What do you get when you mix religion with Sherlock Holmes? You get Sean Connery and his assistant Christian Slater busting around a monastery solving murders in THE NAME OF THE ROSE!
INSERT LATIN PHRASE TO EXPRESS HOW INTELLIGENT WE ARE!
This film is a bit of a treat, honestly. There's a lot to like here, the most of which is a Sean Connery really hammering it out of the park with a riveting performance to remind us of how much range he had. Yeah, this also has some rich cinematography, some impressive set design, and some stellar makeup that transforms Ron Perlman into a hunchback.
Yeah, we are congratulating this film a fair amount. But not of faith and religion (as we rip the idea apart for the better part of an hour).
The Name of the Rose: Unveiling Medieval Mysteries
Laura: I'm wondering if I can do my intro as if it was kind of a monastic chant. Well, hello, uh, there, and welcome to On the BiTTE Yes, that so works. That worked. The podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. You're not cutting that out. That is canon. Calm down. We are here to talk about the 19 m 86 historical mystery, the name of the rose. And Ryan, before we start, I do want to warn you that the devil is hurling beautiful boys out of windows.
Ryan: I think. Yeah. The fact that that is a line in the movie is also. It's alarming.
Laura: Also, I am Laura, and I am joined by my co host, Ryan. Hi, Ryan.
Ryan: I am Ryan. Yes. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of. There's also a lot Sean Connery in this movie as well, so he's gonna be lucky. He's gonna be present during the podcast. Um, yeah.
Laura: This film stars Sean Connery as, uh, William of Baskerville. Second build is f. Murray Abraham, who doesn't show up until 81 minutes into the film.
Ryan: He's very good, though.
Laura: Bernardo guillotine.
Ryan: He's very good.
Laura: Christian Slater is Adzu of milk. Milk. Ron Perlman is in this movie, a salvatore, and Valentina Vargas is simply the girl. Yeah, no name.
Ryan: I will also say, as well as this, uh, is maybe second to one flew over the cuckoo's nest for collecting such a colorful cast of, like, bitpak, you know, bit part characters who look phenomenal in this. Like, they fit this perfectly. And it's. It comes back to my argument from before where I'm like, where are those. Where are those people? Like, where are they now? Because people obviously, back then, like, a 39 year old back then doesn't look like a 39 year old now. So I just wonder where they are, because I want them. I want them for the film that, uh, I'm making that's very similar to this. I want them. I want those weird faced, buck toothed, big nose, massive ear, big bald chaps that have, like, those very interesting, like, landscape faces. Where are they?
Laura: Why don't you ask director Jean Jacques Anod, who is still alive, okay? Because he hunted and searched and trekked around the world to find these characters and these people who looked weird all.
Ryan: Ah, right, well, you know, I mean, are, ah, they all just in France? Because that would also make sense.
Laura: Or Italy, where the movie is set.
Ryan: Europe.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Well, he's a french director. He's a french film director, screenwriter and producer. I'm glad we get to talk about him because I get to mention enemy at the gates.
Laura: Yes. I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna just throw in my synopsis first, okay? Because I always forget to do that. Well, I don't always forget sometimes. The synopsis that I pulled from letterboxd is. 14th century franciscan monk William of Baskerville and his young novice arrive at a conference to find that several monks have been murdered under mysterious circumstances. To solve the crimes, William must rise up against the church's authority and fight the shadowy conspiracy of the monastery monks using only his intelligence, which is considerable.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: Smart man.
Ryan: M. He. Well, he is. He values. Yeah, because he's, he's. He is a riveting character.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Yeah. Because he values knowledge over, effectively over faith. Because faith is, like, blind, but knowledge is power in this particular story.
Laura: Absolutely. M this film also has one of my favorite taglines. Are you ready? Do you hear it?
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Who in the name of God is getting away with murder?
Ryan: Oh, Jesus.
Laura: So good.
Ryan: Jesus Christ. Yeah.
Laura: God be praised.
Ryan: God be praised.
Laura: Okay, now you can tell us about the director, Jean Jacques Aunod.
Ryan: Oh, thank you. That was a fantastic segue. Um, mercy. So, yeah. Jean Jacques Ainaud, French. Ah. Film director, screenwriter and producer. He's received numerous awards for his work, like five Sezer awards, one David D. Donatello
00:05:00
Ryan: award, one National Academy of Cinema award, and he also won the Academy Award for best foreign foreign language film. Um, he has mostly been a film director. He hasn't really strayed too far into tv or anything. There is one tv thing, but I just didn't really. I didn't write. Write it down. Um, but his filmography is quite extensive. Um, so we have black, black and white in color from 76, hot head from 79, quest for fire from 81, the name of the rose, which is obviously what we're talking about today, from 1986, the bear from 88, the lover from 1992, wings of courage from 1995, which was a Imax film. Um, and it was only 40 minutes long. I remember hearing about it, rather, seeing it. I can't really remember too much. Seven years in Tibet. That's that Brad Pitt vehicle from 97. At the gates from 2001, where everyone is russian, but they're not russian. Uh, two brothers from 2004, his Majesty minor from 2007, black gold from 2011, Wolf Totem from 2015. And then we have a film in 2022, which I'm probably going to crucify. Notre Dame bruel, I think.
Laura: Wow.
Ryan: Yes. Well, I should have shared it in my Sean Connery voice, but, uh, there's no essays in there. So it's kind of like a waste of my time, but, yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Laura: I was searching for where this monastery was because, you know, like, why don't they say the name of the monastery? But this was not set in a historical monastery.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Uh, the exteriors and some of the interiors were constructed outside of Rome on a hilltop. But this prop set ended up being the biggest exterior set built in Europe since Cleopatra from 1963.
Ryan: It's incredibly impressive. Like, it's huge. Like, it's really cool looking. Um, yeah, no, I was really impressed by the way this film looks and the set design and stuff.
Laura: Yeah, I agree. Um, and the interiors were shot at Eberbach Abbey in Germany.
Ryan: Huh.
