The Voyeurs (2021) is the first in a new segment we've titled "Stream Peens"! You'll only find these films streaming on online platforms!
Oh boy...here we go. In a new segment we've decided to dub "Stream Peens" where we explore what multitude of streaming services have to offer that pertain to our interests, we've started with this one...THE VOYEURS!
Now, at least Ryan and Laura can come to the agreement that this film is "straight trash" as by design, as an "erotic thriller", it would be a bit trashy. But a resurgence in the mainstream appeal of the genre with 'this' as its flagship? (Scratches head in sarcastic manner) Doubtful.
On that basis, it is highly unlikely you'll be seeing anything that 'sexy' on your cinema screens anytime soon but we give this film the attention it deserves and give it the good ol' OTB treatment. Basically, one of us likes it and other hates it (for very good reason).
Ryan: Cool. None of that stuff is usable. None of that stuff is funny. Absolutely none of it.
Laura: You can't just tell me to be.
Ryan: You can't just be funny. yeah. Here we go. nicely done.
Laura: Have you thought of anything funny to say? You well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE the Pod. Shut up. The podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity and cinema. my name is well, hello there. How do you do, ladies and gents? Welcome to the show.
Ryan: Oh, God almighty. You're coming into this with coming in hot. A fervent enthusiasm, which I don't think.
Laura: I got to start off real high because I don't know where this is going to go. Real down low.
Ryan: It's going to go real low.
Laura: This skys is getting real low. did I even finish my intro? You interrupted me so hard. We like to talk about full frontal male nudity in cinema on this podcast we do hosted by me, Laura, and also by you.
Ryan: Yes, I am also here. My name is Ryan.
Laura: Ryan.
Ryan: Yes. It's great. You had to explain that there.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: yeah.
Laura: So today is the first I mean m have we done streaming peens before?
Ryan: No, this is something brand new that we've decided to do. Stream peace. No, hold on. Let's have a we think before we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Laura: We oh, dear. Oh dear.
Ryan: Is there anything that we've done that was primarily just a streaming experience? Which is, I guess, like what this is in this modern age of screaming. I wish it was screaming. in this modern age of streaming, where there's no prerequisite for a theatrical release, is there any film that we have done that is just, say, purely a, Netflix Hulu original? or in this case, an Amazon Studios production?
Laura: Not that I'm aware of. But we have done over 50 movies and I can't even think about what I did or watched yesterday.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: So if you want me to remember all these bad boys, I doubt it.
Ryan: Isn't Power of the Dog one of those that, didn't come out in the cinema?
Laura: Good job. Yeah.
Ryan: Power of the dog.
Laura: I'm looking on the list right now just so I can maybe not fuck this up right away.
Ryan: Yeah, I think here's the thing. I think let's just approach this.
Laura: What about Creep Two?
Ryan: No, that came out in the cinema. Did it not creep two. I don't know.
Laura: Either way, we're starting something new, and we're starting with this one, which is the 2021 dark comedy erotic thriller. Why did I say dark comedy? It's not dark comedy comedy.
Ryan: How is this a dark comedy?
Laura: Someone must have wrote that down wrong on the Internet. This is an erotic thriller.
Ryan: I mean, the film's a joke.
Laura: There's funny stuff in it.
Ryan: There is some fantastic line delivery, but it's really because there's carry on. I'm not sorry that we're covering this film anyway, it's not comedy.
Laura: The Voyeurs. We're talking about the Voyeurs.
Ryan: Yeah. Not to be mistaken for the countless other films that are also called Voyeurs. There's also, an Arthur Delaire short that's just called voyeurs. But this is the voyeurs. Like, this is the definitive Voyeuristic experience.
Laura: Oh, boy.
Ryan: I guess,
Laura: This film does have people that you will recognize, especially Sidney Sweeney, who plays Pippa in the film, who you've seen in Euphoria White Lotus. And she was in under the Silver Lake, which I really liked. That film with Andrew Garfield.
Ryan: Is she the one who comes out of the pool?
Laura: But she was there at the end. She was one of the ladies.
Ryan: She's one of the ladies at the end. under the Silver Lake is really hard to remember because I don't think it's particularly great.
Laura: I thought that film was very good.
Ryan: Yeah. Ah, okay.
Laura: Also starring Justice Smith as Thomas, who you might have seen in Detective Pikachu.
Ryan: Yep. He's actually one of the highlights. He's great of the film. Yeah. When, I say there's some fantastic line delivery, he makes some of the lines actually quite funny. I don't think this is a particularly well written film, but at least he kind of does the best of what he's given.
Laura: He's also in the Jurassic World movies and the new Dungeons and Dragons film.
Ryan: He is. Yeah. I was trying to kind of picture where I remember seeing him, but, yes, he's, good in this movie. I just wish, like all right, well.
Laura: Before you wish all the things that were different about the film. Let me finish.
Laura: So Ben Hardy is also in this film as Sebastian or,
Ryan: Fuck goes around calling themselves Seb. Like immediately. I'm like, immediately I'm like, you're a piece of shit. He's going to put fucking drugs in your drink. He's just going to do something. He's like, I'm seb. I'm, your mate Seb. Spoiler alert. Well, yeah, I was right, wasn't I? He fucking has the name of a date rapist.
Laura: he was archangel in X Men Apocalypse.
Ryan: Who cares who the fuck remembers?
Laura: I'm just trying to tell people where you might recognize them from.
Ryan: Movie is fucking awful.
Laura: And, Natasha Lou Bordiso as Julia, who is maybe a fresher face, but she is in Guns of Kimbo.
Ryan: Okay. Right.
Laura: I met everyone else, so I thought.
Ryan: I would give she's in another movie from the late two thousand and ten s what? guns a kimbo.
Laura: Oh, okay. You had a different one.
Ryan: No, she's in another movie from the it's an incredibly young cast.
Laura: Yeah, this is a young cast. A good looking folk.
Ryan: Okay. I mean, that's all it really has going for it is that they're all good looking. Because that's what in reality, that's what we all look like.
Laura: we're all hot.
Ryan: Yeah. We're also not young either. And I also do not want to compare myself to this group of individuals, these characters in this movie. And I put that, like, in the very commas for whatever reason. But, yeah, we're gonna all right.
Laura: Hold I'm not even done.
Laura: Okay. This film was directed by Matthew Moen, who also wrote the film. And before you dive into him what?
Ryan: I think it's Matthew. Yeah, it's Michael, isn't it?
Laura: Do we just need to start over? Jesus Christ.
Ryan: I mean, maybe you need to start over.
Laura: I mean, are you looking it up right now before I actually I've got.
Ryan: It right here it is.
Ryan: Michael Mohan. Oh, I wrote okay.
Laura: I mean sorry.
Ryan: Yeah, I mean, whatever his name is. He's, a writer director.
Laura: Sorry, matthew Moen, the director of this dark comedy. yeah, we've fire me right now.
Ryan: We've done such a fantastic job of researching this film, but there's also not a there's not a ton of stuff to research with this.
