The second and final part of this year's TOMSGIVING has arrived with STUART: A LIFE BACKWARDS
Oh boy. Looks like we inadvertently put a bunch of sad (but good) films in a row to wrap up 2024. But honestly, it makes sense.
In David Attwood's film, based on the true story of the troubled homeless man called Stuart who meets a writer to detail the intricacies of his life, we are treated to another masterclass from Tom Hardy. In the final part of "Tomsgiving" bit of a tearjerker but it's a good tearjerker. Everyone likes a good cry. It's very therapeutic. Or something.
Anyway, get your tissues you fiends!
Tom's Giving: A Deep Dive into Stuart: A Life Backwards
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE, the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura, and I am joined by my turkey, Ryan.
Ryan: What do you mean by turkey?
Laura: Because it's like Thanksgiving. Tom's giving. Gobble, gobble.
Ryan: Oh, right.
Laura: Tom's giving.
Ryan: When is Thanksgiving, as the time of this episode coming out? Uh, what does. Is it the week after?
Laura: Soon. Real soon. Don't you worry about the dates?
Ryan: Yeah, I love how it's just kind of like. Yeah, no, look, I don't need you to explain to me the exact date. I think it's like the 28th or something, isn't it?
Laura: All you need to worry about is right now is Tom's giving. And Tom is giving us Stuart a Life backwards from 2007.
Ryan: He is? Yes, he is.
Laura: Which is a biographical film or as Tom Hardy and Benedict Cumberbatch like to call it, a murder mystery.
Ryan: Cumberswatch. It's a murder mystery.
Laura: I don't know why they say that, but they found it very amusing in interviews to call it a murder mystery.
Ryan: I guess. I guess it's a, uh.
Laura: Even though this man actually did die.
Ryan: He did. Yeah. It's. It's a real. This is a real tearjerker. It's a real. Like, the thing is, like, we have. We have this film that we're covering right now, and then I can see what we have coming up, and it's. It's a. It's a pretty rough holiday season for us.
Laura: Yeah. It's going to be very sad and very sexy.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: As usual.
Ryan: Get your tissues out.
Laura: For both reasons.
Ryan: Both reasons. Yeah. Certainly if you're a boy. A woman would never use a tissue. Would she, like, dab herself off Goodness. Um, has that ever been a thing that you've ever done?
Laura: No.
Ryan: As a female?
Laura: No.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: Okay. Didn't think we would be going here. Okay.
Ryan: We're going back to the 1950s. We already know this.
Laura: We're just gonna go back to 2007. Stuart A Life Backwards stars Tom Hardy as Stuart Shorter and Benedict Cumberbatch as Alexander Masters.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And the film was directed by David Atwood, but we'll get to him in just a moment. Okay, Well, I tell you the synopsis pulled from letterboxd, which is. This annoys me because it just starts weird. Okay.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Story about the remarkable friendship between a reclusive writer, an illustrator, and a chaotic homeless man whom he gets to know during a campaign to release two charity workers from prison.
Ryan: Oh, is that it?
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: I don't know in what way. Benedict Cumberbatch's character is reclusive at all. He has a lot of friends, a lot of activities.
Ryan: I remember the story of those, uh, charity workers who got arrested.
Laura: The Cambridge Two.
Ryan: Yes, I remember that story in the paper. Now, obviously, Stuart Shorter. I don't know if I ever really knew about him in the media. I don't know if that ever really was a thing.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Um, but certainly when. Yes, the story. I didn't know he was an illustrator. Alexander didn't realize he was an illustrator.
Laura: That was all of the illustrations in the film.
Ryan: Yes, I get that now.
Laura: Did you know that?
Ryan: Well, no, I figured it out from what you just said. I did wonder. I did wonder about those, those animations. Those animations are pretty cool. They're all right. Um, but I am, I am more interested in the story of Stuart for the most part.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Um, but yeah, it's uh. Yeah, it's so. It's all so unbelievably sad. Like, so unbelievably sad. Also, there's a little bit of a, I think maybe at least with you, a little bit of ambiguity as to like, Alexander's motives with Stuart at points sometimes.
Laura: I have seen this movie a couple times and I came out while you were watching it because there was a part I wanted to watch again.
Ryan: This is the first time I've seen the film.
Laura: Right. I've seen it a few times. And I think his character is a bit of an asshole at times. I think he uses him a bit as a project and a bit of a, uh. He shows off a bit like, oh, look at my wild friend. Look at this project I picked up off.
Ryan: Here's my wild, intimidating, poor homeless friend who I'm writing a book about because he's so interesting and you know, he's so parallel to our lives as middle class creatives and intellectuals and stuff.
Laura: He's like a party trick.
Ryan: Yeah, it's a little bit like that. I think.
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Laura: I don't think it ends up that way, but I do think that he uses it that way.
Ryan: But I did understand kind of your apprehensions as to like, his motives. But the thing is that he is earnest. He is. It comes across honestly and affectionately with Stuart because Stuart's not a. He's not a, um, he's not like. The thing is he is. He is steeped in intellectualism himself. Like, he does have. He has a. He has a decent head on his shoulders and the things that hold him back is he has muscular dystrophy he's an alcoholic and he also is addicted to heroin. So, uh, those things set him back quite considerably. But he's street smart, he has an intellectualism about him. Um, he's obviously quite well ready, but obviously he has a lot of demons inside of him that he needs to.
