Are you here for business or PLEASURE (2021)?
At OTB HQ we're ALL business! But some times, just some times, we like to do a little bit in the name of PLEASURE.
Depending on who you speak to (particularly Laura) they will let you know that anything we do is for "pleasure" but before this analogy begins to lose its muster, let's look at the Ninja Thyberg's debut, PLEASURE, based on the short of the same name.
It's an in-depth, behind-the-curtain look at the American Adult Entertainment Industry, following a Swedish woman from a small town looking to become the next big porn star.
As you might expect, there's A LOT.
Laura: I think that we should start this episode just like the beginning of the film. Just a lot of wet noises.
Ryan: Clapping cheeks.
Laura: Clapping cheeks. And, um, sucking on people.
Ryan: Well, who's clapping who?
Laura: Kiss, kiss, kiss.
Ryan: Yeah. Ah. Who's clapping who?
Laura: Choke, choke, choke. Gargle, gargle, gargle. Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura, and I am joined by my co host, Ryan.
Ryan: Hello, Ryan.
Laura: I have one question for you before we begin.
Ryan: Yeah?
Laura: Are you here for business or pleasure?
Ryan: Business,
Laura: Bullshit! You're here for pleasure. You're here for the 2021 drama Pleasure. Directed by Ninja Thyberg. Starring Sophia Capel, Revica Ann Russell and Evelyn Claire, along with many, many other beautifully beautiful, uh, porn stars. Porn star.
Ryan: Established porn stars? Yes. Her name's Ninja. It's not Ninja, is it? I don't know. I'm gonna say both. I mean, if it's ninja, that's fucking badass. Ninja.
Laura: Fiber spelled ninja.
Ryan: It is spelled ninja, but you're absolutely right.
Laura: I probably just got too excited.
Ryan: Well, she's swedish, so it could be ninja. Ninja thy burg.
Laura: Ninja.
Ryan: Um, Sweden's cool. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, no. Okay. Well, okay, well, yeah, I'm here for. If that was the question you were posing. Yes, I'm here for the movie pleasure.
Laura: Absolutely. I guess, um, let me drop that synopsis real quick from letterboxd, okay. 20 year old Bella Cherry leaves her small town in Sweden for Los Angeles with the aim to become the world's next big porn star. But the road to her goal turns out to be bumpier than she imagined.
Ryan: That's for sure.
Laura: That's definitely for sure. She says in the beginning that she's 19, but I just wonder if that's, you know, in porn, you know, they want your barely legal ladies.
Ryan: Well, I think. I don't know if they actually hire people who are barely legal.
Laura: Well, barely legal means legal. Just barely, though.
Ryan: Just barely. You know?
Laura: 18. They were like, I turned 18 yesterday.
Ryan: Just to the cusp.
Laura: Yeah, just so it's legal.
Ryan: But no, I think, like, personally, um, if I was a businessman, uh, who was running barely legal, um, barelylegal.com. well, you just. You would hire people who look young and just get them to say that they're 18, but they're not.
Laura: I'm pretty sure that that's what happens.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what happens. It's a casting decision. Um, yeah, you're not gonna get someone in there who's like an old man? Be like, I'm a chin. That'd be odd.
Laura: No, the old man's a separate category.
Ryan: Old and crinkly.
Laura: Old and young.
Ryan: Old, crinkly. Yeah. Grannies.
Laura: Hey, there's something for everybody out there, uh, if you're into that.
Ryan: Yeah, there's literally everything. Gaping holes. Hairy. Hairy.
Laura: Literally anything you want. Anything, you know, we don't. Kink. Shame.
Ryan: Stuck in a window.
Laura: Absolutely. Stuck in a window. Stuck in the stairs. Stuck in the dryer.
Ryan: Yeah, stuck in the dryer. Stuck in the dryer is quite. Yeah. Uh, that's a real dangerous thing. Do you think people die from getting stuck in dryers?
Laura: I don't really think you can get stuck in the dryer. I think it's just for pleasures. I don't know, kinky pleasures.
Ryan: Do you want me to talk about ninja, that is, or ninja. Ah, Thyberg. Before we kind of get. I would love into this. Um, so she's a swedish director and writer. Um, there's not a lot of info on her, unfortunately. Um, she's known for this movie pleasure. Pleasure, uh, was also a short film in 2013, and she was also known for a short film called Hot Chicks. Uh, pleasure from 2021 is her directional.
Laura: Not the Rob Schneider Hot Chicks.
Ryan: No, but you just interrupted me writing the sentence. Um, pleasure 2021 is her directorial feature debut. Um, but she has a, you know, she has a modest collection of shorts, um, here. Uh, so it begins in 2010 with VAt, which also means wet mother, uh, father, child from 2011, Afro from 2012, Pleasure, obviously from 2013 that I mentioned. Hot Chicks from 2014, catwalk from 2015, the Kill from 2015, Hingston, which also means stallion
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Ryan: from 2015, girls and boys from 2015, and then pleasure in 2021. Yeah, it looks like she had a very busy year in 2015.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Um, but yes, uh, pleasure is her feature film debut.
Laura: Yeah, you already said it, but I had written it down as well, that this came from the short of the same name.
Ryan: Yeah, very, very similar. In context, I think it's just a behind the scenes, uh, of a porn shoot, um, which is kind of, pleasure's a weird little thing where it's obviously a fictionalized story, but it kind of skirts a fine line between being like a documentary, because there are parts in the film where it goes to, like, for example, AVN, um, the convention in Las Vegas, where I'm pretty sure they're just normal people attending AvN, uh, doing what those sorts of dudes do at AVN. Um, so, yeah, I do feel like it does skirt a quite fine line between being documentary and kind of pulling the curtain a little further than maybe we want to. But it does include a lot of current, uh, adult entertainers in the film. So I guess there has to be some kind of level of understanding.
Laura: Yeah, I didn't really see it like that. I think this movie's very funny and also quite dark at times, but it's just her struggle to get to the top and the things that she's willing to do and try to be the biggest star out there.
Ryan: My main concern with it is her level of naivety. I find it odd in this modern era in 2021, which I'm assuming is the era that she is embarking on this journey, that she didn't. That she at times doesn't do her research before going into, like, jumping into certain things in this film.
Laura: Well, she's rushing into the situation. She wants to be the biggest and the best, and she wants to do it here and now. And so when she is told there's certain things that she has to do in order to get to where she needs to go, I think she's just jumping into it. And yet she's a young girl, 1920 years old. You don't listen to the people around you, and you just jump into it, and then you realize that you jumped in too deep. I mean, that's life, man.
Ryan: Yeah, no, I think. Yeah, no, I think you're correct. Yeah. I certainly wasn't making great decisions at 19. Did I ever tell you that story about how I almost became a camera operator on a porn shoot?
Laura: You absolutely did.
Ryan: Yeah. And that was entertaining.
Laura: That's like, first date material, you know?