Laura: I have a lot of information here, but you're about to go into the director. I want to tell you the synopsis and tagline first.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Jump rope in me. I know I've made mistakes.
Ryan: You have made mistakes.
Laura: I've made egregious mistakes.
Ryan: And we made the collective mistake of deciding we were going to cover this movie for our new kind of, offset format thing that we called stream peens so that we could cover, like, modern movies. It was a mistake. I don't know why I seem to think like we'll get the younger crowd into liking this podcast by covering films that they maybe enjoy. And I'm like, when this came.
Laura: Out, it was exciting. It was exactly the type of movie I wanted to see. And quite a few of our friends have seen it as well. I don't know if they actually finished the film.
Ryan: It's very easily accessible because it's an Amazon's original, effectively an Amazon Studios film.
Laura: This movie's not bad. Okay, synopsis. You could kind of imagine from the title of the film, when Pippa and Thomas move into their dream apartment, they notice that their windows look directly into the apartment opposite, inviting them to witness the volatile relationship of the attractive couple across the street. But what starts is a simple curiosity turns into full blown obsession with increasingly dangerous consequences. And, the tagline is, how far will you go for one more?
Ryan: Okay, on to you.
Laura: Tell me about Matthew.
Ryan: Okay, so, Michael Mohan is a writer, director, and producer. there's not a ton on him online that I've seen. There is obviously his IMDb.
Laura: It's a new kid on the streets.
Ryan: There is also a vimeo channel, but I don't know if it's him. but, yeah, there's plenty of artsy photos of him and behind the scenes stuff, and, like, photos of him, at festivals and stuff like that. So if you want to have a little dive into his IMDb, you're likely to see that, but there's not an awful lot else. but really, we're going to cover his films. because it's literally all the information that I have. and I'm just going to cover them all. There might be other opportunities to maybe cover some of his other stuff. Although the majority of the stuff here is short films. we can do shorts. And he's been at some point he's been making yeah, okay. We can maybe do a collection of shorts. I don't know. Anyway, short peens. I don't know. This is going to be really hard to get through.
Ryan: but let's just rattle this off and then let's just get into this because I have a page that I'm looking at right now, which is of my notes, and it looks like the rantings of like, a madman.
Laura: It is pretty intimidating.
Ryan: It looks like a page from John DOE's. Like one of John DOE's notebooks in seven. Like, that's what it looks like.
Laura: Mine's full bullet points.
Ryan: Yours is all well as usual. It's tidy. It's organized. It's on a laptop. I like to write things down into such a fashion that it almost becomes illegible. but here we go. so his filmography consists of Trek. It's a short from 2003, la de Tinsta. Well, I'll say it in the way that I would say it as an Uneducated Scotsman la Dentista, which is a short from 2004 Initiation, which was a short from 2006 casual Encounters, which was the short from 2007. One too many mornings from 2010. Now, because that didn't say it was a short. I'm assuming that was his first feature film. And I'm going to say and just put it out there, that's maybe his debut feature film release after that is X Sex. short from 2011. Really don't like the title to that. Save the Date from 2012, which I also think is a feature because it doesn't have ah, sh. Written next to it. When I put it down, you didn't look. I wasn't really that interested. This is how we die a short from 2013. pink grapefruit. This is a short from 2015. oh, no, sorry. This Is How we Die is a short from 2013. Pink Grapefruit is a short from 2015. Everything sucks with a big exclamation. Mark was a TV show from 2018. And The Voyeurs is obviously his most recent piece of work from 2021.
Laura: Wow, this is going really well.
Ryan: I think we're allowed to not have the level of polish. I'm not doing this again. I'm not repeating myself again. me making a mistake with reading my notes does not go as far as you typing in Matthew Mohan as opposed to M Michael, because that's inexcusable.
Laura: I even did that the day before I was you had all early and getting all of my ducks in a row. Getting my Matthews and Michaels.
Ryan: Yeah. Honestly, you had all the time in the world.
Laura: I probably wrote it 15 times. It's going to be a nightmare.
Ryan: Okay, so to anybody listening, if she does say Matthew, it means we're talking about Michael.
Laura: oh, wait, I have a Michael down.
Ryan: My oh my goodness gracious.
Laura: Oh, god, just put me down.
Ryan: I don't expect anyone to take our opinions seriously to m take it fully seriously because of the way that we conduct ourselves on a day to day basis. but I guess having a good time. Yeah, I guess so. we've covered quite a lot of good films in a row, though, so we were bound to hit upon a doozy at some point.
Laura: You keep saying that, but then we're back in our classic seats where I enjoy something more than you. But that's because this kind of shit is m made for me. This guy called me up and said, what do you want? And then he pooped this out. I'd be like, great, that's fine.
Ryan: Yeah, but you did you referred to this as straight trash.
Laura: Yeah, I like trash.
Ryan: You do?
Ryan: I think there's some very lofty claims that the filmmaker is making certainly about the revival or his trying of the revivalist idea of, bringing back the erotic thriller.
Laura: I have one full page that I could dive into before we even get into the film about how this kind of came to be and Michael's obsession with erotic thrillers and the decline and potential revival of erotic thrillers.
Ryan: I just can't ever I'm going to.
Laura: Talk about it at some point today.
Ryan: Yeah, I think, well, you know what? Get into that and then I can give my ten cents on it. And then we can kind of get into the meat and bones of what this is. Yeah, that's fine.
Laura: So Jennifer Salke, who's the head of Amazon Studios, was apparently chatting with Nicole Kidman. And they were having a conversation about why there weren't erotic thrillers being made anymore. So this is around the same time that Michael Moen was, going around. He had the voyeurs on spec, shopping that bad boy around. He said he would go in and talk about my passion for erotic thrillers and how it doesn't make sense that these movies stopped existing. And he had written a 93 page erotic thriller movie journal. And he's just walking around with this stuff in a bag. Right. So they ended up meeting. She wanted an erotic thriller. He had this bad boy in his pocket. So this film got fast tracked. So in terms of when I think and I've kind of tried to research it a little bit more like why the erotic thriller genre started to decline, especially in the mainstream, because you get them all the time, but they start to become more like Lifetime dramas or streaming films or mid tier budget type of movies. Right.
Ryan: well, they stopped being profitable at the box office.
Laura: Right. They weren't these big bad boys anymore.
Ryan: That's not because they weren't making any money. It's because they weren't making bank like Fatal Attraction or Basic Instinct did. They were effectively phenomenons that came out in the early ninety s. Yeah, like.
Laura: Late 80s, mid 80s, early 90s. But then around the mid ninety s, it did start to decline. So you had like box office bombs, jade, unfortunately, which I think is awesome, actually showgirls stuff like that. It just started to not and you're right, not be very profitable. But then it was weird because in 2002, Adrian Lyn made Unfaithful, which was massively successful.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And Diane Lane was nominated for an Academy Award.
Ryan: It's only one film out, of a seat, because showgirls was incredibly expensive.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: And let's not beat around the bush. Like, you can have as much fun watching that movie as you like. It is a bad movie, but it's so fun.
Laura: It's such an incredibly fun film to watch.
