Felt like watching people punch with their feet, hence, we're covering Riley Stearns' 2019 black comedy THE ART OF SELF-DEFENSE
If there's anything you're bound to enjoy, it's a good fight movie! This doesn't have "FIGHT" in the title, but adopts the more measured and assured term "SELF-DEFENSE". Fighting shouldn't be encouraged or promoted, but looking after yourself should, respectfully.
That brings us to Riley Stearns' 2019 black comedy THE ART OF SELF-DEFENSE, which follows a "weak" man who gets beaten up, decides to learn to fight, and discovers his inner manliness.
As dystopian as this world is presented, I do appreciate the idea of just being able to buy something that is generically named "DOG FOOD" to eliminate the time wasted in having to think about my choices.
Before I bore you with how complicated my life is buying dog food, enjoy this film review.
Sensei Shenanigans: Dissecting Masculinity in The Art of Self-Defense
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE, the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. Uh, my name is Laura and I'm joined by my sensei, Ryan.
Ryan: Hello.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Hi.
Laura: We are here to talk about the 2019 martial arts black comedy film the Art of Self Defense, directed by Riley Stearns, starring Jesse Eisenberg, Alessandro Nvola and Imogen Pootss.
Ryan: Thats right. I am your sensei. How much do you think youve learned from me?
Laura: Not nearly enough.
Ryan: That was a good answer. Yeah, thats a really good answer because I was basically on my way to being told that I'm a nothing entity.
Laura: Oh. By whom?
Ryan: By my wife.
Laura: Oh, no.
Ryan: Yeah, you'about to say you were gonna say something.
Laura: I did a ro switcheroo on you.
Ryan: You did. And now, um, I'm a little confused.
Laura: So you're gonna have to work within yourself. I shall look within.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: As Casey does in this movie.
Ryan: Call for help.
Laura: Okay, so the synopsis that I pulled from letterboxed is Casey is attacked at random on the street and enlists in a local dojo led by a charismatic and mysterious sensei in an effort to learn how to defend himself. What he uncovers is a sinister world of fraternity violence and hypermasculinity and a woman fighting for her place in it.
Ryan: So I'm gonna get this out of the way first. Do you smell that?
Laura: What is it?
Ryan: It's the stench. Is something imitating something else? That's what it is. Uh, uh, this film I'm getting out of the way is the. This film reminds me a lot of Fight Club.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: It does a lot of Fight Club things in it. And yeah, kind of removed a lot of the enjoyment for me by making those pretty distinct sort of comparisons that I wasn't kind of really a massive fan of.
Laura: Um, is someone not allowed to write a film about masculinity in a time 20 years after fight Club came out? Especially during what it was written during a really definitive part of the Hash Met too movement and trying to discover what masculinity and what maleness is in a world where maleness and masculinity is vilified.
Ryan: I mean, if that's the story you're writing, that's okay. But I mean, maybe hide the fact that you've seen Fight Club and then you start copying scenes and stuff that's from that movie.
Laura: What, what scenes are copied?
Ryan: Then there's that bit where Imogen put beats the shit out of that person because he thinks they're better. And, um, that scenes taken straight out of Fight Club.
Laura: Well, he earned his black belt when she clearly deserved it more. But she didn't get her black belt because she is a woman and she was jealous.
Ryan: So she beat the fuck out of him.
Laura: She needed to prove that she was stronger and better, which is a different reason than what happened in Fight Club. He wanted to destroy something beautiful. She wanted to prove her worth.
Ryan: I mean, the minute it goes to night class, it's like, okay, this is a little bit like Fight Club. And then also he's like, oh, I'm go goingna change my personality and do certain things. It felt, it felt exactly the same. Like, to me, it felt the same. Felt very similar. And I think anyone who's out there saying, no, that's, no, that's not the case. I'm like, I'm, um, like, come on, stop lying to yourself.
Laura: Riley Stearns said that Fight Club did not enter his mind at all while writing this script. And I will give you his reasons for writing this.
Ryan: It was very convenient though, wasn't it? Of course, if you get a first person quote from the guy who's like, who wrote it and directed it, he's not goingna say like, Fight Club entered my mind maybe once. You know what I mean? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Laura: Well, before I dive into his origins of this, of this story. Because he wrote this story.
Ryan: He did, Yeah.
Laura: I would like you to tell us about this director who was almost our same age.
Ryan: Yeah. Um, Riley Stearns, American filmmaker. He's directed three feature films. Um, he did, uh, faults in 2014, the art self defense in 2019 and duel in 2022. That's not dueual as in like the truck or the, you know, fighting to the duel. That's dual as in two. Two. Um, because I know how much I mumble. Um, a short film cut up from 2013. It was, uh, his first film to screen at Sundance.
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Ryan: Um, Sterns is a black belt in Brazilian J Jitsu and he won the bronze medal at the 2022, um, ADCC open in the 70kg Master S Pro division.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: And yes, um, he was married to Mary Elizabeth Winstead for a spell. Um, she was in a couple of these shorts and her. His first feature film. Um, but yeah, uh, they met on a cruise as well, I thought was a, that was a lovely addition in the Wikipedia, which was weird that they met specifically on a cruise. Um, but they're divorced now. But, uh, yeah, he did shorts. 2011 Magnificat. Ah, cask in 2012 cub, obviously I mentioned in 2013. And um, I felt like I've been following him as a filmmaker since the early days of the other social medias. So this is. This kind of came on my radar. But, uh, yes, we are all of similar ages. You know, some people do, while others just don't.
Laura: Wow. Okay.
Ryan: There you go.
Laura: Cool. You took away so much of what I wanted to say, so I'm gonna just add on. You went beyond your typical role.