Ryan: Yeah, no, I've lived a life. Um, but the thing is, is like. And I'll. I'm gonna make, you know, to try and amuse myself through the course of this. Um, I'm gonna make a lot of references to Rocky, because when I first finished watching this film, the first time that I watched it, it reminded me a lot of rocky.
Laura: Okay, do you want to extrapolate on that at all right now, or are you just gonna put it in your pocket for later?
Ryan: So she starts at the bottom, um, just like Rocky did, and he's making his way through the ranks to fight the grand champion, who, in this story, in pleasure, is what's her name, because she's a real porn star as well.
Laura: Ava.
Ryan: Ava, um, she's the Apollo creed of this story. Yeah, she's the best of the best, and she has to conquer her in order to become the world heavyweight champion of so in this regard, the film is split up into certain. And I say I call them scenes, but these are like, these are the porn scenes, is what I'm referring to, where she's testing herself, she's pushing herself. This is her training. You know what I mean?
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: You know, rocky lifted logs and stuff in, like, you know, the Andes or wherever the fuck he did in Rocky four. And then she's, you know, she's. Yeah, her chasing the chicken is putting anal plugs into her anus to stretch it out a little bit.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ryan: Catch the chicken rock, you know, that sort of thing here. It's just like, what? The butt plug in, you, uh, know.
Laura: That is a perfect comparison.
Ryan: Yeah. So that's. That's what got me. That's what got me through.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Her. Mickey, is that hope girl?
Laura: Yes. Joy.
Ryan: Joy, yeah. There you go.
Laura: The girl from Florida.
Ryan: The girl from Florida, who also is a real porn star. And she's probably. She's got. She's got one of the. A lot of the surrounding background
00:10:00
Ryan: characters that are in this film. They're all very good. I think everybody has some relation to the adult film industry in this film other than our central character.
Laura: Correct.
Ryan: Who certainly puts herself through the wringer. Certainly, um, jumps in and really kind of goes for it because this film does not really pull too many punches either.
Laura: No.
Ryan: Like, there's no skirting around sensitivity. And I think the first time we watched it, we watched the. I don't want to say, like, the theatrical version, but, like, there's two versions. There's an unrated, uncut version, and there's also the seemingly cut version. I can't see any differences between the two. Personally, I think maybe some scenes in the uncut version just run a little bit longer and you maybe see a little bit more. But primarily, you're getting the same experience regardless of whatever version you're watching, I think.
Laura: Yeah, I agree. So the original feature length title, from what I researched was called Jessica. I don't quite know why, but when I was looking it up, Jessica kept coming up and I'm like, why would you change the name from your short? Like, that's pleasure, which is a good name to Jessica. No one's named Jessica. I mean, I know that you can change names and everything, but I don't think that's a good name.
Ryan: I like how the, um. I do like how the title comes in when she gets in at customs and it's that question as posed to her. I do like how that's done.
Laura: Yeah, it's hilarious. So the director had said, I see that everything she's going through can be a metaphor for things that I've gone through and I've never been a porn star. We're under the same mechanisms of power. And she had wrote her thesis on pornography and therefore had to watch a lot of pornography for analysis and seeing different aspects of how, you know, it's made and how it's shot. And she'd seen a double anal scene and thought to herself, that must be so painful. I don't know how painful it is, but it can't be pleasurable. So then she wanted to know more about why someone would do this and the motivation for it. And that was kind of that origin story for the short that she'd made.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: And around that same time she had watched a film called weapons of ass destruction.
Ryan: That's amazing.
Laura: Yeah. And she said it was so on point with the aggressive tone, uh, that she was seeing in the male gaze. It's not even trying to hide the aggression toward the female body. Ass destruction. You know, it's not saying, oh, she likes dicks in her ass so much that she wants two of them. It's about destroying, ah, and she was fascinated by that.
Ryan: The porn industry is a weird product. Like it's a weird manufacturing industry where there's such a let like there's such a strange line between decency and dehumanization. But it is an industry very much like I would say classic Hollywood that was run primarily bye female stars because they put asses on seats. And in the porn industry, you know, you have your named, you know, male model types, your male adult stars which you know, you know, for obvious reasons, but they're not as prevalent as the, as the women. Like the women are touted, um, in the, in the, in the porn industry. And they uh, yeah, there's kind of this weird thing where it's like they're very much aware of the exploitation evolved in it and I think they're very much aware of that. So that gives them a level of control. But from the outside you can see that it's like, well no, you are being exploited. You are, you know, you are being put through situations that are neither one realistic out in the real world. And second of all do come across as if they're ah, incredibly dehumanizing. So it's an odd, yeah, it's an odd product to look at.
Laura: I feel it was interesting. I liked all of the, I guess that kind of leans into how you were saying, felt a little bit more like a documentary at times, where you kind of. You got to see the beginning, how they're shooting it, which is funny. It's so funny that her very first porn shoot is so funny to me.
Ryan: I like the fact that it details not only, like, the physical mechanics of a shoot, but certainly the legal mechanics that go around it. Because obviously, depending on, you
00:15:00
Ryan: know, depending on, you know, whatever shoot you do, for the most part, there is a massive amount of legal control that needs to be, um, that needs to be undertaken in order for things to, one, stay safe. And second of all, obviously, um, don't put the producers of these films in jeopardy, uh, legally. Which is also, I think, another reason why most of most pornography is shot in California, because the laws there are different than they are in the rest of the United States. So. But I do like the fact that there is more focus, uh, on the actual mechanics of how do you do these scenes? How do you do this? How do you do that? Uh, the level of direction, this sort of thing, that sort of thing. And it comes across as genuine because they are using real directors and they are using real stars in these situations. And effectively, our lead is kind of pushed into those situations, and she's kind of reenacting it as pretending, acting, uh, to be a porn star.
Laura: Yeah. She has my birthday. The character Bella Cherry.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: April 27. It's always fun when someone has your birthday in a movie.
Ryan: Yeah. It doesn't really happen because mine. Yeah, I can't remember if I have a character in any movie that has my. It's probably something really sad. Like, it's a wonderful life. Like, you know, Jimmy Stewart's character's got, like, September 4 is their birthday, and it's just like, aw, aw, aw. Marsh. You know, it's like someone really depressing. It's not someone cool, you know, someone.
Laura: Called, like, bella Cherry.
Ryan: Yeah. Or like, xander Cage or, you know, fucking, uh, whatever Stallone's character is in demolition man. Like, it's nothing like that. He's not gonna have birthday, like, September 4, you know, Optimus prime.
Laura: That's. It's weird. Okay, well, we'll do something.
Ryan: I guess we know. We guess we know what my heroes are. Yeah.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Bumblebee.
Laura: Okay, we gotta get back to the point. The point is gonna be a boner.
Ryan: It's gonna be loads of boners.
Laura: So many boners. And you know what?