Laura: Struggles with, burn out of himself. But before we get there, why don't you tell us about David Atwood? David Atwood, ah, who we lost this year in March.
Ryan: We did, yeah. He passed away, um, from his fight with Alzheimer's, which was the worst. It is the worst. Um, he was a British television and film director. He, um, was the, he made the Peabody Award winning TV miniseries Shot through the Heart from 1998, in the TV miniseries To the Ends of the Earth in 2005, which got six BAFTA nominations. Now he's mostly known as a TV director, uh, let's put it that way. Bunch of TV loads. He directed 18 episodes of the Bill, which I quite liked. Um, but let's start and look at his filmography. So we have Wild west in 92, Saigon Baby in 95, the Fortunes and Misfortunes of Moll Flanders in 96, Shot through the Heart in 98, Summer in the Suburbs, 2000, Fidel 2002, the Hound of the Baskervilles from 2002, Breaking through from 2003. Um, I think it's also called On Thin Ice as well. It has a couple of titles. To the Ends of the earth, um, from 2005 and Stuart a life backwards from 2007 and then blood and oil in 2010. But like I said, he was mostly a TV director. But obviously by the time he started getting sick, he was not making much in the way of that afterwards.
Laura: Yeah, that's true. I wanted to double check that. To the Ends of the Earth was the film that Benedict Cumberbatch was working on where he got kidnapped and robbed. And I didn't realize that David Atwood had directed that. And he was like, you know, I'll work with him again. Not that it was his fault. David didn't kidnap him.
Ryan: Well, no, it's not that he didn't. It's not that he didn't. Work with him again. Stuart, Life Backwards didn't come out until 2007. To the Ends of the Earth was in 2005. So there was already. Was the kidnapping before Stuart of Life Backwards?
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Oh, okay, I see. Well, obviously he didn't obviously blame him for that kidnapping.
Laura: No, because I mean, how could he? That would be messed up.
Ryan: Unless it was outwith that, put him in the boot of a car and then drove him around. So, like, we're going for a party ride. It's like, okay, David. No, David, please.
Laura: I'm sure it was very traumatic for him. I'm gonna. We're gonna talk a lot about trauma, uh, because of this film, considering how much trauma is involved in our characters in this film.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But also with the actors. So I feel like a lot of people might probably know already that Tom Hardy battled alcoholism and drug addiction in his early years in his twenties.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: And he said that tackling alcoholism in this film in particular wasn't a problem. It was mostly meeting Stewart's mother and also portraying someone with muscular dystrophy because he went to rehab for alcohol and crack cocaine addiction. Tom M. Hardy himself in 2003, after he collapsed on Old Compton street in London in a pool of vomit and blood. And he woke up and thought, this isn't for me.
Ryan: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Laura: So he went to rehab, and then he ended up doing this film. And so he has quite a familiarity with the darkness of that particular condition.
Ryan: There's a certain. Here's the thing. The first time you see him as Stuart, there's. There's a level to which I'm, um. Like. Because you don't know about his muscular dystrophy immediately.
Laura: No.
Ryan: So you're kind of like, okay, so what's. What's Tom Hardy's take
00:10:00
Ryan: on this character? And for me, there's a slight amount of apprehension when you first see him. Um, and he's shuffling around the way that he is. And you're like. You're like, is that 100% necessary?
Laura: Right.
Ryan: You know what I mean? You're kind of like. You're like, m. It's like, is this. Is this. Is this correct? But the thing is, is that obviously the muscular dystrophy comes into play, like, later on in the story, and it starts to be explained the more you start to know Stuart a little bit more closely. Um, because, again, the film is played. The film is played very similarly to the book. The book is interesting because it literally is about Stuart and his life that's played backwards. So it starts with his death and then obviously ends with his birth, which I think is actually very interesting.
Laura: Like, how did we get here?
Ryan: How did we get to this point? Which is kind of very film noir. It's very Sunset Boulevard in that respect. You know, like, that poor sucker. Look at him in the pool, dead. It's me, you know, and it's like, let's find out how we got to this. How we got to this moment.
Laura: Um, because, yeah, I mean, if we didn't say it already, this is based on a true story. And Alexander Masters, who wrote the book, who is played by Benedict Cumberbatch, also wrote the screenplay for this film.
Ryan: Also wrote the screenplay, which is. I mean, I'm, um. This film, at least to me, it's. It is fascinating. And I like. I like stuff like this because it's just. It's just really good. It's a good bunch of character actors just kind of letting rip. Now, whatever you might say about Benedict Cumberbatch is, like, portrayal of Alexander. It's more a case of, like, you know, it's written by Alexander himself. So there also has to be a level of honesty that's part of the storytelling here. So it's kind of just like if we're looking at it from the perspective that we're like, oh, we feel like Alexander's acting a little bit like a prick. It's like, well, the real Alexander wrote it that way.