Ryan: But I'm not saying that it is not fun. It is a product of a time and your mind's slightly blown while you're watching it. But objectively, let's be serious, it's not a good movie.
Laura: But that doesn't mean that I don't know, Unfaithful is also trash. It's pure trash as well. But, it's super enjoyable to watch and engaging.
Ryan: I mean, let me put something out there. The erotic thriller, just by virtue of what it is, is inherently trash. And they always are, they always will be. But the thing is, the reason why certain films of that type were successful is they are handled with at least a monochrome of class. Like, Basic Instinct is an interesting story from start to finish, and it's handled incredibly well by Verhoeven, with some really good performances in it. And Fatal Attraction is just an incredibly gripping thriller. Like, it's just a very good film and it has some very interesting stuff. And again, a great central performance by Michael Douglas, who's obviously at this point, almost getting typecast in these sorts of roles.
Laura: Hell yeah.
Ryan: But they're also some of the best roles that he's ever taken up. And I would even go as far as to say, like, the rest of obviously Adrian Lin's stuff. Nine and a Half Weeks is like, okay, take it with what you will.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: but certainly Indecent, Proposal is another movie, which I also think has some really good performances in it.
Laura: At least that film as well. Starts a conversation like, would you sleep with Robert Redford for a million dollars?
Ryan: Probably. Are you asking me? Right, yeah, yeah, probably. I mean, for a million dollars for life. I mean, it would be a story to I would, I would definitely tell that story on the podcast, like Beat for Beat, how that came to be.
Laura: Is it under the like is it a full million or is it getting taxed?
Ryan: I mean, at that point, I don't think the money matters. I think you have the money, but you're asking me deep and quite probing questions about what was it like to have sex with Robert Redford?
Laura: Was he tender?
Ryan: I mean, I could only assume that I kind of let him lead the.
Laura: well, you have even new ones that are coming out now that are just being pooped out into the streaming system. Like Deep Water, for example, which was Adrian Lin's first film since Unfaithful, which.
Ryan: Isn'T a bad film per se, but it's not of the quality of his previous stuff. Even, like, Unfaithful, I think, is pretty much like, straight down the line, straight down the middle. But there's some really interesting stuff in that film.
Laura: I think that film is great. I think if it had had maybe a little it was a smaller budget. It was, like 49 million. You're probably just paying Ben Affleck and Anada Armis for the most part, but it was set to be, released in theater, got pulled from theater, and then just dumped out onto Hulu, so it didn't get the kind of reception that it probably deserved.
Ryan: The theatrical landscape, like, as it sits and stands right now, is incredibly fraught with a variety of pratt falls. and I mean, a lot of what you see in the cinema, I'm not incredibly drawn to. We're seeing a pattern of we have superhero movies that are getting pulled out, and they're obviously, they are designed in their nature to be the biggest films of all time.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: And any film that follows in the wake of those sorts of films has to be of the same sort of ilk. They have to be special effects heavy. They have to feel, in some sort of way, muted and not controversial in the least. They have to feel like they're almost, like, improperly balanced in terms of their moral and their bias. And I would even go that far as to say their racial balance and their acute kind of sense, of being acutely aware, of just being incredibly mediocre just to sue everybody.
Laura: Well, you have to be diluted in order to please, everybody at least a little bit. So when you have films like this, this isn't for everybody. This isn't the when I was younger and your parents rent a movie and you're not allowed to watch it right. We don't have those movies anymore. Like, these are for adults. It's adults night. This is an adult's time at the theater.
Ryan: Yeah. There's no middle road, like, middle range kind of budgeted film anymore.
Laura: Everything's for everybody. It seems like when it goes into theater these days, unless you have, like.
Ryan: A horror film, if you've definitely got a film that's, like, an incredibly low budget, you're lucky to even I mean, I think about the things that we see at the film festival and stuff when that comes to town. That's maybe the only time you ever see that film. The idea of that being on a streaming platform at some point. I mean, it's just going to be devoured in a sea of other stuff that effectively is built for those streaming platforms. And that is always their final port of call. And nine times out of ten, that stuff isn't particularly good. That's why it's on the streaming platform. And because of the open gate policy of a lot of these streaming platforms, you kind of just find that's where that stuff goes. and certainly you're not going to get an erotic thriller at this point anyway, competing with, say, the likes of Fast Ten, Indiana Jones, Mission Impossible Seven, I think it is, because they're not going to have a budget of almost over $250 to $500 million. There is no way that's ever going to happen.
Laura: as an example with something that's a little maybe a bit of an out. Definitely a bit of an outlier is recently I went and saw Sanctuary at the theater. And as soon as it came out, I think Neon put that out, which is kind of your psychosexual erotic type thriller, cat and mouse type of crazy.
Ryan: Shit that's Neon's like bread and butter.
Laura: Anyway, which is totally I'm so down. Super, super down. And I was excited to be able to go see that in the theater. But I made sure I'm going to go see this the weekend it comes out. Because that bad boy is gone.
Ryan: They're gone so fast.
Laura: Yeah. You don't get the chance to enjoy that in theater. I loved it. there was a guy snoring down in the front row. It was amazing. I had a great time. I didn't fall asleep. I thought it was thrilling.
Ryan: It was like it was like when we went to go see Master Gardener. That was the only week it was available in a cinema that we had to drive at least 30 minutes to get to, go see a movie. And I mean, that film's fine.
Laura: I'll drive anywhere for Paul, I guess.
Ryan: So that film's fine. But you can tell why something like that is not going to get the level of coverage that say a lot of other modern films get. And I mean, I like that we use words like, ah, a dilution, like mediocrity. because it's not like some of.
Laura: These things aren't know. I do want to go see Mission Impossible, even though Tom Cruise is a super weirdo. I'm super excited to see Indiana Jones, obviously not just because I'm an archaeologist, but because it's freaking Jones.
Ryan: oh. Let's grow in a little bit at that one, listeners.
Laura: I'm an archaeologist. oh.
Ryan: Just so you're aware, I'm a scientist.
Laura: Did you know that? I'm a scientist.
Ryan: Yeah. Fucking give me a break.
Laura: He's like the worst archaeologist.
Ryan: Yeah, it's your passive aggressive nonsense where it's just like, well, Ryan, you only have a film degree. Well, I'm actually a scientist.
Laura: I'm a scientist and a film lover.
Ryan: If you told the listeners exactly what you do on a day to day basis, it's like, yeah, you're not looking for the fucking like that's not the case. And that's not to say that Indiana Jones did a fantastic job either.
Laura: No, I'm not like an antiquarian. I'm not going out there back in the stealing shit from Pompei with my old rich friends.
Ryan: Yeah, that's true.
Laura: Come on.
Ryan: Yeah. You're not like the London Museum.
Laura: yeah, this is mine. This belongs in a museum. But not in your country. In their country. Can we have it back? Absolutely not.
Ryan: No. We have to teach all of the white folks in our country about your culture. So no, this is ours now.
Laura: You did steal it from us. No. Go fuck yourself.
Ryan: We are really dodging talking about this.