Ryan: I. Yeah, but the info is very slim. So basically anything I would have said would have been here's his films and he does a bit of Brazilian Ju Jitsu. That's basically what it would have been.
Laura: This film was conceived and uh, produced at a tumultuous time, I would say, in their relationship because Mary Elizabeth Winstead was meant to play the part of Anna in this film.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: And that was announced in 2016 and they got divorced in 2017.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: So obviously she wasn't going to be in the motion picture. Apparently it was a very amicable breakup and they're still the best of friends.
Ryan: I mean, that's the way it should be. Um, but who knows? Who knows what happened there? Who knows what she did?
Laura: Well, we know that she married you.
Ryan: In McGregor and that's perfectly good. So that's fine.
Laura: Um, I also like the story about the Carnival cruise. She is older than Riley Stearns. She met him on a Carnival cruise when she was 18 and he was 16 years old. And she almost didn't go because she was offered a supporting role in a Cinderella story, that hilarary Duff movie. But she decided to go on the cruise with her friend anyway because she'd been planning it for so long.
Ryan: I mean, nothing beats a good cruise.
Laura: Carnival cruises are actual. Oh, maybe I shouldn't talk crap about Carnival. They're crap.
Ryan: O.
Laura: In my opinion.
Ryan: I thought it was like a carnival. Like it was on like a carnival on the sea.
Laura: That's actually worse. O. Um, that would actually be worse.
Ryan: I mean like be like pirates and shit. Be that kind of clowns. Washbuckley. Yeah. You want a pirate clown? Pirate clowns would be awesome. Um, okay, no. So Carnival is just the company and they do shit cruises is what you said.
Laura: It's just my opinion as a person without children.
Ryan: Well, we're a podcast without sponsors, so, you know, obviously I don't know what Carnivals capability of doing.
Laura: I would rather be, uh, given money by Royal Caribbean or Virgin.
Ryan: Right. I think we're really like, you're really starting to show your golden Feathers.
Laura: The thing is, Carnival is for family.
Ryan: Middle class.
Laura: Uh, and I'm sure that it's great for people who have families, but for someone like me.
Ryan: She was also 18 as well. It'probably all she could afford.
Laura: I'm just saying for my own personal experience. Well, no, she wasn't paying for it. She went with her friend and her friend's grandmother on the cruise. And Riley Stearns with his friends family as well.
Ryan: Wow, look at this. So they were match made in heaven. Going on shitty cruises with your family?
Laura: Yeah. With your friends, family. No, it just. It's a cruise line for families, that's all. There'a lot of kids around.
Ryan: Ye.
Laura: And that's not my jam.
Ryan: Yeah. Let's move on from the cruise.
Laura: Stearns originally wanted someone in their 40s to play Casey because he thought it would be funny that a man that age was having trouble kind of figuring out who he was and his masculinity and was scared all the time.
Ryan: Riley. Riley, you don't know. But mean, he probably knows now. He was interviewed back then.
Laura: I'm not done.
Ryan: That never changes.
Laura: Jesse Heisenberg's name came up a couple of times, but Sterns didn't think he was the right age. But then realized that a lot of men that age have that issue where they
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Laura: don't feel like aot man or comfortable in their own skin because that is human existence.
Ryan: Okay, well, I jumped the gun.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: Yeah, I jumped the gun a little bit. Um, yeah. No, because you're a mess up until the day you die.
Laura: Yeah. Adulthood means nothing.
Ryan: It means nothing.
Laura: You Ye.
Ryan: It gets harder and harder. And the only thing is that as you get older, your brain starts to, like, help you by, like, making you, like, forget stuff. It's great. I love it. And like, slowing you down and making you basically start. As you get older, you start to lose your morality.
Laura: Oh, shit.
Ryan: Yeah. So, like that thing you wouldn't have said in your 20s, you're kind of braver to say in your 40s and 50s.
Laura: Well, I think that comment really lends itself to the script itself because everyone is everyone except for Anna, the only female character. Everyone is black and white. Everyone says exactly what they're thinking without any consequences or consequences.
Ryan: I guess I refer to the style of writing in this movie is like, very matter of factly, yes. Like, it's very straightforward and it's kind of like a weird tone thing because I don't think the rest of his films are written like that. At least Faults definitely isn't written like that corre. Um, so yeah, kind of. It kind of like the way the dialogue is. It kind of makes it feel a little dystopian.
Laura: Yeah, no, I agree. He said that he wanted to make his film like this one in particular. As though it was like an inch off the ground where it's slightly heightened but grounded. So there's like a. Consider it like an inch of space between your feet and the ground. Like that weird liminal space in between where you can kind of like grasp what's going on, but it's slightly off.
Ryan: It's like float in Final Fantasy vii.
Laura: Sure.
Ryan: Yeah. Or in the Final Fantasy games in general. You know that. That was in six and stuff as well.
Laura: Oh yes.
Ryan: You use float to avoid, um, any earthquakes troubleeah. Like Earth attacks.
Laura: So Riley Sten is implementing the Final Fantasy float in order to uh, create this interesting space in which. Yeah, we live in this film.
Ryan: We're so big nerds. Y massive nerds.
Laura: Well, that's also because he didn't want the movie to be kind of pigeonholed into an era or a time. Right. So you're not having someone with like a particular iPhone so you can date the movie?
Ryan: Yeah, no, I would get it ye the iPhone. Like how long has the iPhone been in existence? Like more than 20 years or something at this point. Oh, ah, at least.
Laura: Least.
Ryan: Yeah. So that's a whole 20 year span that you cant figure. You know what.