Laura: And they spoke on the phone on a regular basis.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So if he ever had questions, he'd go, oh, what about your glasses? Do you wear your glasses? He goes, well, I don't wear my glasses all the time. Sometimes I don't wear my glasses. And Cumberbatch is like, question mark. Okay. I don't know what to do with that information. But they were in constant contact, so anytime he had any inquiries, he could be like, dude, what's up?
Ryan: So.
Laura: So you're right. Yeah. I mean, he wrote the story, so if he came off as an asshole.
Ryan: It'S probably because he came off like an asshole.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Because he wrote it that way. It's certainly like, as a writer and, you know, I think you're referring to at least, like, one moment in the.
Laura: One moment really upset me.
Ryan: They go to. They basically. He takes Stuart with him to his friend's, like, country house, basically.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And they're sitting after having, uh. What was it?
Laura: It's convict curry.
Ryan: Awesome. Yeah. Uh, it does look like murder, that curry.
Laura: It's funny because he didn't want to eat it the first time. He made it for him because Stuart got council housing and he was living alone. And obviously Alexander's trying to write a book about Stuart's life. He finds it very fascinating. So he's, uh, with him all the time, researching his life, writing notes and, uh, trying to get his stories down on paper. And when he makes him the. He calls It. Convict Curry the first time, he didn't want to eat it.
Ryan: No.
Laura: And he looks very uncomfortable. And then, you know, he brings him to his friend's house in the country and has him make dinner.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it's. Again, it's like a party trick. And it's. I find it so upsetting.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Um, because Stewart's such an incredibly genuine character in person.
Ryan: Yes, he is. And there's something about, obviously, Tom Hardy's portrayal, because I think we talked about Bronson. It's just kind of like Bronson's a career best. Like, I mean, I don't know at this point.
Laura: Yeah. Is it this?
Ryan: Yes. Stuart's very, very convincing, and there's just very, like, quite a few facets of his character. Because the thing is, is that because of the way the story is told, there's parts of you that are. You are not. You are not supposed to sympathize with Stuart, but you sympathize with Stuart.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: And the thing is, is that he's. He is kind of. He. He is a complicated man who has a very dark past, and he is dealing
00:15:00
Ryan: with a lot of very horrible and dark personal demons that have really set him back in life. And it's very difficult for you to not sympathize with him when he has moments where he cracks, where he breaks, where he basically submits to kind of violent outrages and stuff like that. And it's kind of certainly when he's diving, like, Alexander's diving into the story of Stuart to try and, like, plow these bits of information from him. He's very apprehensive to, like, let those stories out. But those little tidbits that he kind of puts out there. I mean, one of them which kind of made me feel a little bit less endeared to Stuart was he was talking about, um, like, child molestation, basically. And there's a lot of secrecy behind what was the one moment that got him. That got him sentenced to prison as, like, a category one, like, offense. And that's kind of bandied about a little bit. And you're like, hm, Is this what it's alluding to? And I will tell you this. Spoiler alert. He didn't do that. He wasn't, uh, effectively the way that.
Laura: I didn't even think about that. Maybe it's because I knew already, because I'd watched it so long ago, and I already knew that, uh, he was. Well, I think it's a really interesting way of putting it together, because you're saying how it's hard. It's like you don't want to sympathize with him, but you can't help it. But the worst of it is from his own childhood. And you do not know what that is until the end of the film.
Ryan: Yes. Because the life is being told backwards.
Laura: Exactly. And I think that's. If you had known about that in the beginning, you would always sympathize and you would always feel bad. You go, oh, it has to be because of his horrible childhood and you know, sexual assault and all of these things from when he was a little, little kid.
Ryan: Yes. And he was a disabled boy and he was bullied and his. Basically you find out uh, that like the sexual abuse, he didn't commit any sexual abuse. He was abused by his own brother. And that happened for years and years and years up to the point where he broke and he's like forcing his parents, his mother to send him into care, which consequently going into care meant he ended up in the clutches of a very real predator of the time who also abused him for years and years and years and years, which kind of set him on this very destructive path.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: The way that the story is also told is that he's like again giving out little tidbits and he starts talking about the kiddie fiddling and you can see from Alexander's face when he starts kind of bringing it out there. You're like, hold on, what has Stuart done? But it's because he doesn't want to talk about it because it's 100%. He was the, he was the victim in the scenario. But it's just something that has stayed with him his entire life and completely mapped out his pathway. So a very kind of self destructive upbringing that's kind of led him to the pathway that he's in, he's in today. And the muscular dystrophy was just something that he's unfortunately just had to deal with for most of his life. So.
Laura: Right. Yeah, no, it's, I think that it's a really wonderful way of telling that story and I think it. Yeah, I think it works perfectly.
Ryan: Yeah. So I mean, to be fair, it's, it's a very, it's an interesting film to watch, but when it's at its very, it's, it's very darkest. It's incredibly difficult to watch. So.