Laura: Several of the interiors, not all of them.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And I found it really interesting that no one wanted Sean Connery in this role. He was vying for it. He had his agent calling the director all of the time, trying to get him in and at least have a conversation about it, because he really, really wanted to play that part. And finally it got to the point where they were like, all right, fine, we're going to give him a shot. And ano gave him the script and he goes, he calls him boy, like he would, you know, he calls the director boy, and then he gives him his first cue, and Ano said that the reading gave him goose pimples. He goes, what I was hearing was what I had heard inside of me for almost two years. And I stopped him on page three and they gave him the job.
Ryan: Right, okay. Yeah, no, I think, um. Yeah, I think people are pleasantly surprised by the amount of range that Sean Connery seems to elicit sometimes. Um, as much as, like, it is obviously Sean Connery playing Sean Connery. Um, but here he's just. Yeah, he's riveting because he does certain things in this, which reminded me of what he's like as, ah, daddy Jones and the last crusade as well, like, when he gets excited. Um, and certainly there's other things as well, because obviously, I think the untouchables is also still a very good role for him as well. Even though it's a little bit. It's a little bit all over the place. Um, yeah, I think people would be pleasantly surprised. I think he's just. He's just like, ah, yeah, he's just got a star quality about him, though. Just make some riveting on the screen.
Laura: Yeah, he. He stands out quite a bit. Well, I mean, he is massive. Well, so is Ron Perlman is huge.
Ryan: Yeah, they're massive. Well, he's a hunchback in this one. But, yeah, like, he's. He is massive in this. And I don't know. I don't know if everybody else has had to be scaled up in order to kind of meet. Obviously, Connery is quite lofty and, um, lofty shoulders. But, yeah, no. Uh, he is a presence.
Laura: Everyone on set, the cast, the crew, only had good things to say about Sean Connery. Cause he doesn't have an amazing reputation.
Ryan: No.
Laura: So it's interesting to me that the director talked about working with Sean Connery and working with F. Murray Abraham. And what he said was, everybody warned me that Sean Connery was impossible and an,
00:10:00
Laura: uh, extremely difficult character. He was an absolute dream, and I got on with him fantastically. My only bad memory of an actor across my whole career, and I've directed, I think, thousands of actors, was f. Murray Abraham.
Ryan: Oh, wow.
Laura: He was terrible. Not so much with me, but rather with Sean. He would say, I've got the oscar, and he's an old idiot.
Ryan: Oh, dear.
Laura: They would both arrive late because Sean didn't want to wait for F. Murray, and F. Murray didn't want to wait for Sean. It was like a school playground.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: He was a diva.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: Other people said it, too.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: About working with F. Murray Abraham. Apparently, he's an asshole.
Ryan: Oh, boy.
Laura: Um, the next year, by the way, was when Sean Connery won the Oscar for untouchables.
Ryan: Yeah, it's a weird. Yeah, it's always a weird. It's a weird, um. It's a weird one to win for, is the untouchables.
Laura: I agree, because his.
Ryan: His accent is literally all over the place in that one. Um, but he's. Again, he's. Yeah, he. He pulls it out of the bag. It's kind of like, um. Yeah, it's kind of like Michael Caine. Like, Michael Caine can't be anything other than Michael Caine, but he elicits some level of range, like, some difference between the characters to make each of them memorable.
Laura: Well, they both went from being sexy spies traditionally in film, to kind of that, uh. I'm sure it's difficult to kind of transition into that older actor and kind of seeing what type of roles you get from there, which I think is what Sean Connery is fighting against this whole time, is that he's bond.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And people go, he's bond.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: How is he gonna play this franciscan monk? How is that gonna play?
Ryan: Well, this is sometime after bonds, for.
Laura: Sure, but he was having a hard time.
Ryan: Yeah, he would have been having a difficult time. And he has done he has done. Um. Unfortunately, he's not with us anymore, but he. Yeah, I feel like he elevated himself from those bond roots as much as they tried to, like, bring him back. But the minute. The minute Sean Connery had his facial hair and he went grey and he stopped dying his hair and stuff like that, like, folk knew it was like. No, he's definitely trying to distance himself from the. The James Bond Persona, um, to, you know, obviously the lovable, cuddly Sean Connery that we all. That we all love, so.
Laura: Totally.
Ryan: Yeah. Um. Yeah, no, but I do think. I do think, um. Yeah, I think both of those actors came from very similar backgrounds. I think Sean Connery started more as a model, and I think that's kind of where that came from. I'm not too sure if Michael Caine did the same thing. He could have. He could have, uh. He definitely could have. And, um. Yeah, but either way, like, their performances elevate whatever film they're in. I think that's like. That's the true makings of, like, a movie star, basically.
Laura: Hell, yeah.
Ryan: You know, which I don't think you see. You don't see it as much anymore, you know?
Laura: I don't know.
Ryan: I guess we just. We've maybe moved away from that.
Laura: There are.
Ryan: I think there's people that have the capability to become a star, but. Yeah. Do they have the same kind of level of power, like the charisma, like a screen presence that, say, some of these more classic actors have? Yeah, I don't know yet.
Laura: There's people that I want to. That I think of right off the top of my head, but they're also people that are weird and maybe. I don't know. I don't know. They're weirdos. Like Tom Cruise.
Ryan: Yeah, well, he's. Yeah, he's kind of like a weird outlier, though. It's like you either like Tom Cruise or you really don't like Tom Cruise, and I'm kind of somewhere in the middle.
Laura: Well, then that defeats your point. Yeah, that doesn't work.
Ryan: I think I did that before. Yeah.
Laura: You either love him or you hate him. I'm kind of in the middle. No, no, sir. But I'm with you. No, I. No, let's just say there's a spectrum of emotions regarding Tom Cruise. Yeah, yeah. But there are people that really can't stand him and can't stand you.