Ryan: Well, before. Before we get into this, I did. Cause we're talking about, like, the documentary, like, style of the film and kind of how it. How it really kind of gives you an insight into the industry and stuff. I remember watching a documentary on Netflix, which is pretty much like, picture for picture, almost exactly the same as what pleasure is. Basically, it follows a, uh, group of young girls. We focus on primarily one girl who's entering a pornhouse and has a very similar story to, say, the guy who's managing the talent in this movie, this guy called Mike. There's also this other guy where it's basically, uh, it's just, uh, a rinse and repeat of, like, you know, women who want to be porn stars, who want to get involved in the adult film industry. And he just has a rotating door of talent that comes in and out, comes in and out. And I remember very. That that documentary really showed some light on, like, they have to get tested. They have to do this, they have to do that. And one of the worst parts of the film, because you showed it, was that they worked one of the girls a little too hard so her vagina swelled up and do you know. Yeah. Do you know what those. You know, you get those candy lips.
Laura: Uh, okay.
Ryan: It basically looked like two balloons put together, and it was red raw. And it's just like, you have to stop. I think she also got pink eye as well. Like, that just happened. She got like, yeah, she got pink eye in the documentary, too.
Laura: And that happens when you're working around buttholes.
Ryan: Well, that documentary leaned more into, like, well, this was exploitative. And then she got a boyfriend who did nothing but just moan about the fact that it's exploitative. And it's like, okay, dude, that's fine. You know, you're kind of painting your now current girlfriend in a bad light by saying things like, you know, this is whorish. This isn't something I agree with any of that sort of thing. I was like, I'm looking after her safety. And to me, I'm like, in a world now where information is at your fingertips, I don't think you can be surprised when you go into these situations. And it's like, oh, boy, this is a lot more than I thought it was going to be.
Laura: Uh, I don't know. I think that's a tough. It's a tough thing to kind of.
Ryan: I, um, think it's tough for. Because generalizing.
Laura: I am generalizing in this particular story. I don't necessarily see her being exploited.
00:20:00
Laura: There are times where it is hard, and she gets into a situation or two where she feels uncomfortable.
Ryan: I mean, it's basically.
Laura: It's also within her own control because uh, during the beginning of every single shoot, they go over your do's and do nots, things that she will and will not do. And she agrees to all these things, knowing that there are things that she definitely doesn't wanna do, that she maybe does anyway, just to move up the porn ladder. So she is aware of the things that she's putting herself through mentally and physically, and she's agreeing to do them. Exploitative. I don't think for this character in particular, the whole of the industry. Good God, I don't know.
Ryan: Who knows? I think we're also getting a, uh, relatively, quite sanitized view. That's very. That's very particular, um, of the industry in. In this movie. Um, I think is even as much as, like, the stuff that happens to her is fucking terrible. I mean, there's pretty much it. I mean, it just comes down to being rape at one point. Um, I still think it's. It's still. This is the very much controlled sense of it. And certainly I remember. I remember Louis Theroux. He did a, uh, he did a documentary where he saw some. He saw some pretty heinous stuff. And, uh, I think the guys he was interviewing who were doing that stuff, like, most of them are in prison now. And you certainly see that now. Is that maybe the practices of the past starting to catch up with performers now who have maybe done things that are questionable and rules just haven't been followed and things like that. I think things are a little bit more. They're a little bit more strict. A little bit more controlled now than they were.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Back in the day.
Laura: Do you. Okay. I was going to say before as well, that this movie doesn't have as m many penises as you would expect for the type of film that it is.
Ryan: But it has a lot.
Laura: I think it has just the right amount.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Just the right amount.
Ryan: And that's the thing you're not seeing. We're not seeing, um. I guess it's not a nine song situation. We're not seeing. We're not seeing the pounding and the, you know, this sex, so to speak. We're seeing a lot of, like, the preamble, the prep, the mechanics of it. You know, like, the little touches that I like in the cause there's a bit where she does that kick shoot. Right with that famous director that everyone's like, holy shit, you got to work with that director.
Laura: Oh, with all the ropes and the swings and pulleys. Yeah.
Ryan: So, like, the pulley, the ropes and the aggression and the kind of four. Violence stuff. Uh, the whipping, um, the tickling, all that sort of thing.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Um, there's a bit where the guy is like, could you give me a hand? And the assistant spits in his hands and he uses that to, like. Cause she must. I don't know if she's like, the fluffer. Like, she's the on call fluffer, just in case.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: That's one thing that disappointed me. There's no fluffer. I didn't see a fluffer in the film. Everyone's managing their own. And I do like the idea of seeing a fluffer.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Because I wonder where that person came from to find themselves in that position. I would make a film called Fluffer. Honestly. That would be the one. Yeah.
Laura: Have you seen a film where there is a fluffer?
Ryan: I think it's maybe more of a joke.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: I do like the idea.
Laura: Cause, like, that seems like something that would be an orgasmo.
Ryan: Well, like, I remember, like, in, uh, boogie nights, I thought Philip Seymour Hoffman acted a little bit like a fluffer. Cause he had, like, such a desire to, like, be around these people and to, like, be their friend. And, uh. Yeah, like, that wouldn't surprise me.
Laura: I think this is the time now for me to watch boogie nights again. Cause it's been ages of.
Ryan: But I think. I think there was. I think there was a documentary I saw and there was a fluffer. And I'm like, get the fluffer. And it's like some poor girl, and you just see the dead in her eyes. And I'm just like, holy shit, dear. Yeah, it's rough.
Laura: Yeah. These men are tending to themselves, that's for sure. Some of them are doing a little extra to try and make sure that they stay ready.
Ryan: I like. I like the fact the. And I'm trying to remember his name. And I'm pretty sure he's also part of the industry as well. Um, the guy who we meet m originally, who's doing the legal commentary before her first scene. We just found his name.
Laura: It's Chris Cock. His character's name is Bear.
Ryan: Yeah, he's. He's excellent in the film. He's excellent. I would say that he.
00:25:00
Ryan: To lead her into these situations and to lead her into kind of what this is going to be. I think he's. I think he's a fantastic addition in the film because it. It lightens up some of the moments in the film. And certainly when it comes to. When it comes to shooting that main scene, which becomes obviously her. Her springboard, uh, to becoming a Spiegler girl. Um. Um. He's definitely one to be like, yes, I know you and I like you and I know where you've come from. I just don't want to hurt you. So there is a level of compassion that's elicited here.
Laura: One of the rare people in this film that genuinely has her best interest at heart and knows what she wants and where she wants to go and is a friend.