Laura: Okay, I'm ready.
Ryan: We really are.
Laura: I have a lot of things okay, I'm going to start. Ready?
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Start talking about this movie. So the idea for this film initially was kind of birthed when Moen was visiting a friend who had just moved into a loft in downtown La. And I guess he looked out of the window and across the street there was a couple wandering around totally naked. And he says to his friend, like, do you know that they're naked? And he says, yeah, they're naked all the time. We just all coexist here. And his friend had these binoculars and said, yeah, you'd want to take a look? And he's like, no. He said he wanted to, but he shouldn't. So that's kind of where this came about, which I totally understand. they ended up filming it in Montreal just because they couldn't find a loft space large enough that would make sense in La. Because as you could tell, most of the other characters, like Sebastian and Julia, didn't have cameras inside their loft. They were filmed from the exterior. So they didn't have, that kind of camera directly in front of them to act to.
Ryan: Right.
Laura: So they were kind of acting alone, which was awkward for them. let's see, what else do I have? We can talk about the voyeurs. I mean, we're going to talk about it anyway. We've seen it in a few different films. Shame had a moment where they're having sex against the window in that tall building and incredibly different. I'm trying to make connections.
Ryan: Do you think Michael Mohan ever saw Rear Window?
Laura: Yes, he did. He said that obviously other erotic thrillers inspired the film, but also Rear Window, as well as Coppola's, The Conversation, Blow Up, and Clue.
Ryan: Yeah. he knows things.
Laura: He has a 93 page erotic thriller.
Ryan: Journal, which is also the minute you bring that up, I'm just like, I.
Laura: Want to read that journal.
Ryan: That's weird as fuck.
Laura: I don't think it's weird. Weird after my own heart, I think until I find out he's done something.
Ryan: If he knew this much about erotic thrillers, why the fuck did he make one so bad? I, don't understand. It's a terrible film. It is a terrible film. It is an assault on the senses.
Laura: Like on your eyeballs.
Ryan: We're going to go through it. But you know what? The film starts with? this nice shot where, it kind of tracks in. You look into a window and Sweeney's changing. And she closes the curtains quickly. She's like, someone's looking at me. And then the title comes up. And then there's this title sequence, which is just a whole bunch of macro shots of, eyes and stuff.
Laura: Because obviously really nice. It's really cool looking stuff.
Ryan: Looks cool. It's just like here's the thing. Could you have a more kind of trite motif for a movie that's effectively about watching people, where it's like, well, what would this character be? It's like, oh, an optometrist.
Laura: What?
Ryan: They do ophthalmologist either way.
Laura: A lot of time researching how much they would make in order to because we were bored. In order to afford that loft.
Ryan: Yeah, we were bored. yeah.
Laura: No, because the Ophthalmologists make like $300,000 a year and an optometrist makes about 100 grand.
Ryan: Yeah. So they're doing fine. I mean, it's just a studio apartment that they're in.
Laura: And they're massive loft.
Ryan: It's a huge studio apartment. and it is nice. It's like the nicest thing. The visuals in the film. The one thing I will say is the visuals in the film. The film does look nice. It's not distinctive from, say, other films. But again, I feel like it's just another example of those types of films where it's like, the overabundance of shots and cutting those shots together completely negates the sense of blocking and actors in a scene and stuff like that. I don't really enjoy it that much. But anyway, enough of that.
Ryan: But there's a whole bunch of shots of eyes at the beginning of the movie to, I guess, some modern music. Like, this is a film. Eyes without a face It's definitely a film from the 2020s. Let's put it that way. yeah. The music choices I'm not a massive fan of.
Laura: And once again, Laura's on the other side of the fence going, I kind of liked the music.
Ryan: Of course. Well, you would do because you love to be contrarian.
Ryan: One of the things that I hated and I wish the minute the film started, was that there's a shot on an eye and there's an eye transition. And it transitions into what is like this dome in the city, as if it's like this seamless thing. And I look at it and I'm like a part of my chest, like, starting to tighten. And I started to feel all cringey. It's so jarring. And I was like, I'm like, I hope this isn't the rest of the movie.
Laura: Well, how did you feel about the. Transition and the cuts from the eye to the eggs, which is like a whole unsheyan andaloo like type of vibe. And it happens three times at least.
Ryan: Yeah. Because again, it's an incredibly tired I mean, it's just foreshadowing to what happens at the end of the movie.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Which, again, is like, when you get there, it's like that meme of Jackie Chan where he's just like, my head is full of fuck. Like, by the time you get like, you're like, what is is if you don't have an issue with stereotypical depictions of members of the Gen Z generation, then this movie is probably for you.
Laura: I don't know, man. I think about I put myself in these people's shoes. If we are living in a loft apartment and there's people in a full bone zone 90% of the time across the way, it probably would escalate in a similar way. It would stop at a certain point. Obviously, we're not going to become obsessed with these people. It's not going to go to the extremes that this film does. But there is a point where I'm like I kind of am, with them. It's like, oh, no, we shouldn't look. Oh, maybe we should look just a little, but maybe they kind of want us to look because all the windows are, like, wide open. Let's get binoculars, et cetera. I could see that being a thing to a point where then I would just get curtains because I'm annoyed that these people won't stop fucking.
Ryan: So, if anyone out there has listened to the Conan the Barbarian commentary with, obviously Arnold and John Milius and stuff like that, you will find that Arnold basically comments on exactly what is happening within the film itself, where it's like, I blood my sword. I smash him in the head, and all this sort of stuff. And it's great. It's one of the most brilliant pieces of commentary on a film other than, I think, Ben Affleck's on Armageddon.
Laura: the Zardaw's commentary is also very good.
Ryan: Yes. But I will say there is never a moment of silence in this. There's every single moment is bombarded with it's like an auditory assault. And here's the thing and this is the kicker, and this is why I was just like, sometimes dialogue should be spading because they're literally looking at this couple across the way. And, there's a camera flash, and there's a model, and the guy's holding a camera, and justice goes, is he a photographer?
Laura: Yeah, there's a few moments where you go, I can see that. What I, think that's just his character. And I'll chalk it up to that.
Ryan: But the thing is, it happens all the time.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: And you're like and this is where I start to see the differences between modern filmmaking and let's say filmmaking that isn't from the least films that have come before, understood that it was a visual medium and then you don't have to comment on everything that's going on because then it becomes overstimulating. And that's where I end up being like, well, is this a piece of art or is this a piece of content? Where it's kind of just like you feel like you're just kind of getting too much ah all at once. There's no sense of balance within it.
Ryan: And that's why I kind of bring that up, is that there are films that have done this before and I talked about Rear Window. There's a real sense of delicacy within even like there are moments in Rear Window that feel so much more intimate because there's like a deafening silence around.
Laura: yeah.