Ryan: Yeah, well, he's. Yeah, he makes serious bank. I think that's the whole point of, like, what makes a movie star. A movie star is like, how much money can they get from the box office? I'd say like anyone who was in a Marvel movie, at least like before, let's just say at the end of Endgame, like anything after Endgame I don't really give a shit about. But the, uh. Yeah, anyone who was in those Marvel movies, you would say they're, they're
00:15:00
Ryan: movie stars, probably. They just don't have the range that I think Sean Connery and stuff have.
Laura: Robert Downey junior.
Ryan: Yeah. Maybe he's an outlier still.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. Chris Evans. I'm not really too fussed about seeing in anything else, really.
Laura: He's gonna be in a Christmas movie with the rock and. Oh my gosh, what's his name? J. Jonah Jameson. What's his real name?
Ryan: Oh, Jean Simmons.
Laura: Gene Simmons.
Ryan: Yeah. Isn't it Simmons something? Simmons.
Laura: JK Simmons.
Ryan: JK Simmons.
Laura: Not the singer of kiss. Anyway, I saw a trailer for it the other day and I just groaned. I go, oh man, this looks bad. But you know, I'll probably go see it anyway.
Ryan: Of course you will. Of course you will.
Laura: The rock.
Ryan: Yeah, talk about range.
Laura: Well, he's the guy. You show up and you're like, oh, that's. Anyway, there's gonna be trouble. Yeah, okay. He's gonna.
Ryan: Skyscraper with his bare hands.
Laura: I love skyscraper. I want to bring you all back.
Ryan: To the year of our lord, to the dark ages.
Laura: 1327.
Ryan: Mm mhm.
Laura: Hmm. And I would also really like to talk about the monks tonsure, which I find so incredibly fascinating. Okay, I didn't know the name of it before, but I do have a minor in medieval history, so I should know what this is.
Ryan: Wap wap. Here we go.
Laura: I wrote a lot of history, so you guys are gonna learn some well today.
Ryan: Well, actually, I have a minor in medieval history.
Laura: I really thought that you guys should get some medieval knowledge.
Ryan: You only bring it up like two or three times a day. Like tell me about your, uh, minors and your majors.
Laura: That's so incorrect, but maybe I should just to torture you.
Ryan: I majored in the school of life.
Laura: I majored in the school of hard knocks. Yeah, motherfuckers.
Ryan: School of mashed potatoes and mints. That's what I have.
Laura: Uh, that is weird.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: For those of you who don't know the tonsur, as you probably noticed how all the monks have the top of their head shaved. Or, you know, it could go in a variety of different ways, just depending on your flavor and your style, how you want your hair. But they usually have a ring of hair around their head, depending on how much hair they have left. But they usually shave the top of their head, so that is a specific practice in medieval Catholicism. Other religions have it, too, but this one particularly just consists of the, uh, cutting or shaving of the hair on the scalp, and it's their external sign of devotion or humility to God. Right. Um, and the word tonsur is derived from the latin tonsura, which means clipping or shearing.
Ryan: Wow, look at that.
Laura: There you go.
Ryan: Otherwise also known as the friar tuck.
Laura: That's right. The old haircut I saw, Disney's Robin Hood.
Ryan: Well, there's also. There's the Kevin Costner vehicle as well.
Laura: No one cares about that.
Ryan: No, there's also.
Laura: No, I'm just kidding. It's really good. Yeah, I wrote down, cut his heart.
Ryan: Out with a spoon.
Laura: I wrote down, all these franciscan monks look fucked up.
Ryan: They all look. I mean, I would say that instead of saying that, that that's character.
Laura: Well, the director and I alluded to this before, but the director admitted to casting the ugliest actors he could get because he wanted the characters to appear real and based on the men in the village that he grew up in.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: He actually went home, and the people were asking him, did you? Were you trying to base the people on us? And do you think we're that ugly? And he goes, yeah.
Ryan: Well, yeah, I mean, if that's the way it's gonna be. I mean. I mean, if that's what. Yeah, I was. I'd be looking for the uglies. Jesus, I'm too pretty. I'm too pretty to put in that village.
Laura: Yeah. Um, and it's really wild how much prosthetic makeup they had to put on Ron Perlman with that little tooth, the.
Ryan: One scraggle tooth he's got, and the fucked up nose.
Laura: The nose, the biggest nostril.
Ryan: And obviously, he had a hunchback as well. Yeah, yeah.
Laura: Well, since we're talking about Ron Perlman, his, uh, character in the book was described. Salvatore was described as someone who speaks six languages at once, uh, like Latin, Italian, German, English, and French.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So Ron Perlman got copies of the book in each of those languages and composed mixed language sentences by combining words from Salvatore, sentences from each book. He did that himself. And this is something we were talking about. Our friend of the podcast, Josh,
00:20:00
Laura: the other day. We were talking about Ron Perlman, as you do, and discussing how if there is a director that he wants to work with, he will go out of his way. He's like, this is an interesting project. This is an interesting director, and it doesn't matter what language the film is in, he'll go learn languages and learn his lines in different languages just so he can work with specific directors, because he's passionate about that. Ron Perlman's awesome.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, that's why he's been in a bunch of, uh, Jean Pierre Janeau movies. Like the Jeanneau and Caro movies. Yeah, like City of lost children and stuff like that.
Laura: Exactly.
Ryan: That's why he's in a bunch of those.
Laura: That's so cool.
Ryan: It is. Yes. And I think Sean Connery's character, he's able to peg that. He's like, he speaks all languages, but then also none of the languages at the same time.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Yeah. This film's incredibly well written as well. I will kind of put that out there. There's some really good lines of dialogue in this. My favorite being seeking, um, intercourse with the devil. And then immediately when that was said, I was like, fuck. Yeah. Here we go.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, yeah, this film's basically about monastic Sherlock Holmes, you know, trying to find out who's doing all the murders with some weird sex in the middle of. Yeah, actually, the sex isn't weird. Sex is fine.
Ryan: Well, this. There is no women. This is a, uh. This is a commune of monks. There is no women in this commune whatsoever. There are poor people that they feed, but they are relegated to the outside walls of this, uh, of this, uh, commune. Because. Yeah, it would be. If it was a. If it was women, it'd be coven. Right.