Laura: Which is interesting because it starts off very light and a lot of the movie is very light. It's like, it's kind of like a buddy road trip story for a lot of um. The film. And it's funny. You get to see Alexander loosening up and kind of getting into the groove of Stuart's. Well, maybe not get into the groove of Stuart's life necessarily, but, you know, he would, like, wipe off Stuart's fork, you know, that he'd handed him. Like, he was just kind of gross, maybe a little grossed out by him. And then eventually they would drink out of the same beer can, you know, and they would share cigarettes or whatever. Like, they would always be pals.
Ryan: Yeah. Because that's like, you're given little tidbits of information about. About how Stuart lives his life. And I think, you know, to begin with, he's. He's quite charming and he's quite endearing, and I think his intelligence shines through. But the thing is, is that he's never taken seriously because he's seen as a, uh, you know, a member of the homeless community who's also an alcoholic and he's also a, uh, drug user. So it's kind of like you don't. You don't ever take him seriously. And I think that's kind of the way that
00:20:00
Ryan: Alexander approaches him to begin with, is that he, you know, they're brought together because they're. They're protesting the arrest of the two charity workers. Um, and that kind of begins this story. But you obviously see that Alexander turns him into a little bit more of a project because it's a case of just like. Even then Stuart realizes himself. He's just like, I don't want. He doesn't want to feel like he's being exploited. But I think that's kind of where a lot of the charm comes in, is that Stuart slowly begins to open up and he starts to. Starts, uh, to really kind of share a lot of what he is and who he is as a person.
Laura: So it was probably the best person for Alexander to meet in the story, at least. Who knows what it was like in real life. Hopefully a little similar, because it did make Alexander a better person as well, because he even said that he was working at the charity because he didn't have to work regular Hour, and it was just kind of an easy thing for him to do.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it's like, okay, do you care about these people? Do you care about the people who don't have homes that are looking for assistance, that need help?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: You know, Stuart takes him to his house because where he thinks he lives, and it's in the woods.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: You know, and he's got the little poster of the Cambridge Too tacked up on a tree.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: In the woods. He's like, yeah, this, uh. Yeah, you can keep your stuff, your flyers and your envelopes at my place.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: In the woods.
Ryan: Yeah, it's.
Laura: It's really quite tragic, but it's. Yeah. And it ends up being pretty tragic eventually anyway.
Ryan: It does end up being tragic, but it's kind of. It's more about how both of these characters, by coming together, enrich each other's lives.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: But the thing is, obviously it's very difficult for Stuart to stray from the path of self destruction that he set himself on because that's what all he's kind of known effectively. Um, and the thing is, I do quite like about the story is that, yeah, you see him drinking an awful lot. I mean, that's okay. Um, but you never ever see him taking drugs. You see drug paraphernalia, but you never see him actually taking drugs as far as I'm aware.
Laura: He's a private boy in that respect.
Ryan: Yeah. And I guess like there's maybe an element of shame that's involved in that too, where he's just like, he's not going to do it in front of anybody.
Laura: Well, exactly. And that also comes back to what annoyed me when he took him to Norfolk. He also. This ties in a bit to the penis. Well, it ties in quite a bit to the penis scene, but yeah, ah, he takes him to Norfolk after he was told by the magistrate to not leave the city. And he goes, I can't go to Norfolk with you to hang out with your friends in the country because I have to stay here because the judge said so.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he takes him anyway. I'm like, dude, um.
Ryan: Yes, I think. Yes. And m. No, I mean he's also.
Laura: No. Yeah, I just think he's an at this point. That's why.
Ryan: But it's kind of like, it's, it's about, it's about, um, it's definitely about enriching this, this man's life though. Like, it's definitely about that. Plus, he also had a car.
Laura: He did have the car.
Ryan: You know what I mean? Because Cumberswatch in the movie, um, can't drive. And even, even, even Stewart's just kind of just like, how can you not drive? But like, like Stuart doesn't have a license either. So he has a car somehow. Um, but he doesn't, he doesn't, uh, he doesn't have a license and he doesn't, he doesn't drive anywhere under. He doesn't drive anything over 30 miles per hour.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Even on a motorway. So.
Laura: Well, he drives in the correct lane, at least.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, he seems to be. Seems to be doing okay. He's not being caught by the. I mean, again, like, it doesn't really matter if he gets caught by the police. I mean, he's already been to prison, like, 31 times at this point.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah, he sure has.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: I have all these notes about the beginning of the movie, and we haven't even. Maybe we're doing it backwards, as it should be.
Ryan: Yeah. I don't know.
Laura: Then we're telling it forwards.
Ryan: This is like. The film is like this. It's like, uh, you said it's like a buddy comedy road trip. You know, Odyssey, tragedy, you know? Um. Because what kind of ties immediately into, like, the dick scene is that
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Ryan: everything seems to be going all right. Like, everything seems to be going okay. Like, everyone. Everything's on, like, an even keel.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And people seem happy.
Laura: The campaign is going fairly well. The book writing's going well. Stuart seems to be happy enough and thriving, and he's got his own place. And he's making delicious sandwiches.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: With deep fried chicken and ketchup.
Ryan: Well, that's bacon.
Laura: That was bacon.
Ryan: Yeah, it's bacon. It's a bacon sarnie.
Laura: That was a sandwich. But he put raw chicken in the fryer.
Ryan: That wasn't raw chicken. That was, uh, bacon.