Laura: And they change so often so that you really could pinpoint exactly the year that a film is just by looking at someones cell phone.
Ryan: I guess so, yeah. Because that's the thing. If it'an iPhone youe re just kind of like they've just duped a bunch of consumers into getting the same phone over and over and over again. Because it's never changed the design like ever. So it's always been the same thing.
Laura: Well, there goes our sponsorship from Apple. Great.
Ryan: I doubt that would ever happen. I doubt that'ever happen.
Laura: Well, the computer monitors are crt. You don't see a cell phone anywhere. Everything's just kind of uh, an interesting. There's a lot of wood grain in.
Ryan: The dojo which doesn't really necessarily pinpoint a time frme either.
Laura: Exactly.
Ryan: Because our house is full of wood.
Laura: Exactly.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But I think that's an interesting way of doing things. So you can't pinpoint and you know, everything's quite generic. You know, the dog food he buys for the dog says dog food.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And the karate dojo is called Karate. The dog doesn't even have a name.
Ryan: No, he doesn't. That's why it's, um. That's why you don't feel so much for the dog.
Laura: I do feel for that dog.
Ryan: That dog is adorable dog.
Laura: Like the tiniest little d. Yeah.
Ryan: Little doshun.
Laura: What a little sweetheart. So anyway, I think that I might have skipped over the fact that they obviously cast Jesse Eisenberg in this film, because he seemed to really kind of grasp the concept once they kind of realized what they were going for and how his sensibilities could really lean into that character.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: And they shot the film over 25 days in Kentucky.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Yeah. Um, Imogen Putz and Jesse Eisenberg trained together before production started, and they had quite a bit of time to do so. But Alessandro apparently only had a couple of days to practice with their stunt coordinator before, um, before they shot the film, just due to scheduling issues. But he has to do the most work.
Ryan: I mean, he
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Ryan: has to do the most karate game in. He's been in some action movies. He knows what'up.
Laura: Yeah. Apparently he's incredibly fit and he keeps in shape, and so he really grasped that very well.
Ryan: Yeah, that's, um. Yeah, he was in Face Off. He's the weird brother.
Laura: Uh, yeah. He's one of those guys that really, really blends into his roles. You know's.
Ryan: Can he really blends into the background? No.
Laura: No, he doesn't. He's always excellent in everything he's in. But I think that's. Thats because hes so good that hes just. You kind of forget who he is. Hes just a character.
Ryan: Okay. All right.
Laura: Guess Jesse Eisenberg doesnt do that. Do you know what Im saying? Jesse Eisenberg is Jesse Eisenberg.
Ryan: Hes just playing Jesse Eisenberg. Its like whenever Seth Rogens in a movie. Seth Rogen'just playing Seth Rogen most of the time.
Laura: There'times where maybe its'slightly different.
Ryan: Like, when was Seth Rogen.
Laura: Zach Mary made a porno.
Ryan: That was because everything was. Was bad in that movie. Uh, that's not a good.
Laura: He was bad.
Ryan: You mean like he in a serious role? Like Seth Rogan in a serious role? You don't recognize that Seth Rogen. Once you see Seth Rogen, he's unmistakable.
Laura: Not as obvious as Jesse Eisenberg getting.
Ryan: Rogan as it was. Because that's what I called this. This. I get Eisenberg.
Laura: I'm not mad about getting Iiseberg. I like him.
Ryan: Yeah, he's good. Like, he doesn't like, between this movie and, like, playing Mark Zuckerberg, like, he's basically nobody. Like, he is Eisenberg. Like, that's it. He doesn't. Yeah, there's. No, there's not. Let's just say his range is his Eisenbergness. Really?
Laura: Yeah, it works.
Ryan: Y.
Laura: It works for this movie. Okay, so now Im going to tell you about why Rilely Steternns made this movie. He said that Casey is a caricature of himself. He found himself thinking one day what would happen if I were attacked? Could I protect myself or my loved ones? He also talked about his insecurities about fitting in with other men. So he started looking into martial arts and Jiu Jitsu. He used to watch mma, and he just started doing jiu jitsu for several years. And then, as you said already, he, uh, became a black belt and won medals in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So he wanted to make a film that incorporated that world, but then needed to figure out how to do it. So then that's how it became this.
Ryan: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. No, I mean, that's. That's fine. When did he start Ji jitsu? Did it say?
Laura: Uh, it was about. I think it was six years before he, um, made the film.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Like that?
Ryan: Well, yeah, know, I think art. My time is over, um, for learning a martial art.
Laura: Oh, I don't think so.
Ryan: Well, no, I was looking at the dates and stuff, and, like, that's at least six years ago at this point. And then. So that was 12 years ago when he started.
Laura: So, you know, you can do it any time. I didn't do Jiu Jitsu because I worried about the wrestling portion being on the floor and getting into leg locks and stuff. That made me nervous. Like, the grappling portion of jujitsu made me nervous.
Ryan: You want to be grabbed and touched. You just wanted punch.
Laura: I did Muay Thai.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: So that is less. You don't really grapple like that.
Ryan: No, you just kick. Kick things until they dead, basically, is what muai is.
Laura: It is great. Its really fun to punch stuff, but. Yeah, Id always wondered what it was like to get punched in the face, and now I know. Yeah, its not good for people with contact lenses. Like, if you punch someone in the face with contact lenses, theyre going to lose their contact, and then theyre blind. So then you have an advantage.
Ryan: Yeah. And then you just. Again, you just kick themill. They die, basically.