Ryan: I mean, I give like, I even the, even the scene that's like super, super rough. Like, I still give a lot of. I don't want to say credit or anything, but like these are like business people. Like they're professionals.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: You know, like they're not fucking around. It's like they're not going to pay money out, uh, for things that don't happen. And they're not expecting to pay someone who's not able to perform the tasks that are, that are needed to finish off the films that they're making. So like, I'm kind of. There's a really weird, again, a really weird line, um, being elicited here where it's kind of like, well, this is a professional, this is a business. And then maybe that's where. And it's kind of like, well, yeah, just because you like having sex, you can't remove yourself from the fact that this is a business and you need to perform to what we're looking for. Certainly when you're in agreement that you're able to perform the things that we're looking for, of course. So, you know, it's also the same argument that's like, you know, there's a lot of porn stars that they come out of the industry either penniless or they don't have much of anything. I would say that obviously with the coronavirus pandemic, um, and obviously the advent of onlyfans and things like that, like the amount of money that people are able to generate doing that sort of content now is insane. Like the acceptance of sex work and stuff now. Um, it's far more acceptable now. And I think even this is kind of going off on a weird tangent, but even now, this current generation like Gen Z, who aren't particularly either sexually active or sexualized for the most part, um, the adult performers are still able to find some way of making an income even in these kind of terrible circumstances and things. I do understand that level of trying to take a bit of it back. Um, but for me, um, yeah, this film to me kind of feels like, yes, we're following her journey and stuff. But, yeah, there's very much a lot of the. Yeah, just like the ins and outs mechanics that you might not have been aware of before.
Laura: Yeah, it's great. Why don't we jump into that first penis scene?
Ryan: Yeah, I think we're just gonna do the penis scenes, right? We're not gonna. We're not gonna go too deep into the drama.
Laura: Whatever.
Ryan: I think that's really up to you guys. You should be. You should be watching the movie yourself. Um, because when does she meet her Apollo Creed? That's what I'm wondering.
Laura: It's later.
Ryan: So.
Laura: Her first, her very first shoot, her first job, her first film that comes in. Well, the scene itself is about five minutes and 16 seconds into the movie.
Ryan: So it's a straight scene as well.
Laura: It's a boy girl scene.
Ryan: Yes, it's a straight scene.
Laura: So, you know, she just arrived to LA, her first shoot, and she is playing an 18 year old virgin ready to have sex with a middle aged mandeh.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Brian, who is the middle aged man, also part time, part time cameraman. He's topless. Oh, I think he was wearing a terrible shirt. And he's also wearing terrible jeans. I loved it. You could see the craft service table on the side. I loved everything about this.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he's told to get ready. And you can imagine, uh, what that would entail. No fluffers involved. Man's doing it for himself.
Ryan: Nope.
Laura: It's so awkward.
Ryan: And it didn't take him long either. He's ready to go.
Laura: He's absolutely ready to go. He's absolutely ready to go professional. But she gets cold feet for a minute. And luckily, bear Chris Cock is able to have a real conversation with her and get her back on set to do the job.
Ryan: Uh,
00:30:00
Ryan: it's the director that gets her to do that, though.
Laura: Oh, it was that guy.
Ryan: Yeah, it's the director. And I'm pretty sure he's probably a real director as well. Cause I can't see him. The cast list is fucking massive.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Um, you have to kind of watch the film. So if we're not 100% sure, I think naming everybody's gonna be.
Laura: That won't make any sense.
Ryan: It's not gonna make any difference. Yeah.
Laura: So she gets back on set, and the moment the camera turns on, she just clicks right into character. She's ready to go, and they just start filming the scene. So, yeah, Brian gets his pants off and, oh, it's so funny. He's holding the camera, right, and he's just trying to shuggle his pants down, and he's, like, trying to step them, uh, off. And I think he even maybe tried to get a little bit of help to get his jeans off. And then, you know, and then the scene kind of goes from there. Yeah, but, yeah, there's just a classic porn shot of her on her knees, and he's got the camera, and it's just, you know, from his waist down, and, well, this is.
Ryan: This is one of the few occasions in any film that we've covered where there is a straight up close up on a big, erect dick.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: And for the most part, the scene itself is comprised of a lot of very tight, extreme close ups. But this is the thing. Like, we are seeing that dick from the perspective of her eyeline and where she is kneeling down from, and that's all you see. So it's very clever in the respect that, like, this. Like, this is it. Like, this is her moment. And this Johnson's just, like, literally staring at her, and it is right in her face, and it is so imposing. And I do think that, like, this mood, this moment in the film probably bar any of the other, is, like, one of the most important moments in the film and probably in any film that we recover on the podcast, because it's the. It is the epitome, the perfect shot that encapsulates how she's feeling at this particular moment, because it's daunting. Like, in your. Looking at it, you're like, holy fucking. It's, like, right there, right in your face, and it's like, all right, let's go.
Laura: He's also a. You know, he's a professional.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Uh, adult film actor. And if anyone has seen pornography, this guy is, uh. Uh, it's huge and it's scary. It's huge and it's scary.
Ryan: Yeah. So I do. I do respect. And this. This moment probably, you know, uh, because this is the only kind of time this happens. And we. I guess there's a level of fixation on it because it is important after this, like, the rest of the scenes, you know, dicks are there, but they're not as. They're not as, uh, prominent as this moment is, because even if this is just the moment in the movie and it obviously isn't, um, this would be more than enough, like, completely for us to cover it on the podcast.
Laura: Like, this is the seminal penis.
Ryan: Oof. Yeah. That was a word choice, wasn't it?
Laura: Thank you. I did it on purpose.
Ryan: Oh.
Laura: Because, uh, if she didn't touch that wiener there would be no other wieners after that.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: No, because she would be too scared.
Ryan: Well, the film would be over.
Laura: Exactly.
Ryan: Yeah. Rocky wouldn't go the twelve yard, twelve rounds. It would be. It would be overdevelop. Yeah.
Laura: There's one part of that scene that really grossed me out. So, you know, boy girl scene. And they have sex, and he's laying on his back and there's a shot of his toes. Did you see that? Yeah, they were disgusting. He needed a pedicure so bad. And I'm thinking all of the prep that she has to do. All the prep, she has to go. You know, everyone has to get tested. Right. But you have to douche, you have to shave. You have to, like, you have to make sure that you're. You don't have.
Ryan: Make sure it's all clean in there. So everything's. Yeah, everything's good to go.
Laura: Because then I think he even says that he's like, oh, so you can be nice and clean for me. Okay.
Ryan: Well, I think.
Laura: What does he have to do? No, well, he couldn't even get his toenails clipped.
Ryan: Well, Laura, to be honest, like, his. His dick is on the outside. Like, you can clean a penis relatively quite easily.
Laura: Like, also clip your toenails.
Ryan: You can also look at. Yeah, but here's the thing. Like. Like, you're not. You're not gonna fixate on his fucking toes during the scene. But, like, if she's got anything up inside her and that stuff starts
00:35:00
Ryan: coming out when they start having sex, it's gonna put people off and they're not gonna want.
Laura: I was trying to make a funny point. We don't need to go into the mechanics of douching.
Ryan: Oh, I'm really sorry. Anyway.
Laura: Oh, my gosh.
Ryan: Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, you can't just start blaming him.
Laura: I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying that if everyone is getting ready, he also should take care of himself. That's all.
Ryan: I'm sure he does. He knows what he's up to. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. Yeah. No, but I did, like, that shot of the feet because of the, um. Yeah. Cause again, it's like, it's what she's seeing. And, like, that's what she's looking at is just his feet. Yeah, it's pretty funny.