Laura: Well, I think that. Yeah, they're just village. The village people.
Ryan: The village people. Um.
Laura: Yeah. Who are. They're not given enough food by the monks at all. They're not taking care of, which is why that girl goes in through the, uh, sluice that they open up and. Well, she either takes food or she has sex with the monks in trade for food.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh. Yeah, it's a pretty sad. Sorry, state of affairs. Um, but it's. Yeah, it's, like, brutally interesting because it all kind of revolves around a book, effectively. Yeah, it just all kind of revolves. It revolves around this. Like, there are scholars there. There are people who, like, try and understand these texts, but they keep the texts locked away. So they only want to extrapolate certain texts, which, again, is like, that whole thing idea of, like, uh, history, uh, is written by the victors, like that sort of idea.
Laura: So, yeah, gatekeeping knowledge of things that they don't think is Christian.
Ryan: Yes. So, effectively, what you have is when Sean Connery comes in, because you're effective, he's effectively going into, and he knows this. He's effectively going into a situation where facts and reasoning are going to be blinded by faith and blind faith. And this idea that to him, knowledge is power. Like, certainly he cites, like, Archimedes and a lot of these very kind of, um, you know, legendary writings, um, to make his deductions. But effectively, what he has met is that he is, he's roadblocked during this investigation. It's a weird thing because, like, a lot, like, they bring him in for, you know, to figure out, uh, who's doing the murdering. But then it's like, well, were you not expecting him to dive this deepest into this investigation? Because, like, certain things obviously start to be unraveled, certain mysteries begin to be solved, and then what you're kind of left with is like, you know, they're gatekeeping these knowledge, this knowledge. They're gatekeeping certain texts, they're gatekeeping a lot of these things from these people so that they're not influenced by it to the point where, spoiler alert, they poison the books. Um, to the point where if anyone is reading certain texts and obviously the way that they do, and I thought was very clever, was that they lace the ink within the pages with arsenic. So when they lick their finger to turn a page, they get sick and they die from doing so. Um, and I just, yeah, I found this world, at least that kind of idea of it. Wherever,
00:25:00
Ryan: you know, there's a man in there who's, like, who does not like laughter. He's like, very much about. Without fear, there is no belief in God, because if there's no fear for the devil, then there would be no fear. There would be no belief in God, basically. Like, there'd be no need for, like, a feeling of salvation. And then obviously, Sean Connery, who's been put through, like, his character has been put through the mill, he's been tried for heresy. Uh, at one point in his life, you know, he has been tortured. He has had to seek retribution for some of the ideas that he's had. But it's not like, for him, he's so steadfast in his quest as a person, as an intellectual, as a scholar, because facts are the way forward, because facts are truth, you know. Um, so for me, like, I really enjoyed the dichotomy of that situation, you know, where, yeah, he's just, he's just, uh, he's just vying for knowledge and just wanting to find a little bit of common sense in a world that is effectively going crazy because of the inquisition. Effectively.
Laura: Right. You know, well, he's afraid that because he. Yeah, he's one of. He's probably the only person with his head on his shoulders properly.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And he's worried that if he doesn't figure out what the truth is behind these murders, that they are just immediately going to go, oh, it's the devil. Someone's doing devil stuff, some satanic stuff. The devil's in here. There was one point where they go, what's worrying me the most is how much it seems like they want the devil in here, how much they're talking about it.
Ryan: Yes. But I think it comes back to the fact that if they have the devil there, then they have an element of control over these people by saying, like, well, look, the devil's here, but if you believe in God hard enough, then you'll be safe. I think that's basically what that means.
Laura: I mean, that's. That's how it goes.
Ryan: I mean, that's what religion is, guys. If you didn't know it's a control device. It always has been. So. I don't know.
Laura: Well, by some people, for others, it's a, uh, you know, a way to be a good person. If you use it the way that it.
Ryan: Use it wisely. Yeah. If you actually read the Bible and you actually understand it, then, yeah, you can get good stuff out of it. You don't just cherry pick out of it and. And just make that. Make those certain things something that you feel like you need to believe in because you're deep down a bad person. Um, but, yes, I do enjoy, at least in this film. Yeah. The dichotomy of this situation when these two characters come in to. Because at the opening of the movie, we see them on a horse. And I was later corrected. Slater's not on a horse. No, he's on a donkey. Yeah, he's a donkey.
Laura: Cause he's the apprentice.
Ryan: He is. He has to. He has an ass.
Laura: And also, Sean Connery can't fit on a donkey. He's massive.
Ryan: No, he's a big horse. Yeah.
Laura: Taller than a horse. That guy.
Ryan: I would break the back of that fucking donkey.
Laura: Christian Slater is just a little guy. He's only 17 when they filmed this. He's a baby. This is only his second feature that's come out. I think he'd done, like, a couple projects before this.
Ryan: And then, uh, let's just bear in mind he's a minor. When we talk about this scene, that is true. He's a minor. He's underage. Uh. Oh, dear.
Laura: Well, his mom was the casting agent.
Ryan: Uh. Oh.
Laura: He. He.
Ryan: Mommy dearest, apparently.
Laura: Apparently he. They saw two other actors for the part of the girl, and he had a thing for. Was her name Valentina? M the actor? And he told his mom, like, hey, no, I want that one.
Ryan: Yeah, I don't know about that. All right. Okay.
Laura: There it is.
Ryan: Well, yeah, it is what it is. That's the way it goes.
Laura: Mommy, please. I think that girl is really pretty. Let me take my wiener out. Touch your boobies.
Ryan: It's who you know. Yeah, it's who you know. Um. Yeah, no, he has sex with the wild wenche.
Laura: So this scene comes in at about 50 minutes and 22 seconds. Somewhere around there. It's. You know. This is an estimation.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. Around. About that.
Laura: Uh, yeah. So, as we said, the peasant girl comes in through the sluice to get food for her family and herself. And this kind of comes about at the end of a chase scene where they're trying to, you know, they're trying to find the book. They're trying to solve this mystery. Right. So adso and William are chasing, uh, down a guy from the library.