Laura: That's gross.
Ryan: That was slices of bacon in the deep fat fry and they curled up.
Laura: That looked disgusting, but it was supposed to look gross.
Ryan: Yeah, I mean, it's meant to look disgusting. Um, but yeah, it's kind of covered in tomato sauce as well.
Laura: Well, he asked him brown or red.
Ryan: Sauce, and he put. He put it on a cd because.
Laura: He didn't have any plates.
Ryan: He didn't have any plates. Yeah.
Laura: That's one of the most famous clips of that film. And it's really funny.
Ryan: Yeah. But, um.
Laura: Yeah, he makes the greatest noises. I wrote that down. And I know that it's probably not the night. It's not a great thing to say because I, uh. You know, it m. Might be because of his condition or because of his alcoholism, or it might just be part of his personality, but he makes all these really interesting noises.
Ryan: I think it's all very involuntary.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: You know, so I don't think he's like. Yeah.
Laura: Not like he's wheezing or anything, but when he's making the sandwich. Right. And he's squishing it down and he makes this kind of moaning noise. It's mhm. Funny.
Ryan: It's probably because his body is kind of.
Laura: Don't make me feel bad with what you're gonna say.
Ryan: I guess not. But he's not. He's not.
Laura: He's acting.
Ryan: He's not comfortable.
Laura: These are acting choices. Okay. And his acting choices made me giggle and I liked them.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: He, Tom Hardy does not have muscular dystrophy.
Ryan: No, he doesn't. But he probably met a bunch of folk who have muscular dystrophy and he could have reacted to that. Yeah, he's very good in this.
Laura: He's Tom Hardy. What a treasure he is.
Ryan: So back to the story and where we are. So basically the film, you think whenever everything you think is going relatively quite well, something very dark happens. And this is what our dick scene is.
Laura: Right. So Alexander is at a dinner party. Yeah. And he's drinking wine and he's talking about Stuart with his friends. And he sees a helicopter go past.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And they all kind of look up, they notice this helicopter. And you don't know what it's about. It's kind of random at the moment.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And then you find out what was going on later. This is about 43 minutes, 55 seconds into the film.
Ryan: Yep.
Laura: And when you hear the story, this is when Stuart and Alexander are at court and he's being asked what happened that night?
Ryan: Mhm. And basically he's, he's gotten a knife and he's tried to. He's like effectively, in short, he's had like a mental break. And this has happened a few times in his, in his life. It happened when he was younger, it happened when he was with his girlfriend, who he has a kid with at the time. And he has these breaks where he, he just, he just can't take it. And basically he described it as the idea that the devil lives inside him. Um, and he uses fire to purify the evil that's inside of him. And he really kind of sees the hatred and the anger and the violence that's brewed inside of him is like this, this demon that he's trying to excise to try and be a better person. But really the, the aspect of this part of the story is that he's attempted to cut the head off his neighbor. And um.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: He's, he's uh, this has kind of sent him into a, into a spiral. And he's got a knife and he's covered in blood and he's.
Laura: Well, he's taped knives not only to his hands, he's taped knives to both of his wrists and his legs.
Ryan: Uh-huh.
Laura: And he's not wearing any clothing.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: He's got. What do you call it? Chip fat or chip. No chip. Oil that was on the stove.
Ryan: There's a chip pan fire.
Laura: Chip pan fire. And because he said that, the police came by and they thought there was, like, an oil fire or something.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: That had happened.
Ryan: Yeah. There's a helicopter burning oil. And they. Yeah, they. Because they're, Again, they're concerned he's gonna burn the entire complex down.
Laura: Correct.
Ryan: Um, so he's, like, screaming,
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Ryan: covered in blood. Covered in blood. He's, uh. Yeah, they have to. Yeah, they have to raid his house. They. He's destroyed the. The place. Absolutely. Turned it upside down. Um, and he's, uh. Yeah, he's, uh.
Laura: We spoke in the Bronson episode about how he is maybe. And we should do this because we are scientists. Um, but he is maybe the most naked man.
Ryan: I'm not a scientist.
Laura: I'm a scientist.
Ryan: Oh, okay. I guess so.
Laura: I'm a scientist, but I also can use a stopwatch. But I do believe that he is the most naked man. I mean, this scene is extended. It is. It. Wow. I mean, you think about the scenes we've done in the past in intensity scales. Okay. You think about Bad Lieutenant. And, um. I'm trying to think of, like, some really intense ones right now. You can tell me later. But this is.
Ryan: I was gonna say Knight the demon.
Laura: Sure.
Ryan: Sure.
Laura: Why not? Yeah, yeah. Steward of life. Backwards. Bad lieutenant. Naya the demon.
Ryan: Night of the Demon.
Laura: Really intense penis scenes.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But, man, I mean, you just know this character, and you're seeing a part of him that Alexander's not actually seen before. Alexander's never seen him really, really break and really break down. And it's really upsetting and really sad just for him to see his friend tell the story where he's saying it's the. It was the anniversary of his brother's death. But you don't know what that means at that point either, because you don't know until the end of the film that his brother was the one abusing him as a child.