Laura: Um, when they finish and she's all covered in gooze. I thought it was hilarious. Cause she gets her phone and I never thought about before now about adult film actors being online and being social um, media and things like that.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So this was really interesting to me, too. So she's all, no one wants to touch her. They're like, get her wet wipe immediately. Do you want to take a shower? She goes, give me my phone. She starts taking pictures, and it's all gooey and all stringy and gross, but she posts it online and she does a hashtag. And I'm probably going to pronounce this wrong, but it's gentilagen. And I looked up what that meant because she had some hashtags in Swedish and then some in English when she was making her post. Yeah, but apparently that's a pretty common phrase in Sweden, and it means putting the success of the group before the accomplishments of the individual. Huh.
Ryan: Huh. Interesting.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: So gentle.
Ryan: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, adult film stars and the prevalence of social media, like, they survive off the. Off the back of their fan base, you know?
Laura: Hey, I'm joy. I just made it to L. A. And I've been tested, and I'm ready to suck some dicks. I like joy a lot. I like joy because that's the one person that Bella becomes really good friends with, and she is from Florida, and she is the most chaotic person in the entire film. And I thought that was incredibly appropriate.
Ryan: Yeah, no, she's a. She's a. Yeah, she's a chaotic force. I mean, that whole pornhouse situation. Um. Yeah, like the bitch in the. Like, it's not it. We don't see it as bad as it probably could be, but you can see how a situation like that could. Could escalate.
Laura: Well, Bear is the one who warns her. Oh, you're staying in one of the model houses. Be careful of those women. They will lie. They will steal from you. They'll steal your jobs, they'll steal your stuff.
Ryan: Well, that's Bear and the director.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: They've been around for a while, but.
Laura: The women are not like that. These particular women that she ends up being with are not like that at all. They're all friends and they eat pizza and watch Game of Thrones together.
Ryan: I mean, usually in a storytelling sense, if there's a warning like that, you're expecting something to happen. But then when something does happen, it's kind of really Bella's fault, to be honest.
Laura: 100% her fault.
Ryan: Yeah. So it's kind of different to that. Them describing that situation, to me, makes complete sense to me. Like, I can. I could see that escalating and going out of control relatively quite quickly.
Laura: Well, that is her journey. May the bridges she burn light the way.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Because she is on a destructive journey. And it doesn't matter who gets in her way.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: If you're not going to help, she keeps saying it over and over again. I'm here to work. I'm here. I'm not here to make friends.
Ryan: I'm here to work.
Laura: And she's got joy being a classic Florida girl and being very open and very aggressive with her love. And again, being a wild, chaotic force who's just constantly telling her, it's you and me. It's you and me. Bella, I love you. You're my best friend.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And, uh, Bella's just like, I need to. I need to get two wieners in my butt so I can be a star.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I'm a star.
Laura: Um, I'm a big, bright, shining star.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Like, bella's professionalism comes in peaks and troughs and, you know, there's smatterings of dicks and photos and stuff like that. I mean, the next scene that we covered, I, um. There's less of it, but it's like the fetish scene with the director that she met at the party.
Laura: Um, everyone was so nice. That was such
00:40:00
Laura: a professional set. You've got a female director. They were really taking care of her, and everyone was super nice.
Ryan: Yeah. I guess the reason why that's like that is because, obviously, with what's coming up, it's a much. It's much more of a contrast. But I do think the scene that's coming up, which is, to me, I think it's like Dixie number four.
Laura: Well, I think I might have missed some, you know, because it is pretty constant. But, uh, the bondage kind of kink scene is 45 minutes and 50 seconds, and then ten minutes later, at 55 minutes and 25 seconds is the next penis scene. But that is the rough scene where she asked Mike, her agent, to get her a rough scene, because when she started off, she's going around to different agencies, and they're saying, what are you into? What are your things? And she said, I want to start slow. She's not doing anal. She wants boy girl girl solo, one on one stuff. And she's doing that with Joy, who's like, I'll do anything. And she's just listening all the things. She's like, I'm a whore. So she's realizing in order to become a Spiegeler girl. Right. Which is the cream of the crap.
Ryan: Pretty much, yeah.
Laura: That's gotta do everything.
Ryan: She has to be open to do anything, I think, is the big thing. And she hasn't yet demonstrated her, her worth in the industry because I guess, like, at least in the industry that's depicted here is like, the further you go, the higher you go, technically. Yeah.
Laura: So she asks him to set her up with a rough scene and ends up being two guys and her. And it starts off so nice, like all of the other ones. Where can I get you new water? Here's the things you need. Uh, let us know if anything goes too far and you need to take a break. And they go, try not to take a break, but if you need to, you know, they're saying, though, all the right things. They're saying everything you want to hear to make you feel comfortable. It doesn't turn out that way.
Ryan: No.
Laura: She does try her best to keep it together, but when you're getting spit on and slapped and getting the shit.
Ryan: Kicked out of you, pretty much, yeah. Um, yeah, she had the shit kicked out of her. And effectively, like, you don't see it. Um, but, yeah, I mean, effectively to her, like, it's like it's a sexual assault.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: And it certainly is. It certainly is. Uh, yeah, it certainly, uh, comes across that way because they end up stopping the shoot, like, a couple of times, and there's a lot of flashes and stuff, like, near towards the end because it's kind of like she's repulsed by what's happening to her.
Laura: She's crying. But then also, you would expect the person to be crying, you know?
Ryan: But the thing is, is like, you know, the guys who are in it, they're very professional. And they do realize when she starts to scream and cry that they do. They just immediately stop and they're like, oh, fuck, are you okay? Because, again, these people are fully expecting, because they've done this before, that the person knows what they're getting themselves into.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: And it's a business. Again, they need to make sure that they're ticking off the boxes and things like that.
Laura: It was. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Ryan: Well, the director and the camera operator, he kind of talks her back into getting it done, and then when it stops again, he's like, look, everything you've done up until this point, we are right near the end will be for fucking nothing if we don't just finish it. Yeah, and that's like, that's some real talk right there. Because, again, like, after this scene. Because this is the scene. This scene's awful. Right. It's very uncomfortable. I certainly don't like. I mean, I. We had it on this morning. I fast forwarded through it because I'm like, I don't want to watch this again. It's like, it's meant to be that way. Like, it's meant to be fucking horrible and you're meant to feel uncomfortable watching it. But there is a, uh, there is a level to where, you know, I stand with, like, the agent, I stand with, like, the director, and I'm just kind of like, why the fuck did you not, like, what did you expect? Like, what did you expect to happen?
Laura: I agree.
Ryan: You didn't do your research. You didn't look it up. You didn't do this. You didn't do that. It's like you could tell Mike all, you want to go fuck himself. Like, he'll get another girl, and it doesn't really matter to him, but he's just like, look, this is the way it's going to be. What did you expect when you got on that plane to come to America?
Laura: But it's not even that. It's that she asked for that type of scene.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Because she is so hyper focused on climbing that ladder.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But she wasn't really thinking about the consequences
00:45:00
Laura: of that to her mental health. So that's fully on her.
