, I can't imagine that was sexy to make at all. That was probably horrible.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: Although, who knows? Maybe Joe likes that sort of thing. Maybe that's why he's hardened all this movie.
Laura: That's why he always has an erection.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: You want to hear my trivia now, right? I can run through it.
Ryan: Yeah, I would say so. We've run through the entire film.
Laura: Cool.
Josh: Yeah.
Laura: So I was curious about how some of these people met, because I know Greta Groh. She was going to go to school for, like, playwriting.
Josh: Yeah. She has a background in right?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So, um, I'm like, how did this happen? How did she get involved in these films when she wasn't really an actor or anything? So I guess her then college boyfriend, Chris Wells, who actually works at Mubi right now, he's the director of US. Distribution.
Josh: Oh, that's wild. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's cool.
Laura: So he went to a student filmmaking symposium, um, at Telluride, and Swanberg was there. And that's where they met. And so Joe sent a DVD of his first movie of the kissing on the mouth movie, um, to Chris. And then they ended up working on Lol. And so Chris, who was Greta's boyfriend at the time, asked Greta if he could use a voicemail message that she'd left for him as a message from his character's fictional girlfriend in Lol. So he was like, can you just record something for me and we'll use it in the movie. But then it kind of went from there. So that's how she ended up getting involved with that crew, essentially. Um, she phoned in a performance and went to the premiere of Lol. That's where she met Joe Swanberg. And then they decided to work together. And that's how they ended up working on Hannah Takes the Stairs, and then nights and weekends and so on. Um, let's see, what else do I have? I already spoke about them changing the movie because they ended up having from what I read, they ended up having a fight. So they filmed the movie or like, half of the film, and then they just couldn't work together. It was just like, big heads getting in the way. They were arguing. And then they decided to just take a break. And it was one actual year before they ended up working and finishing the film.
Josh: Oh, so they must have made this around the same time as Hannah Takes the Stairs.
Laura: I think it was like they must.
Josh: Have been, like, back to back. Yeah, that's wild. Oh, didn't know that.
Laura: So they ended up re kind of writing what the end should be because they realized from their arguing and just kind of their relationship and how it had evolved and how maybe the story had evolved from there, that they changed it to a breakup story. Um, hence the one year later, which is actually a literal one year later. Um, and I found a little thing that Joe Swanberg said in 2005 about dealing with sex in films. He said, I was still really frustrated with most movies, especially in the way they deal with sex. What is the big deal? This is something that we're dealing with all the time, and it's completely devoid in movies. Why are we shying away from it? And Greta Gerwig said about nudity, she goes, I don't mind being nude on screen or anywhere, really, but these films are, um, a weird document that I'll have as I get older. And I can't even believe now, looking at Hannah Takes the Stairs that my 20 year old self was okay with that. I'm sort of shocked that I was just like, no, it doesn't have to be flattering. I don't care. I'll just be naked. And I think that's sort of beautiful.
Josh: Yeah, that's cool.
Laura: Those are my trivia bits.
Ryan: Yay.
Laura: Here we are. Um, is there anything else you guys wanted to drop in before we do our final ratings?
Josh: No, I don't think so.
Laura: Wonderful. I'm going to go first because I'm already talking, so in terms of visibility and context, it's got a big fat five from me. Um, there is a wonderful balance of nudity between the two characters in this film. There might be more male nudity in this film, but there is quite a bit of boob. I could probably count it up and give you a scientific measurement, but I don't have those details with me right now. But I thought the balance was amazing. Um, really front loaded with. Penis, which is fun. And it's also in terms of just the style of film when you're talking about having an honest depiction of situations and honesty. There you go. In my opinion. So you got regular human soft bodies doing it on the floor. And I think that's five stars. Would you like to go next, Josh?
Josh: Sure. Five stars. Five stars for visibility. Obviously, it's naturalistic. It feels real. Uh, it feels like it lives somewhere between narrative, uh, and a documentary. I think it's a really beautiful, um, film in a lot of ways. It's not necessarily the happiest thing in the world, but I think that it's really, uh, honest.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Ryan uh, I'm going to say five stars, and I kind of feel like I'm repeating the things that you guys said. But I think the biggest thing about it is that it's honest. Uh, it's honest, simple as that. It's realism. So it feels honest to me.