Ryan: Yes. Because you get hints because of Stuart's sister. Um, because you find out that the brother killed himself and took a certain amount of pills that ate away his internal organs and caused him extreme agony and pain. To the point where she's like, I'm glad he suffered like that without ever knowing exactly why she feels that way about her brother. Um, but then you do find out that she was also Abused by her brother as well. So.
Laura: Yeah. And she was saying how she feels like they're quite similar and she will be the nicest person in the world one second and then fly off the handle the next second.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it's just because of how they were brought up.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Or not how they were brought up maybe, necessarily, but more what happened in their youth.
Ryan: Yeah. Aye. It's, uh. Yeah, it's pretty messed up. It's pretty horrid.
Laura: It is horrible. You know, it is really horrible. And it is just really hard to see because this isn't. This is the only penis scene, but this isn't the only scene where you see Stuart absolutely losing it. And it's really rough.
Ryan: It is rough because when he tell.
Laura: He's telling the story and he's so calm and he just looks so remorseful.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And he doesn't want to tell these stories, which is where Norfolk comes back in, where Alexander is. Are we done? I don't want to jump back into what annoyed me about the Norfolk scene.
Ryan: Yeah, no, I think. I think. I think we covered it relatively quite well. But it's kind of. It's kind of like. Yeah, but it's also kind of like there's also another element of the Alexander story where it's kind of just like he's trying to get this information out of him. Because it's all about excising things from inside of Stuart in a way to help Stuart. Now, whether or not we. We believe that or not, that's kind of down to how we feel, like, tonally or morally, we feel like certain moments in the film are depicted. But I feel like that's kind of the intention and he's just, like, writing it down. Because that's as much as what it is, is that one way of being able to cope and deal with your problems is to, one, talk about them and two, and write them down and have them there on paper as well. So. Yeah. But, uh, either way.
Laura: Well, it's definitely after this particular incident where Alexander gets to hear this story of what happened and how he tried to cut off his neighbor's head with a bread knife.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And he said he would have done it too, if he hadn't moved. And you see the look on Alexander's face where he's having a drink at a pub with his friend after him not going to jail. And he's on probation.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And they're celebrating. And he's hearing his friend tell him how he would have murdered this guy if he had had. If he hadn't moved.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And you see his face actually kind of click into gear and going, oh, okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: This is, uh, I hate to say a dangerous man, but kind of a dangerous man that he is hanging around with and he is in very close
00:35:00
Laura: contact with, who can flip on a dime and who he trusts not to do that to him.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he's kind of realizing, oh, I'm dealing with an actual person with actual problems.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: And it's not just a story m. This is a real human being.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: And. And I. I think. Well, I thought this is where he kind of realized that he should be treating him with a little bit more care and not as much flippancy as he. I feel like he did. But then he did take him to Norfolk and he's pushing him to tell the story of the very first time he was arrested.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Which bothered me a lot because he goes, it's Thursday, Stuart. You told me you would tell me the story on a Thursday. And Stuart is just in this really sad, quiet voice going, please, Alexander, please don't make me tell the story. Because he's with his other friends. Yeah, he doesn't want to tell the story.
Ryan: Well. Really? Yeah. It, ah, really paints him out as like, uh, as a psycho, which is what he refers to him as when he first introduces himself to, uh, Alexander.
Laura: Yeah. So that part really bothered me. And he goes on to say how, oh, he only wanted to tell the story on a Thursday because that's when he get his dole money and he could buy heroin. So if he does tell the story, he can at least have heroin to make himself feel better. And he tells that to his friends.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Like, dude, chill.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: This is a private thing and you're bringing this man into your life, into these other people's lives. Like, be respectful.
Ryan: But I do think. I do think he regrets trying to get him to relive those moments, though, when he does actually tell them, because they're more horrific than. Than he could have imagined them being. So, you know, um, there is that, but I think, you know, what you end up with is a film that is a celebration of, you know, a man who faced great adversity. He had a lot of problems, and along the way he is. He is celebrated eventually. And it's. It's celebrated in such a small way that's. That's, uh, not only charming, but it's like it. It goes to show the amount m of people that were affected, you know, by him and his presence and stuff, which I think I think is actually quite. I think is actually quite nice, you.
Laura: Know, I totally agree. Yeah, It's. It's such a shame where. I don't know, you know, he dies. Like, that's the whole thing. Like, it starts off. Basically, it starts off that way with him passing away. But I was kind of reading up on Stuart, and I don't know the. The actual story of what happened, which is similar to what. How it happened in the film. M. But apparently he walked in front of a train, Right? Yeah, like, that's. That's the story. But there was an overall kind of lack of evidence that Stuart purposely walked in front of the train with the coroner's report stating that it was kind of contrary to how his body was positioned at the time of death. This is pretty dark. Sorry. But.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: But there are hints that suggest that Stuart might have intended to die. And I guess he had a long history of attempted suicides.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And his sister had mentioned in an interview once that Stuart had let her know that if he were to ever actually commit suicide, that he would make it look as if it was an accident because he felt like it was just too much to bear for his own mother to have two sons commit suicide. So he didn't, you know, even though the one son was, well, a piece of shit. Right.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: It would be too much.