Laura: Mutai or until they're incapacitated, and then you run away. Which is what I would do.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Oh, I'LL never forget when someone didn't believe that I knew how to throw a punch. And so I did like a nice right hook into someone's arm and it left a bruise so big on their arm. It was there for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And he was so embarrassed to admit that I genuinely hurt him. He'like don't pull the punch, do it good.
Ryan: Maybe this guy needs to go and get himself into a karate gym and.
Laura: Learn how to be a man emasculated by a woman.
Ryan: Yeah, exactly. So you can just throw down, get his belt on and just start. Yeah, start fucking things up, you know?
Laura: I see now that her being a woman will prevent her from ever becoming a man. That was one
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Laura: of my favorite lines from this movie.
Ryan: Yeah, um, um, it's, it's an odd, it's an odd thing. It's an odd movie. Like it has, it does have. It, it does have its moments. I think it's. There is a collection of interesting things and it did make me, it did make me chuckle a couple of times. But I think the minute I start using like the words chuckle and like couple of times and all the rest of that.
Laura: Um, but you know, this isn't one of those movies, you know, that it's a dry, dark comedy. You're not goingna be bowled over.
Ryan: Well, I think what I mean is, like, it just wasn't really getting me on a few levels.
Laura: It didn't get you off.
Ryan: It's fine just as a product. But I didn'I. Didn't find it like, I didn't find it super interesting. And I think my review will kind of matched that.
Laura: I texted you about this because I watched m. We watched the movie separately. I'd seen this movie before, uh, several years ago, and well, you text me.
Ryan: Saying that this seems to be funnier than I remember.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Which probably tainted my feelings on it. Um, no, becausee it plays the comedy pretty hard, I think. I think it definitely plays its comedy like the world is pretty comedic because of how, um, how dry and matter of fact it is. Um, I think it really does play into its comedy a fair amount. And obviously there's, there's horrific elements. That's what makes it a black comedy. Um, but it's. Yeah, I think just maybe the overall, like to me, just the overall. I mean, I just kept on reminding me of Fight Club and I don't know why he has to defend himself if it didn't seem to be like an apparent fact. Why would there be a quote from him Saying, well, I. Fight Club never entered my mind. He's obviously being asked the question because it reminds folk of fucking Fight Club.
Laura: It was in a Reddit ama and someone said something, oh, I noticed there was some elements that reminded me of Fight Club and, you know. Or did you base the character of the Sensei off of, like, a Tyler Durden? And he was. I honestly didn't, uh. That didn't come into my mind when I wrote it, which makes sense, considering the origins of why he wrote it in the first place, why Fight Club wouldn't come into it. And he's also very adamant that he only writes a first draft of a story. And that's the draft. That's the story. It doesn't go through a thousand rewrites. What he wrote is what they shot. Maybe, uh. I't, uh, know, I'llbeit a different, I don't know, maybe some, you know, I don't know, lines of dialogue.
Ryan: I don't know. I'm not. It's gonna be the last time I bring it up. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's. There's something smelly, something stinky that doesn't bother me.
Laura: If something reminds you of, uh, Fight Club.
Ryan: Yeah, but it's like it almost hangs its hooks on it just a little too much. And if it's doing it unconsciously, that's. That's crazy because that kind of means to me that, like, he found this framework of a story and he's, like, unconscious of it, but it's obvious that he was conscious of it. It's kind of. It's strange, or it's like this story framework was like, can only work this one way, which is unfortunately, you know, makes it feel very similar to something else. I don't know. I don't know. But like, again, it's the last time I'm goingna bring it up. That's all. Because, again, the film does do some things that are interesting. Like I said, the dialogue is interesting. They refer to France as weak and they surrender easy. I think that's a fantastic line of dialogue.
Laura: I, too, like Casey in this film, am afraid of men. And I'm learning French.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: I found a lot of similarities.
Ryan: I like the opening to the movie where it's obviously like, uh, he knows French enough to be, you know, be. Be insulted by the French speakers as, like, um, a masturbating loner, you know, Which, I mean, they weren't wrong, but, like, it's u. Um, yeah. Like there'there is some interesting stuff in it. I just. It's like. Yeah, I just wasn't like, super, super interested.
Laura: Save that for your review. All right.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: S. Not. I do love the fact that I watched this. Years ago, I gave it a one star on Letterbox. I, like, hated it. I don't remember exactly why, but I hated it. And just watching it again, I don't know, there's something about time and place setting, uh, what I ate that day, like the company I'm with. How hydrated am I, like, if I'm going to like a movie or not. It's so interesting to me that I hated it. And now I watch it and I go, huh, huh. It's just interesting that you can watch something at a different time and place
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Laura: and really enjoy it.
Ryan: Yeah, no, because I watched it. I watched it at work, or I watched the majority of it at work. And I was. I was like. I did. I was interested to see how it ended. Um, because, um, on. On Letterbox, that was kind of like, the ending was almost sort of spoiled for me a little bit. And, um. And like, obviously everything in the writing, this secular nature of the writing and like the lore and the history of this dojo and stuff like that started to come into, you know, started to obviously come into, uh, into focus, which I thought was. I thought was quite interesting. You know, um, it's like they didn't learn that technique. He just shot somedy in the head and then put his finger in there.
Laura: Amazing.
Ryan: Like, I thought that was pretty funny. Like, I thought that was very. I thought that was very good.
Laura: Um, yeah, I agree.
Ryan: But then there's other things. Like, you know, he snaps Henry's arm. Henry's one or the other. And, um, frequenters of the dojo. He's a blue bell. And he like, showed up to the night class. Because you're not meant to show up to the night class without some sign of like, you know, an invitation.
Laura: Basically, you need a black stripe on your belt.