Ryan: But then other than the horrific realization that what is going on is fucking horrible, like, what are we supposed to, like as an audience? What are we supposed to take from that. That moment? It's like, okay, maybe we're, like, as a character, she feels like she's well in over her head and it's maybe time for her to go home.
Laura: Yeah, she considered it.
Ryan: Yeah. Or is it. Is it time to start chasing some chickens?
Laura: Well, you know, I think it's time to chase some chickens.
Ryan: Like, pint aside, a beefe in a chill, like, in a meat freezer, you know, what do you want to claim those steps?
Laura: Are you wanting to jump into black.com?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Okay. So, like, 15 minutes after that scene, we have the black.com scene, an hour, nine minutes and 20 seconds where we get to see bear again, that treasure of a man. She goes on black.com, which is, you know, there's a porn website because as Bear said that the interracial porn is the biggest taboo, right? Yeah, that's what he said. And she's like, that's racist. He goes, yeah, duh. Uh, it is racist. So she calls black.com, and she says that she will do the shoot for free and asks bear to do a double anal scene with her. And she's been practicing, like, we've been talking about getting those chickens and putting and stretching out her butt to make sure that she can, uh, try, try to make this happen.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So, you know, and this scene is basically the short, you know, this or, uh, the proof of concept that got the feature made was the double anal scene. Got you weapons of ass destruction.
Ryan: Well, the thing is.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, this is not weapons of mass destruction. It's very tasteful.
Ryan: No, well, this is. Yeah, as you might expect with the website name, you kind of get an understanding of, uh, exactly what's going to happen. Two black dudes are going to, you know, show this girl who's all alone a good time, I suppose. Um, it reminds me of. Have you seen a film called the moguls? I think it's with Jeff, uh, bridges, and they decide they're gonna try and save their town by making a porn movie and trying to sell it. And then eventually they end up just making a nice movie. Um, but there's a scene in that where. Because obviously, the common conception is that, uh, black guys have big dicks, right? That's the common conception. Okay, do you agree or not agree? Like, I was. I feel like I'm just talking into a void. But no, in the movie, they hide. Like, Jeff Bridges hires two black guys, and then in the scene when they go to take their trousers off, they have to cut, and it's the conversation they have in the hallway where they're just like, this is meant to be the scene, you know, with the two black guys. And they're like, look, we don't know what you were expecting, but, like, we don't all have massive dicks.
Laura: Have I seen this film?
Ryan: I've got it on dvd. It's very funny. Like, it's not. It's not a great film, but it's very funny.
Laura: Is it the amateurs? Maybe it has two names potentially.
Ryan: I thought it was the moguls.
Laura: Maybe.
Ryan: I think that's what it is on. On my thing. It could be the amateurs, but yeah, no, I think it was called the moguls. But, yeah, there's that scene, and I thought that scene was pretty funny where it's just two guys just like, yeah, just so you're aware, like, not all of us have magic massive cocks.
Laura: That's pretty funny.
Ryan: But, like, yeah, I mean, if anything's gonna stick, I mean, good for them, you know?
Laura: Oh, my gosh. The, uh. Yeah, there's not too much to say about this. She does it. You know, Bear had to shoot stuff into his penis to make sure that he stayed erect.
Ryan: Yeah, and there's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of that going on in the industry as well, genuinely. Where it's just. It's super, super difficult after you've been doing it for a long time to keep it. To keep it from going soft. Um, the one thing I do like about this scene, because it happens and you see a lot of dicks getting robbed and injected, that sort of thing. Like, that's fine. There's nothing. There's nothing as prominent as what happens in that first scene. I think that's what we kind of get out of the way first. There's nothing as prominent as what happens in that. That first scene that she does at the beginning of the movie.
Laura: Yeah, there's, there's definitely more scenes as well. I think I missed some. There's one where. Which it. Oh, it probably was after this. Oh, I did write it down. Floatlicker.
Ryan: Okay. Yeah, that's
00:50:00
Ryan: fine. But even then, like, that's not, that's not too prominent either. You see bits and balls, but it's not like, it's not as prominent that. As that first scene is. No, but, um, the one thing I do like, in the extreme double DP scene is that she looks up and sees the window and it's just like the clouds.
Laura: Dude, you gotta meditate. You gotta go to another place. Cause that can't feel good. But that's the whole point. It cannot feel good. They told her in the beginning of the movie that they, in order to be the best of the best, you have to enjoy what you do.
Ryan: Yeah. Uh.
Laura: How can you enjoy that?
Ryan: It's rough. Yeah, it's rough.
Laura: I wrote something down. I don't even know what it means. I said it was like, probably like having a reverse baby from your butt. I don't know what that means. Uh, but I wrote that down because I was probably just thinking, my God, it'll never be the same back there. No, there's that conversation that she has with joy in the bathroom where she said if she finally decides to have kids at some point, there's gonna be shooting out of her like a cannon.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Like, that's the, uh. That's a kind of aspect that. Yeah, like, I mean, I don't know if that's a question that's ever been posed. It's just kind of implied that, uh. Yeah, like, it's just. Nothing's ever going to be the same, you know? Or like, how does a porn star enjoy sex after doing porn. Like that sort of idea, you would.
Laura: Hope that they would stop before they hated it, you know, because you go into that, well, at least our character Bella goes into it for the love of sex. That's why she got into it. It wasn't about money.
Ryan: I guess my main thing would be like, you go in there, you start, you know, youngish, legal, obviously. And then once you know your time is coming, then you move into directing and stuff.
Laura: Oh, interesting.
Ryan: I would say, like, that feels like a natural progression to me. Um, but obviously, you know, it's, uh. Yeah, it's not, it's not ideal.
Laura: I mean, you could, you could pull a maxine and try to get into horror, you know?
Ryan: Yeah. Either way. I mean, I haven't seen that movie, so I don't know. But, like, it does. Yeah. Like, to the heady heights that she eventually gets to, because that's where, that's where this scene gets her. Things seem a lot cleaner. Things seem a lot more under control. Um, there's more a focus on the business. There's more a focus on how you look, how you represent yourself. And obviously, you know, she'll be getting paid a lot more, and she'll be working with, you know, better stars, she'll be working with the best in the industry, and she'll be looked after a lot more. And I think that's what happens when she does become a Spiegler girl at that point, because certainly you can definitely see a, ah, see a shift between and I don't know. I don't know if this was deliberate of, you know, the filmmaker. Certainly, um, our lead character who plays Bella, she's very attractive, right?
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Ryan: There's certainly a sense of the girls that she's hanging out with in the Pornhouse. There's a little element of trash going on there. And I don't know if it's a deliberate choice from the director to do that now, obviously you get an incense of like, their personality and stuff like that. Like, that's perfectly fine. But there's a huge difference between the girls who are in the Pornhouse and the girls who are working for Spiegler like that.
Laura: Oh, absolutely. I think that's another reason that Bella wanted to get out of there, because she knew the quality of everything was going to go up, because the girls that, ah, she's around, I mean, just the way they carry themselves.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: So.