Ryan: Yeah. They refer to this man who's, like, the librarian's assistants, as, like, the moon faced monk,
00:30:00
Ryan: because he's.
Laura: Wasn't that the really big dude?
Ryan: Really big dude.
Laura: Really, really pale.
Ryan: Very pale. And he had a kind of feminine. He had feminine traits about him. Um, like, he would scream and stuff out. A very feminine.
Laura: Oh, right.
Ryan: Yes. Um, so, yeah, they've been. They've been tracking this guy down because he's. He is. He is withholding evidence.
Laura: Oh, he's a bad boy.
Ryan: Yeah. He is withholding evidence. So.
Laura: So someone is looking for the peasant girl in the kitchen, and that is where adso is hiding. And he meets her in there. And. A meet cute. A murdery meet cute.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Again, because he'd seen her before.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, this kind of comes a little bit out, uh, of, uh, left field as well. This moment.
Laura: Wildly.
Ryan: Yeah. You're kind of just like. Oh, wait, hold on. Yeah, because there's no. There's no part of, um, adso who basically. Who, uh. Um. Yeah. Like, he just kind of just lets it. Lets it. Right. Basically, um.
Laura: It's a little bit predatory on her part. Quite a bit for a while, until he starts to participate. But at the beginning. Yeah. It's an interesting thing because you still have William out there running around. And then adso's in the kitchen, getting busy with this girl. He is getting busy, but for whatever reason, he is very non sexual. He's just a wide eyed, bright eyed young man who is just kind of enamored with William and, uh, learning and kind of enjoying this investigation in a way. You know, he's like having a good time with his friend, and this chick comes out of nowhere who he hasn't really done anything to let her know that he's interested in her sexually, because that's nothing. The thing is, monks take a vow of chastity. Not that they have to keep it. No, because, you know, you do get forgiven by God when you confess your sins in Catholicism, you do.
Ryan: And certainly there was, uh. Yeah, the way they refer to the young boys, quote unquote, that live on the plate.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: It's like beautiful young boys like, you kind of understand where some of these men are potentially leading.
Laura: Um, well, so I have more on that. I'm gonna talk about that in a second. So. But she. This girl is really, really horned up for adso.
Ryan: She sees amorous.
Laura: She is amorous to the extreme, and she gets right to it. She just grabs his hand, puts. Mhm. It on her boob and starts getting a little rubbed down, and she has a really hard time getting off his, his outfit.
Ryan: Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's probably. It's like that for a reason, I feel. But I think, um. Yeah, it's, ah, an odd. It's an odd moment, but it does make sense. Um, but yeah, it's obvious that, like, the minute you say like, oh, she's there and she's like, seducing the monks so that she can get food. That completely makes sense to sense. And they're aware that she's there and she's doing this. And I think the person who was trying to chase her out was trying to look for her. Um, you know, the monks are okay with this happening. He's just kind of just like, no, get your, get your slut self, uh, down that sluice. You know, like, it's not, um. Yeah, they're not all in agreement with it, but, yeah, like she just. She just kind of gets. Yeah, she just goes. Gets to work. No, so does he, to be fair.
Laura: Well, at first, his hands are kind of out in this, you know, way where, uh, I don't know, in like, please don't. I don't know what's happening, and I'm a scared young man. They, uh, don't speak.
Ryan: She is effectively moot. She doesn't say anything. Pretty much during the course of the movie, she doesn't say a single thing.
Laura: She does later on, does she? Yeah.
Ryan: What is she speaking? Italian?
Laura: I think she just yells a lot, right? Well, yeah, maybe can speak.
Ryan: I think for the most part. Like, we don't really. We don't really hear any of the peasant folks saying very much, or would. We don't really understand what they're saying. It's also another one of those movies as well. I'm just gonna kind of put this out there. I know we're doing the Dixie and stuff, but, like, I wish they did it in the native language. So it all kind of made sense, because at certain points, like, they're speaking Latin or they're saying, you know, they're speaking in Greek or they're doing Italian. It's kind of just like, can you just, like, universalize it? So, like. Like, I can make my distinction myself, you know, it's kind of like enemy at the gates, where it's just like, why don't they all just speak Russian? It's in fucking Russia. I was like, why are we not speaking Russian? Like, it would have made just more sense. It's that whole thing of just, like, let's just generalize a european
00:35:00
Ryan: accent by just making everybody fucking English.
Laura: But it's weird. Cause they're not all English in this. Cause Sean Connery has his classic regular accent.
Ryan: He just comes in there talking, talking.
Laura: Monk, there's no way that he's gonna try to do an italian accent.
Ryan: You have that text that is in Greece.
Laura: Then you see Christian Slater, and, you know, he's. He can't do anything. He can't do any accent. No, all he. He does is just make it a little softer.
Ryan: I don't really know.
Laura: It's not even that intense. He's just. He just speaks in american accent. Little softer. Oh, no, master.
Ryan: Yeah. I would say don't touch my weed. If there's any weakness to the film at all, it comes from Slater, unfortunately.
Laura: But it's not even. It's really. I don't. I didn't have an issue with him. You just kind of know. You see Christian Slater in this type of movie, and you go, okay, yeah, I'm not gonna bank on you too hard. No, but it's fine.
Ryan: I just wonder who else they could have had. Like, Sean Astin might have been an interesting choice.
Laura: Well, he was very young at the time. This, uh, was goonies time.
Ryan: Oh, shit. Yeah. No, you don't want that happening. Although, no, that would have been ew oh, yeah.
Laura: This is already creepy enough.
Ryan: Yeah, that's pretty.
Laura: I think he was just fine. I don't, um. I'm fine with it.
Ryan: River Phoenix.
Laura: Now, I would have been if. Yeah, that peasant girl.
Ryan: He would have also been young as well, because stand by me was an eighties movie, so he would have only been young.
Laura: Okay. Well, yeah, I don't know.
Ryan: I think we're going down a route that we don't really want to go down. Anyway, Christian, uh, Slater and this Valentina girl, they.