Ryan: Yes. And you have to be. You have to be, uh, you have to be invited. Um, but yeah, he ends up going there. And then obviously, predictably, because sensei is asking all the right questions, you know, Seni snaps Henry's arm in half. And that was. That was pretty interesting. What happened to Henry, though, because I. This is a question I had when he. When Jesse Eisenberg, when Casey is like. He's like going around in the halls and he sees that room and there's the guy with the. With the arm cast on, is that Henry. But what's up with him?
Laura: What do you mean?
Ryan: Well, he's just standing there. So what is he doing?
Laura: I don't remember that in particular. I do remember seeing him cast it up. I don't know. He's just.
Ryan: Was he in a class or was he doing something? He's like, in the foreground, so you only see the cast and, like, part of his body. And then Casey sees it and then has to turn away because he doesn't like what he's seeing. Like, I don't understand what happened there. That's just something that, uh. I just came to my mind anyway. But, yes, it was in my notes, but yes, either way. Okay, I'm sorry.
Laura: Yeah, no, that's. That's cool.
Ryan: I'm confused'confused.
Laura: So, as they did have stunt coordinators and they had stunt people to help them, obviously, with all of the karate and the Ji Jitsu they were doing. Imogen puts did most of her own stunts. So they tried it, uh, with their stunt person, and it was fine. But then Imogen was like. It's not like she was pushing to do them herself, but when she did do them, it looked better. So she ended up doing most of the ones on camera, except for just one particular one during the fight with Thomas, where she had to do kind of like a leg lock move. Hold.
Ryan: No shit. Was, um. Yeah, because, like, complicated slithery movement that she had to make.
Laura: Right. So that apparently was the only sl. The only move or stunt that she wasn't able to do in. In the film.
Ryan: Okay, well, I mean, that makes sense. It does make sense. And yeah, Nouse. I mean, I think the fight. I mean, the fight. Whatever you want to say about the fighting. But the stuff that you do see, that's meant to be like, proper fighting. Yes, yes. That stuff's actually pretty decent. I mean, seeing Jesse Eisenberg flail around in slow motion is not exactly. I like that sequence, but it's not exactly my idea of a good time.
Laura: Now, there's a couple things I want to talk about before, like, the porn on the computer, the Mail magazine and the man magazine.
Ryan: Yeah, man magazine.
Laura: I loved that. Man magazine was just guns and guns and tits.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Awesome.
Ryan: And then obviously, when he starts to act little like a hard man, like, he's full of masculine energy. It's just on his. When he's in the office at work, just on his screen, it's just a jpeg of tits.
Laura: Yeah. And he starts learning German because it's a hard language, not the feminine French?
Ryan: Yep.
Laura: Uh, that's so good. He has to listen to hard metal. What was the music he listened to when he asked him? It was adult contemporary. What even is that?
Ryan: Yeah, I think it was adult contemporary, and I don't know what that means. I donither either, because, um. Yeah, no, like, it should be metal.
Laura: Is Bruno Mars adult tougest music there is?
Ryan: Is that Bruno Mars t like contemporary? He's like, it. Well, it's like. I mean, I just label that stuff as, like, pesh. If it's, like, contemporary, it's probably just pop. Yeah. He.
Laura: Oh, my God. Is itult contemporary yacht rock? Oh, no, I'm not sure.
Ryan: I mean, that'that's full of masculine energy.
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Ryan: Yacht rock, it's mostly listened by men because it repulses women.
Laura: Yacht rock, Carol King, KT Stepvens, James Taylor, Bread, Toto. Oh, no, I love toto. Air Supply, Fleetwood Mac, M this del contemporary.
Ryan: Oh, slightly that's what they would refer to as weak music.
Laura: Oh, God.
Ryan: Yeah. Weak.
Laura: I don't feel weak. I feel like a real man.
Ryan: Yeah, just stick on some King diamond or some. Like, some Nile or something.
Laura: My gosh. Now it's like boys to men.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Savage Garden.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Enrique Iglesias, Phil Collins.
Ryan: Oh, God, that. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to become, um, the masculine man I really should be at this age.
Laura: Phil Collins is great. All right, well, you know what? If that's adult contemporary, then sign me up. Sign me the fuck up. Let's talk about this penis scene.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: It's so weird. Okay. And I've got problems with it. So this is.
Ryan: We. Yeah, we do have problems with it.
Laura: Uh, 57 minutes and three seconds into this motion picture.
Ryan: Almost pretty much halfway.
Laura: It's a little.
Ryan: It's like what, an houry a.m. hour 45. So it's just a tiny amount over, like five minutes over it or something before it's like halfway. It's like 142 or something.
Laura: Oh, it's 104 minutes.
Ryan: Yeah. Hour are 42 or something.
Laura: Not bad.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Um.
Ryan: Um, anyway, um. U. Yeah, they do the cooldown after, so Imagenots. Yes.
Laura: Night class, Right?
Ryan: Yeah. This is where the. Yeah, this is where the, um, the fight club starts to get a little bit too apparent for me. So anyway, they. This is the night class, and we've had all that. And then puts is fighting with her. The person who denied her her black bell, I think, purely based on the fact that he's a man.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: And so she fights him in a duel. Not a duel. A duel, as in a fighting duel. And fucking beat stuff fuck out of him. Um, and the fight clubby thing about it is when she starts just like punching his face until there's nothing recognizable there. Like, that's the thing where I'm just like, that's kind of fight club. And if you ever do, that's fight club. And like, the reasoning behind it felt very similar anyway. And, um, they are fighting and sensei comes out and he's just like, all right, I think we've. I think we've had enough. I think we've had enough for tonight. And he's like. He initiates what they refer to as the coolown. Yeah.