Ryan: Yeah. No, I understand. I understand that it's, uh.
Laura: Yeah, it's just such a shame because it's like the. The Cambridge two get free and things are going really well and everything's on the up and up, and his sister got married and he, you know, he was able to go to her wedding, and then it's just. It was just his time, you know?
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: And it's a bummer.
Ryan: Yeah. That does not fill your heart with. Whatever. Isn't this such a lovely episode?
Laura: Well, I did think it was funny because I've seen this a few times. I knew what it was like. I paused it at one point because I was like, I need to finish this later. It's too much. It's all too much at once. And you started watching it, and I heard you laughing and laughing and laughing in the beginning of the movie because it is funny.
Ryan: There were some funny parts in it. Yeah.
Laura: But when I came out
00:40:00
Laura: and asked you about it, you go, this isn't a funny movie.
Ryan: No, it's very far from being funny. Yeah, it's not funny at all sometimes.
Laura: But I do like, you know, the animations mixed with, you know, the storytelling. It's very amusing. And him telling about his crimes with his friends. The menthol cigarettes and stuff. You guys have seen the film. It's very. It's very funny. Would you like to hear about the accolades and awards that this did not get? I'm sorry, it didn't win anything.
Ryan: It, uh, didn't win nothing.
Laura: Well, Tom Hardy was nominated for best actor.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: At the BAFTAs. Mhm. But he lost to Andrew Garfield in Boy A, which is also a very sad film.
Ryan: Boy, oh my.
Laura: This was a doc. Yeah. In 2007.
Ryan: Yeah. Dark. Yeah. All right, well, there you go. That's a shame. Let's move on.
Laura: Uh, uh, yeah. Do you have anything else to add?
Ryan: No, no. I feel like. I feel like we have. We have followed in the tone of the film and tried to make some things funny, but it's actually very difficult to make things like this funny. It's very difficult. It's a very.
Laura: Not everything has to be funny, and I think that's okay.
Ryan: Let's just be serious and dark.
Laura: We're a dark, serious podcast now.
Ryan: We are now. Yeah.
Laura: We don't need to cry. Yeah, you gotta cry sometimes. You know what? It's not been a good end of the year, so. We need to cry.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: We need more tears. We actually probably don't. We probably need things to lift us up instead.
Ryan: Yeah, probably need. Yeah, probably. Like. Because the next. This next month's gonna be rough, if that's what you're thinking. It's gonna be real rough.
Laura: Yeah, it actually is.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But I love the films we're doing next.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it's gonna be fine. They're wonderful films. So why dog just farted?
Ryan: Do you smell that?
Laura: I don't. You know, I have bad sinuses.
Ryan: Jesus fucking Christ.
Laura: I can't breathe through my nose. What?
Ryan: Almighty.
Laura: It's a blessing and a curse because I can't smell delicious things, but I also don't have to smell farts.
Ryan: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, that, uh, fart is not delicious in the baked bread.
Laura: I don't smell it.
Ryan: Oh, okay. Well, that's a shit.
Laura: I also don't smell a fart.
Ryan: Well, yeah, his farts don't smell like freshly baked bread.
Laura: I'm specifically not gonna breathe in through my nose. I can smell.
Ryan: I smell like meat.
Laura: We had a lot of treats today. He went to the vet and he's a healthy boy.
Ryan: It smells. Yeah, it does. It stinks of something unnatural.
Laura: But because he's a good boy, he gets extra cookies at the vet and then he farts up a storm. There you go.
Ryan: He does. He does.
Laura: Is that a lighter note for the end of this? Why don't you go, can we talk about our dog for the next 15 minutes?
Ryan: Maybe we could.
Laura: He's very handsome.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he's a good boy.
Ryan: And also, I'm also very hungry, so I'm also kind of just like. Yeah, uh, I'm ready to. Ready to get this.
Laura: I am going to go into my ratings. I'm going to start. Thank you very much. 5 stars for visibility and context. The scene, uh, where Tom Hardy is nude in this film is very raw and very upsetting and very sad and very dark and exciting because there's cops and knives and blood and screaming and fire and it's intense and it's helicopters. Helicopters. And there's wind and it's horrible. M. But good God, I mean, you just have a man screaming with knives taped to his hands and he's just. Just screaming. He's just screaming and God damn. Um, like, what the fuck is happening?
Ryan: It's very visceral.
Laura: It is. It's a lot more probably great to do as an actor to just standing there and just start screaming. Probably feels awesome.
Ryan: Yeah, potentially. But like, if we compare it to say, like a bad lieutenant or something, like, it's kind of.
Laura: He's just crying.
Ryan: It's just less than. Yeah, it's just slightly. Slightly. I wouldn't say, like, less intensity, but the action itself is a little bit more.
Laura: It is less intense because he's just like. You're just like, oh, that's sad.
Ryan: That's like. Yeah, that's really sad.
Laura: This one is. This is sad. But good Lord.
Ryan: Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.
Laura: Yeah, it's wildly intense, but, yeah, I'm.