Laura: Oh, my gosh. It could have been Robert Downey Junior. Remember, from Tropic Thunder when he does that monk movie? The sexy monk movie?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: It could have been Robert Downey Junior. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Star qualities.
Ryan: Yeah. But he was having a rough time in these, wasn't hedgesthem.
Laura: No. He was having a great time in the eighties. The best time.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess so.
Laura: Okay. Right. Where am I? Okay. She's an animal in heat, I wrote, and she's got to get her monk on. That's what I said. She's got to get her monk on. And they get their monk on. Real, real slow and tender like. But, yeah. Yeah, there's a sex scene.
Ryan: There is a sex scene.
Laura: So it's not great. Okay. Like, the visibility here is trash, and it's so blink and you miss it type of thing.
Ryan: You get cheated out of a couple of dead dicks, too, for sure. Yeah. You don't understand why that is the case, but, yeah. Yeah, that's. You get kind of get cheated out of it little bit.
Laura: You do. Because you do see some nudity when they are in their sexual positions a bit. And then when there comes a point where she leaves. Right. Uh, post coitus, she's out of there. She's right back down the sluice, and he's left alone in the kitchen. She slides out. She's outie. And he's there on his own, and he's all naked in the kitchen.
Ryan: It's really far away.
Laura: It's super far away.
Ryan: Really far away. And it's also incredibly brief.
Laura: Brief and dark.
Ryan: Brief and dark. And I watched it on my phone because I watched it at work. And then, uh, yeah, it's just, I was like, I had to go back to be like, are we sure we can do this? But.
Laura: Oh, yeah, we've done worse.
Ryan: We have done far worse.
Laura: And this movie is good, so that's okay.
Ryan: It is a very good movie. Yeah. I will say that, uh, it's a very interesting, well written piece of cinema. With a fantastic central cast.
Laura: Um, I remember when I watched this movie for the first time. I didn't watch the whole thing. I was coming back when I was traveling for work, when I was doing fieldwork at my old job. And the plane that I was on coming home didn't have tvs or entertainment or anything, which was a bummer. But I had my laptop, and the only thing I had on there was a downloaded copy of the name of the Rose. I'm like, all right, let's watch this on the plane. And I fell asleep. And then I woke up to the sex scene that we're talking about now and the penis scene. And I had. There was a family next to me, and I remember waking up and just being very confused and then just seeing boobs and monks, and they're probably wondering what the absolute hell I was doing. And I just slammed my computer down. I'm like, okay, sorry about that. Hope you guys enjoyed.
Ryan: It's none of their fucking business anyway.
Laura: You know, it was just amusing to me that that's when I woke up. Like, I just immediately fell asleep.
Ryan: Woke up. It's like that bit in manhunter where he falls asleep and then all the. All the, uh, all the photos, like, get strewn all over the floor.
Laura: I love manhunter.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: You know we were talking about how monks take a vow of chastity, right?
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But it could be broken. It was broken. And the punishments for this varied. So it varied for different reasons, but there was actually a list of kind of rules that they would abide by. So, first, if a vow of chastity was broken, the superiors would deal with the person privately. Then he is publicly rebuked. And if he still does not reform, he's excommunicated from the monastery. But an excommunicant can return to the community through penance if he's allowed. It's very fluid, just depending on who your bosses are.
Ryan: Yeah, it sounds like fucking horseshit.
Laura: So they basically can do whatever they want as long as they go. I'm sorry.
Ryan: I'm so sorry. That's why, like, criminals, when they're fucking about to be put to death, they do it in religion.
Laura: Yeah, they do it in this movie, too.
Ryan: Well, wasn't it about the moon faced guy? Like, the moon faced monk? Wasn't he. Wasn't he doing illicit things with, like, some of the younger members there? That's why he was flagellating so much.
Laura: Yeah. He. Wasn't he having sex with boys?
Ryan: I think he was. Yeah.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Yeah, he was.
Laura: I have a little story. So there was a. This is kind of just about monks and sex in the, uh, 13th and 14th century.
Ryan: Can't wait.
Laura: Yeah. So there was a 13th century dominican friar named Albertus Magnus who wrote, uh, about a lustful monk who came to an unfortunate end. He said that, uh, having desired a woman. Desired, as in quotes, a beautiful woman 70 times. He died. His autopsy revealed that his brain had shrunk to the size of a pomegranate while his eyes had been destroyed. There was a lot of fear back then, uh, about sexually transmitted diseases and what would happen. So people were afraid to have sex. Right. But then also, you're not meant to have sex.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Okay. So then there was a french cleric in the 14th century who had sex with a prostitute, and there was a big kind of outbreak of leprosy at the time.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: So he vowed from that moment that he would never sleep with another woman, but he didn't give up sex. Instead, he admitted that in order to keep his oath, quote, I began to abuse little boys.
Ryan: Uh, fuck, yeah. How's that your reasoning, though?
Laura: So keep in mind that this solution was also, as it is looked upon today, disgusting and terrible and not. Okay, so. And that kind of rolls into the thing with chastity, because masturbation was looked upon, um, as long as you did it in moderation. Right. Because it was all about fluids in your humors. You have to release these fluids, and you have to do it certain ways. And there's certain foods that they would eat to maybe help reduce your fluids so you wouldn't have to do it as much, you know, prayers and all these things, so.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: But it kind of did become a thing where they worried that if you didn't release these fluids in a way that people would turn how that 14th century french cleric did to where they having sex with little boys.
Ryan: Jesus Christ, we are like, if Jesus was here right now and he saw stuff like that, uh, like, what do they think they. Like, what do they think he would say? They'd be like, yo, I didn't think this was. I don't think this is a good idea, guys. Like, why are you doing this in my name? Like, I don't fucking understand.
Laura: Not supposed to have sex with women.
Ryan: So, you know, I was like, guys.
Laura: I'm just following the rules.
Ryan: Guys, guys, look, we can bend the rules, but, like, don't bend them to the point of, like, abusing little boys.
Laura: Don't abuse anybody. Creeps.