Laura: Oh, uh, this could have been. It's basically absolutely perfect.
Ryan: It's the warm down. That's what it is. So they're like massaging themselves and doing whatever.
Laura: That's a cool down.
Ryan: Is that what you call that? A coolown?
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Was it a cool down or a war? It's a warm up and a cool day.
Laura: Correct. You're warming your body up and then you're bringing the temt back down your heart rate. A warm down, A rub down is maybe.
Ryan: Yeah, right. I think it's rubbed down. Yeah. I fucked up. Anyway, um. Yeah. So these start. They initiate the cooldown.
Laura: Um, where. So you have Casey standing there. They were all standing in a line.
Ryan: He's in the background and he's not 100% sure obviously what the cooldown is.
Laura: Yeah. Are no instructions. You know, it's trial by fire. And the other members of the night class. Unle nightclub. The night class.
Ryan: You don't say.
Laura: They start taking off their. What's it called? Is it called a GE or is that your belt?
Ryan: I think it's the gh. Yeah, it's the gh. I don't. Well, maybe that's the ghee. I used to know this. I play street fire all the time. Right, hold on.
Laura: We'nna find so you can find out. So they start to undress. And there's three main guys that you can see undressing. And everyone gets to the part where they have underwear on. Two of the guys keep their underwear on that are at least in the frame for what I remember. And the, uh, one guy, one guy out of the whole class takes off his underwear. Only one. And it's very strange to me because it would have been absolutely perfect and shocking, of course, to the character of Casey if all of these men got fully nude and started massaging each other.
Ryan: So we'll put a pin in it there because you are right. We are right. It is the gi.
Laura: Thank you.
Ryan: The is the overall because the belt'called the obi. Uh, and then there's obviously other parts where they separate like the. From the jacket to the pants and stuff like that. So it's all completely different. But anyway, yes, it is the ghee. Because it's the karate ghee.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Is what it is. So they just refer to it as the gi. But yes, there you go. Continue onwards.
Laura: Wonderful. So it's just the fact that you have one man out of the whole night class that gets fully naked
00:35:00
Laura: to do the coolown whilst all the other men are just wearing their underwear.
Ryan: Which is odd.
Laura: Yeah, it is.
Ryan: Because the thing that would make it better because that's the thing. Like otherwise, if they are. If they'here's. The thing. It has to be like, has to be all of one or all of the other. Now if it was all the other, we wouldn't be talking about it at all. But, um, it's like if they're all just standing there in their underwear, that's not as weird, is it? Is what happens here. Because really for it to be like the best. It could be like all of them have to get naked and it's like they'all like. They've all been told by the sense that it's like, no, no, no, you can't be wearing any clothes during the coold down. Which is I think these folk could believe. So they just get naked for obviously no apparent reason whatsoever. Um, but yeah, just the one guy in the middle of frame because I'm waiting for the R. Because that's the thing. Only had to be those two that are in frame that just have to do it. But yeah, he takes off his pants. It's all the wide shots. You see it really clearly. And obviously then the guy behind him doesn't take his pants off.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: It doesn't make any fucking sick because I was waiting for it to happen. I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be amazing. And you're just like. You're more perplexed by it doesn't make any sense to me.
Laura: I fully agree. I couldn't find anything in my research as to why, like there was no. I haven't found any dialogue about that. Which is maybe why I should have sent a message to the director myself. Which is.
Ryan: It's weird because like you could get away with. When you go to the wide shot, they're just all weiting and like fleshy colored, like um, like cover ups or something. So it's like you wouldn't have to see the dicks and stuff from a distance. Like I don't know how expensive that would have been to do. But it's just the fk in that frame are the ones that have to do it. So you assume everyone's doing it.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Like that's it.
Laura: Yeah. In the wide you definitely could have covered it up just with a body position.
Ryan: Yeah. Or get easily get some somethingy else in the frame who's like, yah know, I'll take my dick out. I do that. Like instead of it just being this one guy who then at that point.
Laura: I sounds like a weirdo.
Ryan: Well yeah. Then I started coming up with lore for who this person is. He's just like. They just call him Slimy Tony or something. Yey. And he does that. He does that every cooldown and they're just like, oh.
Laura: And like I've got a massage Tony.
Ryan: They're reason up and it's like the dick's gonna sit in like a weird way. I might even like touch your leg. Like I don't know what's going to happen. So yes, Sleazy Tony. And they're just like, oh God.
Laura: Yeah. You don't want to be his partner.
Ryan: You do not. And the thing is is they have a hierarchy there. So he's probably getting massaged by the same one maybe. Well, no, because Imogen puts. Although uh, they kind of treated him more like a woman. So he's like putting the woman together.
Laura: Oh, well. Well, because it was his first cooldown.
Ryan: Yeah. He didn't want him getting too involved in the men getting all naked and stuff.
Laura: Like proably an odd number because you know, potentially.
Ryan: Yeah. Ah. Because he just joined. Yeah. Well that probably meant that she wasn't getting a massage at all.
Laura: No. Yeah. Probably not ever.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Because she's um, a woman.
Ryan: But yeah, that scenes fucking like it's odd. It's like if it was being done for comedy purposes, that's fine. And I mean I kind of like to make the distinction between like obviously we have a very fine purpose as to why we look at a moment like this and then we're like, why is it not better and stuff. But like maybe to an audience. Yeah. I don't know, maybe to like an audience who isn't interested in this sort of thing. Like that was exactly what they were going for for the comedic side of it.