Ryan: Like it feels weird when James Stewart can look outside of his window and he can see a woman dressing or undressing in a window and you're like, he's not supposed to be doing that with this. I, guess there's a relatability to being like, well, we've all had moments where we've caught something in a window that we were never meant to see. Because there's an expectation of privacy within your own home. Yes, but it kind of starts to be skewed and then kind of put on its head, like the longer this goes on, where there's a sense of logic that's completely lost from just having a sense of curiosity that's going on in this particular situation, which then kind of changes to an obsession. But then it's also kind of like this weird comment on because of the world that we live in and because of the expectation of this particular generation of people, right, let's say generation of young people, inverted commas, is that we live in an age where there is no privacy because everyone's continually putting themselves out there. And there's that message that's put out in this film as much as it's kind of clouded by the countless twists and turns that kind of like I mean, honestly, I felt like Reagan in The Exorcist. I thought my head was going to turn all the way around.
Laura: It was a twist on twist on twist and it's too much situation.
Ryan: Way too much.
Laura: There's one twist that could have been taken out at least.
Ryan: At least. And it's like I tend to do this thing where I'm watching a movie and I start to guess what's going to happen.
Laura: I did like that because you were very wrong.
Ryan: I was wrong. But then when stuff did start to happen, that's when I start shouting at.
Laura: The TV, sensory overload for me, I must say it's a little bit because they don't stop talking in the film. And then I got you over here yelling about how they don't stop talking.
Ryan: Won't shut the fuck up. Yeah, but the thing is, it happens so much that obviously things you're meant to listen to, you don't catch. And you're like, well, m was that supposed to be important? Because 90% of the dialogue means nothing. Like, it means absolutely nothing, except for.
Laura: This one particular moment when the voyeurism is escalating to a point where they need to know more. Both of them as a couple. Pippa and Thomas want to know more. They've got the visuals, they've got the binoculars, but they want to hear what's going on. And this is also affecting their sexual relationship to a point where it's turning into their own personal kink to watch them and almost, in a way, kind of almost recreate what they're doing on that side. And then Pip is trying to match, up orgasms with that situation, but it's not working, as well. So this is just something that is really affecting their whole life and their relationship, but together at this point, they still want to know more. And so as you're talking about, there's a lot of information that's being said that you're not catching some of it. I think you were either talking over it, but it was this really important plot point in terms of this insane thing that they tried to do, which was like, a laser detection sound reflection that they were just talking about casually at brunch with a couple of friends.
Ryan: So, to go back to your previous point there, that is the most interesting part is where the voyeurism is this sexual thing, as opposed to just being like a curiosity.
Laura: I'm down with that. Because if it had just stopped there, if they're like, oh, this is our kind of a thing we didn't know that we were into, is like kind of getting off on seeing other people, enjoying their pleasures from across the way. I don't really see anything necessarily too wrong in that, in a way.
Ryan: No, I don't. That is something that I would have understood and I would have gotten behind.
Laura: If it had stopped.
Ryan: If it had yeah.
Laura: Then that's not the movie.
Ryan: Yeah, that's not the movie. I would have gotten behind it and I would have understood it, where it's kind of like she's not getting the sexual gratification from her partner, even with this new introduction. And she's like, obsessed with this man. And then she's trying to insert herself into this man's life after realizing that, well, he's a cheat. He's cheating on his wife, actively cheating on his wife. And she'll pretend to be someone else to insert herself into that situation so that she can get the sexual gratification out of it. Which, again, this is not what happens in the movie. It's something that I was as we're talking about it now, would have made the film slightly more interesting. But there is also kind of nonsensical things. And we'll get back to what you were saying there in a second about the fucking lasers. Right. but there's a moment where she buys binoculars so she can get a clearer look of what's going on. And I'm going to be 100% fucking honest. The binoculars do not help in the fucking slightest. It is literally just there. So they can do a Targets esque sniper scope thing where you see things a little bit more clearly in a medium close up, when you saw everything perfectly fine from the distance of which probably is less than, say, fucking, what, 20ft.
Laura: Well, in terms of maybe their voyeuristic sexy kink that they're trying to get down with, maybe she needs a little bit more detail. She needs to see a little bit more.
Ryan: She needs to see it go a little closer up. She wants to see it go in there's like this weird line that she says where she goes, well, they know that we can see them, so why would we not be looking at them with the binoculars? And I'm like, what? Yeah, a bit much. It's this nonsensical thing where you're like, where the dialogue starts to pull you out a wee bit. And you're like, well, why the fuck did you say that? And second of all, what the fuck does that mean? And it's like, well, I would have a little bit more respect for this situation if it was as black and white as, wow, I actually find myself getting turned on by looking at other people have sex from across the way. Which isn't really like this isn't kind of like this weird gray area anyway. Lasers.
Laura: Well, I mean, in terms of the binoculars and they want us to look it's kind of a way of saying they're asking for it, which is pretty gross. Lasers.
Ryan: Yeah, lasers.
Laura: So I did some research on this laser thing yes, as I would perfect. So a, ah, laser microphone is what they're trying to reenact where you shoot a laser in. And in their way of explaining it, it has to bounce off of something like a mirror bounce back, and then it's like the vibrations that are moving through create, the sound. And it's not as simple as they make it sound, or as they explain it. And in ways it's actually more simple. But I think you need a lot more equipment to do it. But it doesn't matter. So, what it does is it uses a laser to detect sound vibrations in a distant object. And you can use a window or a picture in a room to do this. But in reality, a laser microphone doesn't need a mirror. It reflects off of the front of glass, which is the advantage of a laser microphone. So it doesn't require access to a room to listen to. It like you don't have to plant a bug. and in this movie, passing the laser through the window in both directions would actually probably cancel out any information that the sound wave would give you.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: and yes, this, particular sort of technology was developed by Leon Theraman in the Soviet Union around 1947, when, he developed and used the Burn Eavesdropping system. Creator of theraman creator of the theraman, which is one of the first electronic music instruments.
Ryan: Yes, it was used quite notably by David Boy for the beginning of, Space Oddity.
Laura: Whoever thought we'd get there?
Ryan: Who knows?
Laura: That's what I'm here for.
Ryan: it works.
Laura: I like how they do it. I will suspend my reality and belief for the stupidest shit. And I just want to get into it. I know it's dumb, but I'm like, yeah, sure. Fucking point a laser at that thing and listen to their conversations. It's interesting. But the thing that they have to do in order to make it work is they have to oh, gosh. It's so ridiculous. But I loved it. they noticed that they're having like a Halloween party across the way.
Ryan: Yeah. Ah.
Laura: So then they I'm just like thinking octa plan.
Ryan: I'm just thinking of ways of how we can improve the film. The moments where I'm being quiet. I'm thinking of ways in which the film should have been written.
Laura: Well, they go in and they dress both like the Hamburglar one stupid.
Ryan: Who the fuck also has their part? Like you dress both up as the fucking Hamburglar? Yeah. It was obvious they had to wear masks because they didn't want them potentially being right. But like, how many other I mean, what did they only have the licensing for the fucking Hamburglar? Like they couldn't pick, I don't know, fucking Zorro or any of the number of other countless fucking band or a fucking Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. It just looks stupid. Also, she looked dumb as the Hamburglar. Justice looked better. I don't know what it was, but.