Ryan: And it's like, it's a hard thing for me as a man to like, like, press because it just makes me sound like an asshole, but.
Laura: But I think that's. It's very intentional. You know, these girls are, uh, sitting around eating pizza. She's trying to take care of herself, and. And these women are just lazing about.
Ryan: Smoking weed, uh, blotchy skin. Uh, yeah, just kind of, like a little bit. I'm gonna say a little bit more rough around the edges. Let's kind of put it that way.
Laura: Yes. But everyone has a place in.
Ryan: It's hard to say something nice about it. Yeah, it's hard to be nice about it.
Laura: But these women are very caring and very sweet people who do become her friends. But I think that. I guess so that also leaves you kind of wherever the story ends up going was because of the friendships and seeing. Is this what I want? You know?
Ryan: Yeah, I
00:55:00
Ryan: do. I. Like, I agree. And I don't agree in certain aspects of that. Uh, like, her journey, because. Yeah, like, I don't. Yeah. I don't know.
Laura: Like, I mean, she goes through the whole thing, and she's stepping on people along the way. Not in a cruel way, necessarily, but she does what she needs to do to get to the top. She reaches the top and realizes that she is alone, and she doesn't have anyone to fall back on. And so she realizes, you know what? Maybe what was most important is the friends I made along the way.
Ryan: I mean, I get that. Uh, I just don't know how. Yeah, I just don't know how interesting that is. Like, it. Like, to me, personally, I think joy. Like, I think Joy's fine. Like, I think those characters are fine. I'm just like. I'm like, what was your goals? Like, yeah, you got to the top. You got to the top quicker than most people, and it's like, you're just gonna. You're just gonna throw it away because it's like, well, what about my friends?
Laura: Well, because she realized maybe it wasn't for her. Maybe she'll be happy to land somewhere in the middle.
Ryan: Maybe.
Laura: You never know.
Ryan: Yeah, just. Yeah. Um. Yeah, it seems like to me, I'm like. I'm like, um. Yeah, you explaining it that way, I'm.
Laura: Like, okay, I love a tale of friendship. I love a best friend story. Joy and Bella are best friends, and she's realizing now, because she's sitting in a car with Ava, who is just a non person. She doesn't have a personality. When they finally do their scene together as well, they do a girl girl scene.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Ah, okay. To where the director says, ava, all right, you're gonna get down there and you're gonna eat Bella out like there is no tomorrow. And they're like, okay, go. And she gets down there and she starts being mean, and I feel like she's lying. She's doing it to be. She's trying to get a one up.
Ryan: On her, and she's being a cunt.
Laura: She is. Cause she goes, oh, I think she has a yeast infection. We need to do something else smelly. Yeah. Which fair if that was true, but I don't think it was.
Ryan: I don't know if it was true.
Laura: It was a power play.
Ryan: But, yeah, the director's not gonna be like, well, let me have a sniff.
Laura: Right?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: It's just like, oh, for fuck's sake.
Laura: So then it turns into a strap on scene where Bella then thinks that she is doing the power moves. But what she realizes is this person's a professional and she's acting.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So she thinks she's going, oh, uh, choke on it. And being all rough. And after they're seen, she apologizes. And Ava's like, for what? Yeah, this is my job.
Ryan: She knows what she's doing. I mean, here's the thing. Ava's doing it right. She's not making any pals along the way. She's making plenty of money. She keeps herself looking pretty, and then when our time comes to go, she'll have plenty of money in the bank, and she'll be laughing all the way there.
Laura: I agree.
Ryan: Like, I think she's playing it the way that you should be playing it, but that she.
Laura: Yes, Bella is soft. She is soft.
Ryan: She's a little too.
Laura: Yeah, she's harder than she is, which is evident from many situations that she put herself in.
Ryan: Yes. Well, as we know. As we know, the Swedish were, uh. Yeah, they didn't want to go to war during the second world war. And, you know, they're very much a pacifist country.
Laura: Wow. Okay. What the hell?
Ryan: What?
Laura: Do you have anything else to add before? I have one more thing I wanted to mention before we get into our ratings and things. Is there anything else you wanted to drop in?
Ryan: No, I think. I think that's it. Uh, I'm just going to look up if Sweden actually was a pacifist country during the second world war.
Laura: So. Wow. A 24 had acquired the us distribution rights to pleasure, but then neon actually acquired it instead because there was, uh, some sort of conflict over a 24.
Ryan: They fucking declared neutrality in September 1939.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: They were perfectly happy just to sit back and watch. Wow.
Laura: Wow. Okay. Uh, let me get back to this. So a 24 had planned to release an edited version, more of an r rated theatrical cut, and then they were going to do an uncensored version. But neon was like, no, we're not going to do any sort of alternative edit. And so Neon acquired the rights to pleasure overdose after all. But there are still two versions. You know, you still have this one version and then you have this uncut version.
Ryan: I think there's probably. There's probably. The neon cut probably makes more
01:00:00
Ryan: sense. But I can't tell the difference between the two cuts. It's probably because the director forced her hand a little bit and was like, I want things to be a little bit longer. And she's made things a little bit longer, but it's really like it's of no consequence whatsoever to the quality of the film. Like it doesn't make any difference.
Laura: Correct. Well, I'm going to let you go first with the ratings because I know, because we've talked about it already where you're going to go, so why don't.
Ryan: You just go first, uh, for visibility and context?
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: Yeah. I'll just say five. And that's even just on the basis of that first scene, I like the fact that we're, you know, we're doing a movie about the adult entertainment industry. We have to see some. We have to see some erect dicks. I'm sorry. We have to see some dicks.
Laura: I apologize.
Ryan: This first. This first scene, though, the way that it's depicted in the way that it's shot and the way that it's kind of cut together and things I think is very clever. And I think it does help to substantiate how she's feeling and the intimidation and the, the importance of this moment in her. I chosen career path. So for me, I think this scene is very important. And I also think that it's, uh, uh, it's essential if we don't have this moment in this film, I think the rest of the film kind of falls apart because you're kind of finding, you know, again, like, personally, there's things I don't particularly like or understand about this character, but at the same time, this big moment for her is like, this is the. This is the one stepping stone. Like, she has to get on this step in order to get up these other steps that she's going to go along. And, uh, for me personally, like, the way it's shot, the way that it's put together, the way that scene is depicted and the level of importance and the weight that's put on that scene, I think it's, uh. Yeah, it deserves nothing but five stars as far as I'm concerned.
Laura: Cool. I'm on the same boat. If you don't give this five stars for visibility and context, I don't know what. I don't know what else is better.
Ryan: Then you've got a bad podcast, right? Yeah.
Laura: And we don't. So I agree that first scene is perfect and there is a really great balance between all of the nudity in the film and it's somehow not gratuitous to me. I did not find this gratuitous at all. It's shot in really interesting ways to where you don't really feel that way. Some of it can be shocking, but I feel like a lot of that is down to that one rough scene, which is quite intense and it's a lot to take in and it's difficult to watch. But through the rest of it, it's really casual because it has to be because these people are just doing their jobs. So that's what they have to do to get the job done. And I think that it's done really well.