Laura: I don't think it was for comedy sake. I think it was more of an intimidation factor because you have Eisenberg, who is more of the feminine character amongst the hyper masculine. So when you show a penis in a situation like that, you are. Youre pushing your masculinity in someones face where someone like Casey's more trying to maybe find it or hide it in some ways, you. He's trying to discover that masculinity. So these men, the hyper masculine, are pushing it in his face, which is. And it's also a really good example of how you have these hyper masculine spaces. Right. This karate dojo.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Which you're showing the hyper masculine. But it looks the opposite because you have these men being pushed together. A lot of them are face to face, really close together. Like
00:40:00
Laura: when they, uh, have the. Not the graduation ceremony, but when they go up a level in their belt color and they're just right up next to each other and they're tying that belt and they're just right in each other's faces.
Ryan: It might be because Sensei is maybe a little gay.
Laura: I think everyone is. Well, everyone's a little gay. Pretty sure.
Ryan: What in the world?
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: All right. Oay that. Yeah. I mean, I'd. I'd rather have a little bit than too much of it.
Laura: I'd rather have.
Ryan: Have a little bit, you know, a.
Laura: Little bit than none at all.
Ryan: Yeah, that's true. That's very true. That's actually probably better way of seen it because I was about to like, distinguish what, what that would mean, like, in a physical sense.
Laura: Because if you're going to put forth a Persona of hyper straight, it just looks super gay anyway.
Ryan: Yeah, that's very true.
Laura: Which is what happens to Sensei, who was putting forth this hyper masculine, hyper straight. Where, uh, he puts forth many monologues in this movie.
Ryan: Yeah, he does.
Laura: And one of the monologues, I think he says the word masculine maybe four times in a row.
Ryan: He does? Yeah. So it's like he's trying to hide up for the fact, uh, that maybe he's not that, uh, masculine.
Laura: He seems like a character that was probably exactly like Casey in his youth that was afraid and didn't understand his own masculinity. And he's. It's like a shroud. It's fake.
Ryan: O.
Laura: It's all false. His name's Leslie.
Ryan: Well, yeah, that's the thinge, you know.
Laura: Humiliate a boy named sue so you get the shit beat out of you by, you know, quote, hyper masculine dudes.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And then you have to learn to defend yourself.
Ryan: Yeah. This stick seems still weird though. Like it's still odd. Doesn't make a lot of sense becausee, like, I don't know. Is he is the guy who's getting fully naked, Is he the one who's intimidating the most? I guess he is.
Laura: He is the most comfortable with himself.
Ryan: Because that'happen to me again. I've brought this up before, but this has happened to me at the ymca. You know what I mean?
Laura: Well, those are the men that are the most comfortable.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And uh, that are showing off. So you have the most comfortable, masculine man who's completely naked. And then you have Casey who couldn't dare to take his shirt off.
Ryan: That's very true. Yeah.
Laura: So you have that dichotomy and that, you know, that juxtaposition of opposites for these two characters, which we don't. We never even meet that character.
Ryan: No, he's just a guy. Yeah, I thought. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. If we're explaining it. Explaining it. Explaining it. Really extrapolating it, uh, then yeah, I don't know. That that kind of makes sense. But still odd though.
Laura: I know. There. I really wish, man, I would have been. Oh, I would have been sizzling with joy if the other two dudes were naked. Just because it would have looked good. It would have just looked better.
Ryan: It would have looked better.
Laura: But it's, uh.
Ryan: I mean, because, I mean, they were following all the same rules. I know. You know, that's the thing. And it's.
Laura: And they're rule heavy. There's so many rules.
Ryan: Yeah. Again, very for clubby. Yeah.
Laura: Guns are for win.
Ryan: Very quite Clubby.
Laura: No snacks. Take your shoes off.
Ryan: And if this is your first night at fight club, you have to fight.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Well, a movie. So fucking good as well. It's so fucking good.
Laura: Well, is there anything else you want to add? I guess I meant to come back around to the tits on the computer and stuff and how he punched his boss in the face. He'like well, doesn.
Ryan: He punches him in the neck, fucking plugs him in the neck. Yeah. It's really fucking dangerous.
Laura: I think we did mention earlier as well that the dog dies, which is ridiculous.
Ryan: Yeah, he was.
Laura: By a foot punch.
Ryan: By a foot punch or a kick? No, it's a foot punch. No, it's a kick punch. No, it's a foot punch and a hand kick. Hand kick.
Laura: Something like that.
Ryan: There you go. I almost fucked up.
Laura: It's a good thing you're the editor.
Ryan: Yeah, I thought I wrote them down as well because obviously that Night we watched it, stayed up drinking, watching it. Um, no, I don't think I wrote it down'just. Stuff that's been rattling around in my head for the last four days.
Laura: Well, well, well. Would you like to get into our ratings?
Ryan: Yeah, I guess so.
Laura: Um, would you like to go first for your visibility and context?
Ryan: Well, I think, yeah, you did a lot of explaining. So I kind of thinking about, like, this scene has to be straight down the middle. It's like two and a half. Because the thing is, it kind of squanders it. It's like it does it. And you're like, wow, that's really good. But then you're just like, wait, what? Why, why is he the only one? And, you know, we can really extrapolate it and think about it, but like, in the general scheme of things, like on a very kind of
00:45:00
Ryan: simple b, you know, basic thing, this is meant to be uncomfortable or it's in and it's meant to be uncomfortably funny. Yeah, why not just ramp it up? Put the other guy'get his knob out and, and put it, put it there, you know? Or were they all so intimidated by this one guy who's just like, yeah, I'll do it naked becausez that's gonna be fucking hilarious. That's what they hired me for and. But yeah, it's just, it's so. It's just weird. I'm just over explaining it, uh, now. But, yeah, it's just weird. It's a weird. It's a weird scene. I feel like I kind of squandered something that could have been a lot better.