Ryan: It's fucking. It's just. It's fucking disgusting.
Laura: Thank you. I'm glad I brought it up.
Ryan: Absolutely disgusting, all of it. Well, you know, you know how anti religious I am in general. Like, I just don't. It's just so. Yeah, it's so draconian and fucking. It's just. Yeah, I just. It's just such a fucking horrible state of affairs to be in. It's awful.
Laura: Oh, uh. Gosh. Yeah, I know. It's, it's really bad.
Ryan: It's gross. And it also like, it pinpoints, like you've just said, it pinpoints like some kind of, uh, some level of like continuing male, uh,
00:45:00
Ryan: trauma that like, if they're not able to have sex with women or being able to like, you know, like pleasure themselves in one way, like, they immediately just go to boys. It's always boys, it's always little boys. And it's like, well, it's like, it just seems to be like this centuries age thing that it's like, well, you know, I'm super fucked up. It's like I'm gonna fuck a boy if I'm not able to do something.
Laura: It's like, don't you love.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Don't you love organized religion?
Ryan: Well, it's obviously systematic. That's what that just says to me. It's systematic.
Laura: There you go.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So we've pinpointed it.
Ryan: We have pinpointed it. There you go.
Laura: Now we can fix it.
Ryan: Yeah. Good luck. Yeah, good luck with that one. Fixing. Fixing. Faith.
Laura: Yeah, no, fixing. Systematic. Oh, okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Okay. Anyway, let's move on. Did you know that, uh, I, uh, wanted to bring up about how books, the victorian era books were poisoned? And I was gonna just point out how, like, I know that this book, Aristotle's second volume of poetics, was poison, but that was intentional. But did you know that in the victorian era there were books that were colored with mercury, lead and arsenic to make them look better with like bright green colors?
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: But it caused lesions and cancer.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: There's actually a program out there right now, I think it's called the Poison Books program, where if people have any of these old books, they can send them in. Yeah, people don't get cancer from the books.
Ryan: I read about that in school.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. Because I got, I got taught the Crusades and stuff when I was in school and also got taught about, you know. Well, it wasn't.
Laura: Do you also have a. Do you also have a minor in medieval history?
Ryan: No, but at least in the UK, like, that stuff's a little bit more prominent. Like, it's more interesting. Medieval history.
Laura: Hell, yeah, it is.
Ryan: You know, because there's a lot of it on display in the UK. You can just go see it, and you're like, that's medieval. It's like, fuck, yeah, it is. You know?
Laura: That's cool.
Ryan: Yeah, that shit's really cool.
Laura: That's why people still find gold and stuff in their backyards.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. Still find, like. I mean, well, at least, like. Like roman stuff. Like that stuff strewn about all over the place.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Like roman artifacts and things like that. So, you know.
Laura: Well, I wanted to bring up a little bit of the end of the movie because I really laughed at it, if you. If you don't mind. I know there's no wieners in it, but.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, we're not even gonna talk about the movie because I think the movies. The movie's a really interesting thing that, like, you should. You should watch. And it's a kind of twisty, turny, sort of detective tale.
Laura: You don't want me to talk about, like, the. How I. The Bernardo thing and Saruman and the.
Ryan: Well, there's a lot of. There's a lot of fire. There's a lot of purification with fire, which, ironically, is used against them. Um, and a lot of them.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: A lot of the books that they find that are hidden away are destroyed, which is unfortunate.
Laura: Yeah, get the books.
Ryan: Get the book. But, I mean, that's the thing. Like, it's where you're like, you know, he does. He values this knowledge, which is something that I quite. Which is something I quite admire in the character, which I thought was interesting.
Laura: That's what adso said. You. You care. You value these books more than your own life. He's like, yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. Because he's thinking, what am I thinking about? The future?
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: You know, good dude. Yeah. Because his. His time is limited. Regardless, the books could last for a lifetime. So. Absolutely, you know, the books could be timeless.
Laura: Well, the end of the movie ends with the final lines that are written in the book.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Which are stat. Rosa. Pristina. No. Minne.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: No. Mina nu da tenemus. Sorry I've cursed all of you. Good luck. Bye.
Ryan: It's not that you looked at me directly in the eyes when you said it, as if, um.
Laura: You did it again. I'm gonna start whispering that to you in the night. So, basically, it just means, roughly, the ancient rose remains by its name. Naked names are all that we have because adso hid it and quit it and never talked to this woman, and peaces out on a donkey and never asks her what her name is. What a horrible piece of shit. She was probably gonna say, I'm pregnant with your little monk baby. And he's like, bye, bitch. I don't even know you. And then he says, writes in a book. I dream about her every night. I'm like, you suck.
Ryan: Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't particularly like that. I did like the fact that he's on that path, and he just, like, turns around on his donkey. They give her one more look, and I'm like, oh, he's gonna stay.
Laura: Nope.
Ryan: No, he doesn't.
Laura: She's like, what? What is happening?
Ryan: What the fuck?
Laura: What an asshole.
Ryan: Yes. Like, he valued knowledge more than. Than puss.
Laura: Well, also,
00:50:00
Laura: William of Baskerville is way more interesting. Anyway, he's probably really fun company.
Ryan: Yeah, uh, probably.
Laura: And he knows. He knows. I don't know.
Ryan: She's.
Laura: I'm not gonna say anything anyway.
Ryan: Oh, good.
Laura: Um, right. We talked about a lot of the awards that the director has won, but he did win a Caesar award for best foreign film for this film.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: And, uh, the name of the Rose also won two baftas. Sean Connery won for best actor, and Haso von Hugo won for best makeup artist.
Ryan: Yeah, good. Yeah, the makeup's actually pretty stellar in this.
Laura: Yeah, yeah. That little scraggle tooth of Ron Perlman's really freaked me out. Oh, before. Actually. Yeah. Before we wrap this up and do ratings, I did one. I wrote something funny down that Ron Perlman said about spitting in Sean Connery's eye.
Ryan: Oof.