Ryan: But.
Laura: Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't. Did you think it was gratuitous?
Ryan: I don't think it's a film I'm ever gonna want to watch again. There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of, um.
Laura: Well, why don't you go into your rating then you can add it to your overall rating of the film.
Ryan: So, yeah, so I, uh, originally rated it three because I thought the film was fine. Second time watching it, I gave it three and a half because it's slightly better than that. But again, two and a half is average. So it's better than average. And I do think it's original. I don't think it's posing anything new that we didn't know. And I certainly do have a few questions about her motivations and like why she's deciding to do certain things. They don't seem particularly clear. And there's also certain elements as well. Like hers, uh, I don't find her particularly charismatic. I know we're finding her, you know, we're following her story and stuff. I find the bit players so much more fucking interesting because, you know, it comes from a real place.
Laura: Mhm.
Ryan: So as her, as a lead, I think she's incredibly brave and I think she's, she's diving headfirst into this thing and I think she does an incredible job. But there are certain aspects, I think, that maybe are limited within the writing, where I just don't think there's enough understanding for her motivations as to why she's doing certain things and why she thinks that this is a, uh. Like, she gets on a fucking plane from Sweden and goes all the way to be like, I'm gonna be an ex adult film star. And it's like, I want to know why. Because it sounds like. Cause she's lying to her mother. She's saying she's doing an internship. All this sort of thing, it seems like. And again, people talk to her and say, like, you seem smart, you seem clever, like, why? Why have you made this decision? Because people who do find themselves in that
01:05:00
Ryan: situation, you know, the story's not too different from coming from a broken home or you kind of worked in adult work before, and this felt like a natural progression and all this sort of thing. There's a reason people go into that and there's a reason why they make certain choices the way they make them. And I just don't, I don't see that firmly laid out in this film. And I think I would have liked her better and I would have liked the film better if it was a little bit more strictly laid out. But everything else that happens in the film, I am perfectly happy with it because it is. Those parts are entertaining to me. But, like, I can't watch that, that rough scene again. Like, I genuinely can't. I get no entertainment from that section of the film and it drops my rating for me as well. And I understand why it's there and I understand why it's as uncomfortable as it is. But for me, like, I just, I think I just, I just can't, I can't watch that shit in general anyway. Um, and I, yeah, I just, I can't. I just don't have any revisitability with this thing. I think it's important. I think it's key to, like, what we're doing on the podcast, certainly as a piece of, like, modern sex cinema. But I just. Yeah, I can't see it. I can't see myself ever revisiting it.
Laura: Well, I gave this film four and a half. I really like this motion picture. I think I gave it quite a bit less when I first watched it. I think I gave it a three. But I don't know, there was something. Circumstances. The kind of food I ate that day, how caffeinated I am, how much wine I drank, caffeinated I have when I was watching it. Did I have a good day before watching it? Was it a shit day?
Ryan: I got shit house hammered, and I watched pleasure.
Laura: I remember I had a really nice meal while I was watching it, and I had a couple glasses of wine, and I had a great time. So I was. The circumstances were there. The temperature was right in the house. It felt good.
Ryan: I think the difference. Yeah, I think the difference is, is that. Well, I remember. I remember hearing sex noises because I came home from work and you were watching it. I was like, oh, fuck. What the fuck is that? Like, what? The walls going on.
Laura: The walls are real thin.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: So when there's sex noises. And I had the movie up pretty loud, and he walked in the door and I. Oh, did you? Did you hear it outside? He goes, yes, yes, I can.
Ryan: It was super loud.
Laura: I'm like, oh, boy, it's been loud for an hour and a half.
Ryan: Super fucking loud. Um, yeah, no, maybe. I think I'm more like. I'm more like Ava in that regard. I'm more business like. When I came to sit down and watch the movie, I was analyzing it.
Laura: I'm pleasure. Definitely pleasure.
Ryan: But I'm all business.
Laura: I like that movie a lot. I like a friendship tale. I like, it's not a rags to riches story, but I think that someone following their dreams and maybe deciding it isn't for them is okay. And I liked her journey. I liked her determination. I liked her as a character. And I liked her hair. I liked a lot of their shoes, and I wish I could wear tall shoes. I thought it was very funny. Incredibly colorful, really dark at times. But overall, I think this is a super fun movie. And I don't know if it should be because it's a drama, but I think it's really funny at times. It's just seeing the situations that they're in and pulling back that curtain and seeing all the little details that you maybe wouldn't have thought about. And I find it very enjoyable. And it's not that long, so, yeah.
Ryan: It'S like an hour four.
Laura: I would absolutely watch this again. I've seen it twice, and I put it on today just to kind of refresh myself, and I think it's super funny. So I'll. Yeah, if I can get. I might. We don't own it yet, but I will.
Ryan: I think, yeah, we definitely have different things that we would go to and find, like, entertaining. I think this is. This is one of those moments where I'm just like, you know, I'm like, eh, uh. Not pleasure, but then I'll watch prisoners any day of the week.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And, you know, obviously I've watched some really fucked up stuff that you can't fucking stand, so I'll watch anything.
Laura: You know me, I'll watch pretty much anything.
Ryan: The fucking sadness. Remember watching the sadness? And you were in the room and you didn't even.
Laura: I didn't look over.
Ryan: Also look over.
Laura: To be fair, I was, uh, working. I was working. So, no, I didn't look over.
Ryan: But that movie's fantastic as well. It's.
Laura: So the movies that you rewatch all the time are different than the ones that I rewatch all the time?
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Your comfort movies are seven.
Ryan: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I can see all the lights as well. As I'm watching it, I'm just, like.
Laura: Mouthing the words, you know, minor, like, mamma mia. High fidelity.
Ryan: Yeah. Ah, comfort movies are slightly different.
Laura: Demolition man.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: That's not to say I don't like demolition man. M. Yeah, mamma mia can go fuck
01:10:00
Ryan: itself. That fucking piece of shit.
Laura: But anyway, not gonna comment because everyone knows you're false. And you know what? Actually, no, that's okay. You can have your opinion about it, and I will have mine. Love, mamma mia. And you don't. And that's okay.
Ryan: You know, that doesn't work. You know that, like, whenever I have a differing opinion to anybody else's, I get fucking vilified and drugged through the swamp.
Laura: You're a real, real victim. I'm really sorry.
Ryan: No, that's not what I'm suggesting. Don't turn the tables on me, Laura Hensel. Don't you dare.
Laura: Well, that's kind of it. For this, I'm gonna tell you one of my favorite lines.
Ryan: I can't believe you fucking did this.
Laura: To me in the movie. If it's for free, it's for me. Coming to you from, um, a beautiful palatial mansion in LA. I have been Laura.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm, um, done. Thanks.
Laura: Thanks for the pleasure.
Ryan: Bye.