Laura: So for visibility in context, I. I've been thinking about it all day and I think I'm going to give it a four. And I'm giving it a four on the benefit of the doubt here because I'm hoping maybe there was something in terms of like, censors, because censors are always going to be more willing to budge on violence, but not nudity.
Ryan: Some came out in 2019, though. I don't think that would have been too much of a problem.
Laura: And it is weird because it's like it premiered it south by. So that's not, uh, the type of place where it would be an issue. And just kind of, you know, this isn't something that's going to open up in every Regal and AMC theaters. Do you know what I mean? It's a little bit more underground, a little bit more niche. So, yeah, there's a part of me that thinks that it could have been all the wieners. And it probably should have been because that would have been really striking.
Ryan: Maybe there is a cut that has all the wieners. Maybe there is. Maybe there's different versions of it.
Laura: Maybe.
Ryan: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Or like maybe that's the only take you could get or something like. I don't really know.
Laura: I'm still gonna give it a 4 just because I felt like I explained it really well earlier and I'm just go going toa stick with that. I don't need to re. Explain it.
Ryan: Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. We don't need to do that.
Laura: Go ahead with your. Your film ratings.
Ryan: So this was a weird one and I've kind of started this, this trend where if I know nothing about the movie, uh, and I. And I'm going in completely blind, which is 90% of the time of me going in to watch a movie. U. Um, usually I start at two and a half and it either. It's either worse than I think and it dips down from, from more than two and a half or it improves as I'm watching it and it can go up to obviously, you know, the higher numbers up to five. So for me, obviously starting at two and a half, this film didn't get any better than three, but it's still better than average. There's some interesting stuff in this and I think, I just think again there's some things. There's some parallels. There's some very suspicious, um. Um. Uh, imitation stuff going on in this.
Laura: Um.
Ryan: Um. Yeah, there is some parts of it that I think are actually quite good. And the film doesn't look half bad either. I think it looks quite, quite nice. I like that sort of. I like that sort of uh. Feels very structural, that sort of filmmaking. I don't like to say it's finy, but can be. It's a little finy. Which means that, you know, you re. You're frames are tight and everything looks really good and it's you know, that sort of thing. It looks very uh, polished. So yeah, I would say that like, you know, the film does look good and it's, you know, it's got, there's got some, there's some decent things in it. But yeah, it just didn't get any better than a three for me.
Laura: I'm a little bit more. I'm on the positive side of it, but I still gave it a three for the film. I mean that jumped up two whole stars from the first time I Watched it where I hated it. I don't know what kind of mood I was in. I just didn't like it.
Ryan: She really pissed off. It's not like. And that's the thing, like two and a half means it's average. It's just. It's better than average.
Laura: And honestly, on a third viewing, I could absolutely see this going higher. If I watched it with more people, I think that might help. I've only ever seen this by myself. That's always helpful. But I think there's a lot more in it that I'm grabbing onto now than I did when I saw it the first time. I enjoyed it. I thought it was funny. I thought it was really, really dark, which I really like. And I think that I just wish that there more penisesn in t it. Man, if there was a couple more dicks in this, this probably would have been at least a four. At least.
Ryan: Yeah, it would have. It would have been a bit.
Laura: Been like hol. Crap. Do you remember that scene? Like, it would have been so memorable. And it's not like you want one particular thing to be like a standout. You want the whole movie to flow. You want the tone to be all.
Ryan: Here's the thing. Most movies are threes, which is fine. Most movies, it's a good. Almost 90% of all
00:50:00
Ryan: films ever made are like, uh, a. Like a three.
Laura: I'll watch a three again and again and again. Three's got a rewatch value.
Ryan: Yeah. Because even the stuff that you think'like, it'fucking terrible. I.3 at least guarantees the fact that, like, even at two and a half, you know, guarantees the fact that a bunch of folk got together and they thought the story was good enough to actually make into something. So, you know, that should always be commended. Even if it's, you know, birdemic.
Laura: Oh, I love birdemic.
Ryan: Yeah. Because birdemic is perfect. It is exactly what you think it's meant to be. So, like. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So for me. And that kind of like, means maybe I'm in a sunnier mood or something. Because there are stuff out there that is like a one. It's like painfully offensive.
Laura: And Bridget Jones's Baby.
Ryan: Yeah. Stuff that's just like. That was like. That was. Yeah, that like. That was an ordeal that I wish I never went through. And that's kind of like. That's kind of like, um. That fucking film we saw last night. Freaky Tales. Yeah.
Laura: It was just not cohesive.
Ryan: Painfully boing. Was like. Yeah. The only thing I would say if anyone's not seeing it is Danger Zone. That is the shit, right?
Laura: They were amazing. Yeah, that was the best part. I would watch a movie just about them.
Ryan: Yeah, I mean, they should. They should have made that movie. But they didn't.
Laura: But anyway, I happen it in chapters. Like there's no reason for it stupid.
Ryan: Anyway, moving on. U um, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think this film is fine. And uh, you know what? That's fine.
Laura: I look forward to seeing Duel, which I haven't seen yet.
Ryan: Duel? Yeah. Well, obviously I cant say dueual and D dual. I cant say because of my accent.
Laura: Youre fine.
Ryan: Its my fucking nationality. Speech impediment coming in and it'just Thats the end of it.
Laura: Well, thank you sensei, for joining in this discussion of the art of self defense. And coming to you from the night class, I have been Laura Arigato. Uh, wow. Shut it down. Oh my God. No, that never happened in the movie.
00:52:09