Laura: I thought they both looked good.
Ryan: I don't know.
Laura: She had that little wig on. I liked it.
Ryan: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.
Laura: Sexy Hamburglars.
Ryan: It's weird. It's weird. Weird. It's rubbish. Anyway, carry on.
Laura: The part that cracked me up, which is just it's incredibly stupid. But they made names for them, right? Because they don't know who these people are. They don't know their names. So they named them Brent and Margot because she totally looks like a Margot. And then when they go to the Halloween party, she's actually dressed like Margot from the Royal Tenenbaums, which of course, as the twisty twisty know, we find out why she ended up doing whatever.
Ryan: Well, they're yeah, they're listening in, obviously, to what they're this is a reciprocal a reciprocal creep. Yeah. Once we get like this, we'll break it down later.
Laura: But yeah, she knows. They know everything.
Ryan: Really? Give a fuck. Honestly. Yeah.
Laura: So it's just that little moment that kind of made me laugh, which in the moment when you're watching and you don't know what's going on, you're like, how the hell did that happen? Well, you're tenenbaum.
Ryan: Yeah, well, again, it's like this over obsession with Wes Anderson as well that we're seeing now that at least it's.
Laura: One of the good ones.
Ryan: Well, it's one of the only good ones. That's the thing. That's the joke. There's only one.
Ryan: Here's the thing. And this is where I feel like the story itself falls relatively flat for me, is that I don't understand or find any sort of justification for the amount of interest that they have in this couple. Because here's the thing. It really boils down to this. It is a photographer who behind his wife's back, and we see him fuck his wife, right? And we know it's his wife. Or at least there's some allusion to the fact that it's his wife. Right? Although how would they know? I'm kind of they were trying to figure that out.
Laura: They were trying to figure it out earlier. They're like, it could be this, could be that, or whatever. But I think they end up finding that out through lasers.
Ryan: Okay? So either sounds insane, either way, you're kind of figuring it out with them. and you're also kind of like, I would have gave up well before this moment because the interest in it is effectively it's a photographer who has a wife and he's having sex with his models behind his wife's back. So at the very worst, he's an adulterer. At the very, very worst, yeah. And that is it.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: End of. And and the pattern just kind of is this cyclical thing. It keeps on going. And the obsession comes from just trying to out, this man to his wife.
Laura: Well, because it levels up at a point as well, because the wife ends up going to Pippa's office where she works and gets an eye exam. And then the wife is trying to start this friendship and relationship with Pippa, which is super awkward. So then because of this friendship that's evolving between the two of them, she feels that she has a duty to inform her that her husband's doing a.
Ryan: It'S, even though it's none of.
Laura: Her business, which Thomas, her boyfriend, tells her a million times. This is none of your know if you're going to keep creeping and doing this. Because what happens kind of around this moment is their relationship starts separating, where Thomas isn't interested anymore in watching it because he's a normal human being who has other things to deal with in his life. And Pippa is just obsessing over this window like he would come home. She's, like, got her binoculars sitting in the corner, and then she'll put her binoculars down and pretend she was on her phone and she just can't get enough.
Ryan: it's a weird, ah ass thing, like the escalation of her because I just don't believe it. I don't believe there's that level of interest there. And it's a real kind of detriment to the writing of the film that I'm just like I don't fully understand why she's still as interested as she is.
Laura: I think it's because that dude can pork man. I think she's obsessed with the pork.
Ryan: Yeah. Which is why you kind of think, like, if it's going to be this erotic thriller because this film's not erotic, it doesn't feel sexy.
Laura: There are some moments that are all right.
Ryan: I mean, it doesn't, to me, feel sexy. So there's parts of me that are like there are parts of me because.
Laura: This isn't your kink. And that's okay.
Ryan: Voyeurism inherently is a kink. And it is derived from, obviously, the sexual pleasure of watching people. Right. Or deriving a sexual interest in watching people. And it's like there seems to be kind of like a crucial misstep in the pathing of this character that, to me, doesn't really make a lot of sense. It gets there eventually, but I kind of would have preferred it told slightly differently. And this film's almost 2 hours long. It is way too long. But it's also like I feel like her interest in it it's just a little bit backwards. Like she's focusing on the wrong thing. She's, like, wanting to out the man, but then it's later revealed that she wants to have sex with them, which isn't the case when you watch the film. It doesn't make any sense.
Laura: Well, I think it little by little because she starts envisioning herself in their lives. So when his wife is gone, she sees herself in the room where he's having, like, threesomes. And she's just putting herself in this situation even though she's not involved at all. She's, like, having these fantasies about it. But yeah, it kind of seems for a moment that she just wants to help the wife, but that's not really the case. It's like a backwards yeah.
Ryan: It's a real kind of weird conflict in the story where yeah. You know, like, if it was just a little simpler, the film would be m so much better.
Laura: Don't Thomas and Pippa talk about it at some point where she's like, wouldn't you want to know? And he's like, no, I wouldn't want to know.
Ryan: No, we're doing a cheat.
Laura: No, honestly, I wouldn't want to know either.
Ryan: Who gives a fuck? Like, who genuinely cares?
Laura: I'd be like, let me keep living my life. That is way too much trouble.
Ryan: Yeah. It's also like, you're going to do.
Laura: A cheat, keep it, like, really secret.
Ryan: And also not interested. Someone deciding they want to be this grass right. Is not sexy. It's not in any of the level of interest I have in a sexy thriller. I don't care. I don't give a, fly.
Laura: I just want to keep watching it. Why interrupt all the sexiness that you're getting? All this free, sexy visual content.
Ryan: I'm going to tell on him.
Laura: I'm going to do this.
Ryan: Why you're cheating on your wife?
Laura: She does the dumbest thing. She does the dumbest thing where she somehow wirelessly connects to their printer and is just typing up messages and printing them off to their printer.
Ryan: You know, that's been a prank at some point. And someone's done that. and they're like, I can see you. I saw you doing a poo. Something's definitely happened when all this stuff starts. Because the thing is, all these things are happening and stuff will come to head and stuff.
Ryan: There's also a reference to Casablanca. Do you remember the Casablanca reference that they do in the movie when she comes into the eye clinic? Do you remember?
Laura: No, tell me.
Ryan: So basically, I hate it because Sweeney starts the sentence and then justice finishes it. And I hate it. And it goes, of all the eye clinics in the world. And he goes, she walks into mine.
Laura: Oh, right.
Ryan: And I'm like, oh, fuck off. Like, genuinely annoying in that I don't hate it. Well, in Casablanca, it makes sense, right? Fucking Rick's Tavern, he does not expect to see his ex lover in his particular gin joint in that particular part of the world. Obviously, in Morocco, right? But here, obviously, if the woman's living in Montreal, where's she going to go to get her big city to get her eyes deep, I but the line is in the world. It's not like she's going to fucking Hong Kong to go get her fucking eyes tested and trying to figure it out that way. Jesus Christ. And I mean, yeah. I mean, again, it's another one of those throwaway lines where you just kind of pulled out a little bit. And you're like, well, the fuck does that mean?