Laura: All right, where is it? Oh, my gosh. Laura, find it fast. We're running out of time. Okay. So he said, the first time I spit in Sean Connery's eye was an unusable take because I refused to actually spit because I was so intimidated by him. So Sean goes, actually, maybe you can read it, Ryan. It'll be funnier if you read it here. Do you mind? So right here.
Ryan: Well, I need it. I need it closer to me because I need to put it in the mic.
Laura: Okay. So, yeah, read it like he would read it.
Ryan: Um.
Laura: Um.
Ryan: So Sean goes, dear boy, if you don't put something in my eye, I'll have nothing to react to. Where will that leave me? And I went, well, out in the cold, Sean. Exactly. And then Sean said, yeah, that was a pretty good shpit there.
Laura: Yeah, there we go. Thank you for that.
Ryan: That was awful. It was terrible.
Laura: I liked it. Well, no, it really made me feel like, uh. Cause apparently in that interview, Ron Perlman did a Sean Connery impression as well.
Ryan: Maybe that's something I can just start. It's like, where would that leave me?
Laura: I just like how I think it's so. He's like, dear boy, if you don't. I love it. It's very cute. So, um, anyway, so would you like to. Would you like to go first for your ratings? You want to start with your visibility and context? Rating poo.
Ryan: It's probably a one.
Laura: I'm gonna. I'm gonna go to the docking station with you there and agree. Uh, it's definitely a one.
Ryan: One. Because I don't like. I don't really have anything to add. We all heard, he kind of said it's kind of like a blink and you miss it, and it's so far away, you don't even know if it's there. And also, he's a minor, and I think that's weird.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: Also, I find that scene in general to be a little weird. I know it needs to be there, but I'm also like. I find it kind of odd, but, uh. Yeah, yeah. Uh. Uh. It's one of those. One of those moments.
Laura: I think it's interesting because, you know that I'm sure that in the book, it is massive. It is such a big, important milestone.
Ryan: Yeah. Giant character thing for him.
Laura: And because he's doing the voiceover, you know, his old self ads. Old Adso is doing a voiceover kind of telling you he's reciting the tale, basically. So. Yeah. Our narrator, in a way. And I'm interested to read the book. It's a very popular book, apparently. And I think it's like 500 pages. So I'll just, you know, I'll buy it and I'll add it to the stack of all the other books that I haven't read.
Ryan: Yeah. And you'll just leave it. It'll be like a paperweight.
Laura: Absolutely.
Ryan: The book that itself is a paperweight.
Laura: Correct.
Ryan: That's right.
Laura: All right. For the film, Ryan?
Ryan: Four.
Laura: Oh, my gosh.
Ryan: Yeah. Four's a good.
Laura: Me too.
Ryan: It's a good film.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: There's a lot of things that elevate it from being, like, a three. It's a little long. And I think Christian Slater's performance, he is young, but I don't think you get any excuse for whatsoever you're cast in a movie. I'm sorry. Um, he's one of the weakest parts of it, but he does, like, he does have moments where he shines. But the thing is, is like Sean Connery is like, I don't know if he's chewing at the scenery, but, like, he's. He's someone who, like, builds the scenery, and it's like, the shush mine. And he just, like, eats it up.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan: I feel like I'm not sharing lush with Yoosh. And then he just, like, eats it. He just, like, chews up.
Laura: I know that he said that it's okay to, like, hit women, but he's such a babe. Yeah, it's not okay. And I don't condone. Don't hit anybody.
Ryan: It's definitely not okay.
Laura: But as. As a movie star and an actor, what a babe. And you really can't take your eyes off of Sean Connery. It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter how old he is.
Ryan: No.
Laura: It could be finding Forrester. It could be anything. And you're like, sean fucking Connery.
Ryan: Well, he's really good in finding Forrester.
Laura: As well, which is the only other time he worked with F. Marie Abraham again.
Ryan: Huh?
Laura: Actually in that movie.
Ryan: Yeah. Cause he was a fucking asshole in that movie, too. Well. Ah, f. Murray Abraham, he plays a dick, like,
00:55:00
Ryan: most of the time in, like, films. He just plays type.
Laura: He doesn't like to play against type.
Ryan: No, no, it would seem not, but no, also, like, a big shout out to Ron Perlman. Cause he's, like, one of the standout roles in this as well.
Laura: Ron Perlman. Just. I'm sure that he's someone that you could meet at a convention, and he would give you a hug, and he would just be a really genuine human being.
Ryan: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that yet.
Laura: You don't? Oh, my gosh. Do I? Is he really creepy and I don't know.
Ryan: No, I think he's. I think he's just like, I'm an old man. Just like, I just need to get this done. I just want to go home.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Ryan: I think that's what that is.
Laura: I don't know. That's just what I think.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But, yeah, this film that, I gave it a four as well. This film is beautiful. It's so well done. It's. It's gorgeous. It's entertaining. And I don't know if you guys know this, but I have a minor in medieval history, so I really kind of, you know, I understood a lot of it.
Ryan: Told you she was gonna say it least twice. Yeah. Told you she was gonna say at least twice. So there you go.
Laura: Is there anything else that you wanted to drop in here.
Ryan: No.
Laura: Coming to you from a remote abbey in the dark north of Italy. I have been Laura.
Ryan: I was gonna do like a Sean I know. Been shown.
Laura: Okay. Um, don't forget to follow us on letterboxd. You can find the links to that, uh, on the Internet, you know. And on our website on thebeat.com. and on Instagram, which is on thebeat. Bitte. And, you know, we're on there. And, um, we will see you next time, Stanley goodspeed.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: All right.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess.
Laura: Fare thee well.
Ryan: Testes. Testes. Testes. This is a test. I am testing on my testes. My testes are, um. They're young.
Laura: Why don't you do testes, uh, in Sean Connery's voice.
Ryan: Testes. Testies. Testies. How'd you like those? Testes.
Laura: Testees. Nuts.
Ryan: He is for horses. Charlie Goodspeed. Um, okay. Yeah, I think we're good.
Laura: Okay.
00:57:19