Laura: Um, and in terms of the film overall, I think I gave it a four. But the more we talk about it, I might go up a bit, but maybe I'll watch it again and then decide. But four for now, because I really liked it. And, um, uh, I don't know. I just freaking liked it. I just had a nice time watching it. And it gave me feelings and it made me feel things. And it made me physically move my body out of how gross it was every time he said baby. And it really kind of harkened back to, I think, a lot of situations that most people have been in in terms of relationships and not, um, that you necessarily want to experience those things again. But I think that they handled it really well.
Josh: Yeah. Um, I go higher on it. This is one of my favorite movies of all time. I I always consider I mean, it's actually one of my favorite films. It might be the newest of what I would consider to be like my arbitrary top five list or whatever. That's constantly changing, of course. But yeah. Um, seeing this, and Hannah Takes the Stairs in 2008, uh, not only started a 15 year crush on Greta Gerwig that will never die. Absolutely. But I think that it showed me that there was a group of people out there that were making something new and interesting and fresh and just decided, fuck it, we're going to tell stories how we want to about what we want to. I, um, think that they're very defining movies for millennials. I, um, think that, uh, Gen X has their voices. Joe Swanberg, I think, could be, uh, very easily equated to somebody like Linkladder or somebody like that. That's a voice for a different generation. Um, so, yeah, I think that his stuff is great. And I think that this is maybe my favorite of Joe Swanberg's movies and one of I love Greta Gertwick's stuff for different hell yeah.
Laura: Ryan.
Ryan: Um, so kind of like going off of what Josh just said there. I mean, I'm a massive fan of independent cinema, and I love the idea that we end up seeing in the industry these kind of cycles. Certainly in American cinema, you see these cycles of you've got your big films and you have your little films, and suddenly your little films tend to be the expression of, uh, the real time. You want to go to see these films to find something relatable, to really kind of look at not big stories, but little stories, things that you're able to kind of attach yourself to. And I guess that's kind of where my love of the independent cinema is. And I think watching these films is that it's proof positive that it's still going strong. And even after, say, Joe Swanberg and certainly this troupe of other filmmakers, there's going to be another group of filmmakers who's going to carry on the legacy of this just because from decade to decade, that's just the way it's been. Um, there always has to be a counterbalance to the much bigger pieces of film. And I feel like we're at a point right now in cinema where when films are big, they're bigger than they've ever been, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're particularly good or relatable. So, um, I gave this film four stars. Um, I like it an awful lot. Um, I guess my only kind of drawback with it is as a filmmaker, m myself, I found myself in positions where you create stories and ideas and things like a very similar way. Um, I do find some points of the film, certainly in the beginning, to be a little bit wandery. Um, but that feels like that's kind of the natural trappings of doing things in a very naturalistic, improvisational manner. Um, I think you kind of have to look at it a little bit more, a little bit more than that. But, uh, yeah, I would also say that it's definitely deserving of more than four at some point. But, uh, from this the first time seeing it, uh, this was a very pleasant experience.
Laura: We'll just have to buy it. We'll have to purchase it rather than borrowing it from Josh.
Ryan: We could definitely look into doing that. Yes.
Laura: It's already in the cart.
Ryan: Okay.
Josh: Gee.
Laura: Golly. Whiz. Y'all, I'm so glad we got to talk about nights and weekends, and I'm glad we kind of switched things around so that we could do this all together as friends, because this is a great movie, and I wish that it was a little bit more available for everybody. But I will make sure to let you know where you can find it. But thank you guys for being here.
Laura: Um, coming to you standing upside down underneath the bean in Chicago, I have.
Ryan: Been Laura that's so weird. Like, that would make me feel sick when she was doing that. I was just like, no, you shouldn't be doing that. I'm so tired right now. Ah.
Laura: Okay. Nap time for RyDogg.
Ryan: Yeah, I need to go to bed.
Laura: Okay. That's Ryan. And.
Josh: Hi, Josh. Still here.
Laura: Bye, Josh.
Josh: Bye. Bye.
Laura: Uh, bye, Ryan. Nap time underneath the bean.
Josh: Just so you know, if you like nights and weekends, you're going to fucking love the flash.
Laura: All my shit is fresh. Real fresh shit coming out of this mouth.
Ryan: Yeah.