Laura: I liked it fine.
Ryan: Anyway, the poor woman, she pulls a fucking used condom out of the trash. And there's, a massive gap in the story that I've got written down here because I think I lost a lot of my interest.
Laura: Would you like me to fill in the gap? Fill in the gap?
Ryan: Just like, no.
Laura: They get Sebastian filled in the gaps.
Ryan: No. She pulls a condom out of the trash. And the next thing we know is, the woman they've been spying on, she's dead. She's done a silly suicide.
Laura: She's done a silly old suicide.
Ryan: She's done a silly old suicide. And Sweeney and justice, their relationship is over.
Laura: Yeah. That I hated so much.
Ryan: Because I, am leaving. We are done.
Laura: He's like, you did this. You killed her. So now I'm leaving. I'm like, you're not like, imagine how she feels if she does feel responsible for this silly suicide. Because she did involve herselves in their lives when she shouldn't have. But for her boyfriend, her long term boyfriend lover, and live in partner is just like, go fuck yourself. I'm leaving because you are doing this thing. I mean, it should have been a longer conversation. But we did need this to happen so that we could get to the well, I do want to talk about the scene before we get to the.
Ryan: Penis scene, the bar scene.
Laura: The bar scene.
Laura: The only thing I want to talk about the bar scene is because the drink the drink, yeah, because I thought it was interesting.
Ryan: I mean, you're going to need a drink if you're watching this movie. Certainly if you're watching it, with a level, of interest that I had.
Laura: So she sees that, I think she sees that he goes to this bar and what's it called again? Barley Royale. Barley Royale. So she goes into this bar, the.
Ryan: Royal Bar, for anybody.
Laura: Yeah, because obviously anyway, he comes over. It's crazy how he just kind of comes over. She's sitting on the other side of the bar at a table with her back to him. Obviously, she wants to be involved with.
Ryan: would I would call it interesting, but I found it incredibly jarring. But then when he sits down, there's this really kind of weird, uncomfortable close up that Michael likes to use in particular moments in this film, which I don't really appreciate. There's a moment where they're all in the cafe and they're all having a big conversation. And the opening shot is this weird kind of close up. It's a close up with like a really wide lens, like a twelve millimeter or something. So, it extends all of the features in the front of the face and it pulls everything back. And you have this really kind of wide thing. And every time you see it and we cut to it, like immediately I fucking jumped out of my seat because it's not a good shot.
Laura: Overall, I didn't mind that particular shot in this moment because it is the very first time they're seeing each other face to face in a real moment.
Ryan: It's deliberately jarring. Yeah, but it works in this moment. It just didn't work in some of the moments previous where you're kind of just like, whoa. Jesus. Fuck.
Laura: Well, they're having this conversation, but, I don't even know how to explain it. Why can't I do they're not talking, but it's like a voiceover.
Ryan: It's a choice.
Laura: Yeah, it was an interesting choice. While you're hearing what they're saying, but they're not actually speaking, and then you jump into their conversation. It was a little bit weird, but she anyway, bartender comes over, she orders a gin, and.
Ryan: Lopez are in that bar and it's snowing outside. I think that movie is real good, and that's a really good scene. But there are plenty of moments where it's intercut with very kind of silent moments where they're looking at each other. There's a hand touch, someone takes a wee drink, but the conversation continues and it never feels like it stops. But it's like nondiagetic sound being intercut with all these other moments. And that's really, really good. That's not what happens here.
Laura: Can I tell them what the drink is now?
Ryan: Whatever. It's the most interesting thing in this film, mostly.
Laura: Well, he says not to order a gin and tonic. Because that's not the type of place not the kind of drink that you get in this place, which also is never explained.
Ryan: You never understand why that no, I.
Laura: Don'T know why that is. It's weird.
Ryan: They use piss.
Laura: Their gin is piss. So you got to get something else. He orders her a penicillin and I immediately wondered, what is that? and it's scotch whiskey, ginger, honey syrup and fresh lemon juice. Which sounds delightful, actually. But I thought that was weird because if you're getting a gin and tonic, that's kind of, like a diet drink in a way, for ladies, in my opinion. It's like a diet drink where you kind of get your alcohol, but you don't have to have a lot of sugar and a lot of this extra stuff. And then he orders her a drink that has a lot more calories. It's just something I think about. Gin and tonic doesn't have a lot of calories. This looks like it does. It's got syrup, honey syrup, ginger, and alcohol. I'm all alone. I'm alone on this. Okay. Sounds like a good drink regardless. But I thought it's kind of gross to take over her order.
Ryan: I mean, Seb ordered it. It's probably full of so, you know, that doesn't surprise to we're getting to the dick scene.
Ryan: So they're drinking their interaction. The bar seems really long. And I kind of like, zoned out. I zoned out quite a fair amount. I don't really know what they're talking about. She starts telling a story about, was it Jupiter and the donkey? And the donkey. I'm just like, nope, I'm done.
Laura: Well, he didn't like the jobs. And he kept going to Jupiter and asking for a different type of job. And it's like, if you're not happy in this one moment, doing something else isn't going to make you happy.
Ryan: No, they just turned the donkey into a pair of sandals.
Laura: You got to be happy with what you have.
Ryan: Yes. And, I was like, yeah, but the donkey can become more than just a pair of sandals.
Laura: But every job was getting progressively worse for the donkey. That was the point.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess so. as you might expect, which is kind of was the purpose of this interaction was to get them back to the photo studio and effectively what becomes a, ah, naked photo shoot, so to speak.
Laura: Because they see this happening over and over and over again, where you see how he gets these models naked. And it's like, I was saying while we were watching the film, it's like what Paul Schrader did in the Canyons when Lindsay Lohan didn't want to get naked. And he goes, well, I'll go ahead and just get naked. It'll make you feel more comfortable being naked in front of the camera or whatever. Except Paul Schrader wasn't trying to sleep with everybody like this guy. So he tries.
Ryan: To Sam has an ulterior motive here.
Laura: Which is the bone. You know, get her a glass of wine. Oh, hey, what does your bra look like? Blah, blah, blah. Oh, I'll just take my pants off and then everyone's naked.
Ryan: Take off your bra.
Laura: What kind of underwear are you wearing?
Ryan: Well, yeah, he's also English as well. So it's also kind of creepy, just the way he says things. yeah, no, they both get, naked. The main issue I have with just this scene in general, and it is the dick scene. and we're kind of good. We're getting through it slow. Is that yeah. Sweeney, what are you trying to say? I don't know. There's a gross imbalance you know what I mean?
Laura: In the movie, in terms of nudity. In terms of nudity, 100%.
Ryan: If you hadn't seen Sweeney topless up to this point, then you're basically getting an eyeful in this film.
Laura: I don't have a problem with obviously I don't have a problem with nudity in film. But I do have a problem considering the amount of boobs, butt, and bush you see from women in this film. And the only full frontal we get is a half moment, like for a second earlier in the film, you get like a quarter side view when he's throwing away a condom in the bathroom. And then in this moment, which is an hour, 21 minutes, and 43 seconds, and it is a blink and you miss it moment.