Ryan: Kind of on the fence. I'm like, is it a, uh, four, four and a half or something like that? And I'm finding it hard to justify anything but a five. So I'll just probably agree with you on that one.
Laura: I mean, if you want to split up, visibility would obviously be a five. Context. I don't know. I think context is a five, too.
Ryan: Yeah, but we've had this argument before where we've been like, you
00:45:00
Ryan: know, because then you start questioning the meaning of the word context. And it's kind of like, well, that this is within the. Within the context of this story. This makes sense.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: You know, so it's kind of.
Laura: It's not just a pushed in, random bit of nudity. And it's also one of my favorite types. No, where this is not. Has nothing to do with sex. Sexuality has nothing to do with. With anything like that. Like, this is. Out with that. Like, it's. It's. It's not you. It's like you. You don't want to see. Ah.
Ryan: It.
Laura: You're like, oh, my God, this is. This is horrible.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And really upsetting and raw. So, like, I kind of like that for that reason.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Jesus Christ. This guy's having a moment.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, that's the very least you can say is not.
Laura: It's not fun, like buttering yourself up and beating up some prison guards. Yeah, it's not fun like that.
Ryan: No. There's no aspect of this that's fun. Like, I mean, we kind of have to just put it out there.
Laura: But look at. I mean, look at Tom Hardy. Look at Tom Hardy from this. Literally. Bronson is the next year. There is a little Tom Hardy here who's pouring out his soul. And then you've got Tom Hardy playing Charles Bronson in the next film. That is wild. Give him an award and give him the sun and stars. He's such a good boy. Okay. Sorry. Would you like to read the film? Yeah.
Ryan: What do you think you would give the film?
Laura: Four.
Ryan: Four. I gave it four and a half because I liked it slightly more than you did.
Laura: I probably. I mean, I can be on that same page. I just. It's just so sad.
Ryan: It's very sad. But it's a great movie.
Laura: It's a great film.
Ryan: It is good. There are certain actors we've not really spoken about, like, how the film looks.
Laura: Or it looks like a TV film.
Ryan: How it's put together yet. The film itself, like, the way it looks, it's relatively quite unremarkable. But I don't. I, uh. Don't. We watched it on hbo and we had it in the highest quality possible that you could get. I don't think the film is particularly easy to access either. We're lucky that it's on hbo.
Laura: Yeah, it was bought by HBO for, uh. It's the. The TV film was bought by them. So, yeah, it's. It's been on HBO forever.
Ryan: Yeah. So that's probably where it's going to stay.
Laura: Expensive.
Ryan: Uh, it is expensive, but then it's kind of just like. You don't. Like. I wouldn't probably want to see the DVD version because it would just look worse. And that's not to say the film looks like, terrible, but it just. It doesn't. It. It tells the story, and that's Kind of really. It. Ah. There's nothing really particularly remarkable about the film making here. It's kind of more that it's like a, uh, quite astute. Just very intricate, like character study based on a true story. So really it doesn't need any of the flash or the bang to tell this story because there's enough. There's enough that's been supported by the cast that you don't really need to faff around with it too much.
Laura: Yeah, you've got a great character study, a great character story. Like, I don't know if I need to see the Nicholas Winding Refen version of Stewart of life backwards.
Ryan: No, you do know.
Laura: I'm happy with this. This works. And it's, you know, our young boys, our young Hardy and our young Cumberbatch, and they're really killing it. I mean. Yeah, sorry. If you're working in a movie opposite Tom Hardy, you're not gonna look as good. And Cumberbatch is. No, Cumberbatch is great, but he's good. Tom Hardy got the best. The best of it.
Ryan: He did. But they're a good. They're a good double act, though, in this. And I think Cumberbatch is actually very good in the film.
Laura: He is great. I'm sorry.
Ryan: Yo. So.
Laura: And they also became really nice friends during this film.
Ryan: Well, that's nice.
Laura: I know. You know. You know what? I love a friendship story.
Ryan: A good old friendship story.
Laura: I absolutely love a friendship.
Ryan: A behind the camera friendship story.
Laura: A behind and in front of the camera friend's story about friendship and love. And it's wonderful.
Ryan: Wow. Let's end on that note because it's nice.
Laura: Best friends forever. And they got to work with each other again in other films. And it's just so nice.
Ryan: Oh, it's nice.
Laura: Friends forever.
Ryan: So nice.
Laura: Wow. So happy to do Tom's giving. I hope we get to do more Tom's givings. I don't think there are any more Toms.
Ryan: Oh, that's not very nice.
Laura: But there might. There might be.
Ryan: Oh, okay, good. End it on a nice note.
Laura: Happy Tom's giving everyone. I hope that you watch both of these films back to back with your family and you guys will be closer and more best
00:50:00
Laura: friends than ever. And coming to you from the Cock Tavern
Ryan: run yourself a bath of gravy.
Laura: Oh, my gosh. A bath. Uh, yourself in gravy.
Ryan: Tis the season for the gravy.
Laura: Absolutely. Gravy. Turn it off. Oh, I've been Laura and I've been Ryan. Yeah.
Ryan: Now I'm going to switch this off.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: It's been nice.
Laura: It has.
Ryan: Nice.
00:50:32