Ryan: Pretty much, yeah.
Laura: Which it's there it is there. You see it. You get your full frontal male nudity. But in terms of how they're framing, Pippa in this moment, and you also have this man totally naked, it is imbalanced in terms of what gets shown. And there are moments especially I mean, we'll go back to it in a second. But when they do have sex, where you have that kind of erotic thriller shots that they're doing, where you're framing the woman and you are moving up and down her body and the camera is just taking it all in. It's only her that you're taking it all in. And I understand this is her journey, but also you can't just do that. No, I don't think you can just do that right now. You have to be balanced. And it's not it is heavily skewed.
Ryan: It's heavily kind of almost like borderline misogynistic. And I'm going to start saying things like that now. Because if you're not man enough to show the bare naked dude and he is naked, quote unquote, for a lot of the film, yes, absolutely undressed more than he is dressed. And at no point do we ever see a full shot of him from the front.
Laura: And it should be from the window as well as you're watching them from across the know before this moment happens. This time you're actually inside of their right. But when when Pippa and Thomas are watching them, and you should be seeing everything.
Ryan: And this is also a big, wide.
Laura: Shot from the other side of the.
Ryan: This is also a reason why I think the binoculars are inappropriate is because they are purely there as a tool to close the frame in. And when you look at that frame, almost 30% of that frame is this weird, binocular shaped, I guess, gobo, that's put on the front, which is like it's a slightly more advanced looking thing. It looks like there's like a sheet of glass. You can see the light reflecting off it and stuff, but at the same time, you're like, 30% of that screen is taken up with this. Gobo for shots that are weirdly close, they don't need to be that close. And it's kind of like you could have quite easily have, pulled the shot out. But I feel like that's because you're trying to they actively hide this man's.
Laura: Junk, and I do not think that this guy has a problem with it at all. I've watched interviews. I've read interviews, and from everything that I've gathered, it's not an issue. And especially because he's English. That's a typical thing with English folk. It's not as big of a deal. It is what it is.
Ryan: No.
Laura: And so I'm like, where was the choice here? Because it definitely wasn't his choice, and it was it the director's choice, or was it more of in the cutting room where you're like, we can't see this guy's dick too much, but it's a streaming film, so I think that they could have gotten away with a little bit more.
Ryan: There are so many questions I have over the clarity of this that I don't get it. I really don't. This film has it didn't have enough mass appeal that it didn't end up in a cinema, and it certainly does not end up in a cinema. And it's on a streaming mean unless it's maybe an Amazon Studios thing where it's like they need to feel as if they don't want to take things too far.
Laura: because if you're going to keep it in the vein of your late eighty s to ninety s erratic thrillers, there aren't a lot of full frontal male nudity. And what you get in those is m more akin to what you get here, where you get kind of sideshots glancing views, and it's not as full on.
Ryan: But here's the thing. This was a perfect opportunity to break that mold.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Because it's on a streaming platform, you can take that rating as far as you want to take it. You don't have to stick to the conventions of, say, a 90s rating board where the films were going into mass theatrical exhibition.
Laura: Correct.
Ryan: So this is where I feel like his 93 page journal kind of falls flat. I mean, he might as well just throw it in the fire at this point because he's not bringing anything new to the table. If this is effectively what this is, what he is doing is this is a nail that goes into the coffin of the electric of the erotic thriller. Right. And effectively, that's where it stays. It's going to end up being on your Lifetime films. It's going to stay that way for a long, long time. If this is the reaction that a man who's studied all of this seemingly right?
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: But he's not willing to either break the mold or learn from what I would refer to as the gross mistakes of female representation, that's in these films. I mean, he's effectively just repeating the same error.
Laura: I agree. You have that opportunity, especially for a film called The Voyeurs, to have that wide angle from across the street. And these people are doing their thing. And that's how people act in their own homes. They are naked a decent amount of time. I can't speak for everybody, but I know how I am. You're home, so you're just yourself. and you don't always have to wear clothes at home. So to not have that and you want to put a sense of realism into this, that's a mistake. That's a big mistake.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, it's also the biggest mistake we made was that we could feel like this was trying to be realistic, because it does eventually kind of divulge into, nonsense, effectively. I mean, that's kind of what it goes into.
Laura: I don't even know if we necessarily need to break down the whole end of this film.
Ryan: I don't really want to, just because I dislike it massively.
Laura: I wonder how we could wrap it up in a succinct little package.
Ryan: I mean, I just wanted to make sure that we'd covered everything with the dick scene. But effectively yeah, there is a shot that kind of that tilts down when he goes to pick up the camera. And you see, a, blurred I wouldn't say it's a blurry, but it's like a motion blurred shape of his winGus as he picks up the camera. But then also, the camera does this other thing where it's like she tells him to go get a condom. He goes to get a condom in this quite large apartment incredibly fast. and, as he's putting the condom on, the camera tilts up very fast so that when he turns around, you don't see anything because obviously you would see an erect penis with a ah, condom on it, which to me, I would feel like that's incredibly brave. There's going to be things that I wish the film did again, it's like what I just said there, where it's like it just it just dwindles into mediocrity. And you're just you just get incredibly frustrated with it. And there's also this really weird thing, and I wanted to kind of bring it up, is that he goes down on her, right. They're completely naked. And they start their coital interaction, right?
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: And there's a point where it's so weird. And I don't know what either the sound people were doing or what they were fucking thinking. But it's like when he's going down on her, it's like he's breathing into a mic and he's like.
Laura: His breath is much louder than hers.
Ryan: It's like, literally his face, his head and excuse me for being crass is like, right next to her vagina. And the sound guy's mic is just between his lips and her vagina. And it's like, is that what you were trying to do?
Laura: I did not notice that because that's the second time I've seen this film, and I didn't notice it the first time. But you are not wrong. It is very loud.
Ryan: It's, like, incredibly loud. And it's not the focus of the moment either, because the focus is on her face as she begins to realize, oh, this is it. I'm going to have sex with them. Whether or not I'm effectively trying to piece these things together, because the film in my head is better than what we watched. But certainly there's an understanding of like, okay, she's got to this moment and realizing that, yeah, we're going to bone now.
Laura: Yeah. It's the culmination of every fantasy she's had in her head since she moved into that place.
Ryan: Pretty much. but yeah, I guess how do we wrap this up? There's a few things that happen. And I mean, the film, by the time they have sex, there's another 40 minutes left. And at least the last 40 minutes, it's such a breakneck pace that it's not particularly dull. But it's unintelligible because it's a twist after twist after twist after twist after twist. It's like a twist every ten minutes.
Laura: And it's not even like, in effect, they've been watching them the whole time.
Ryan: These people, the Watchers, have been watching the watchers.
Laura: They actually own that loft.
Ryan: I feel like you're even going into more depth than I feel like it.
Laura: Deserves in order to put on, this exhibition.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess so. An art show.
Laura: So in order to put on this exhibition, they've rented the flat to them to watch them and just kind of see where it goes. They know everything that they've been doing because as they've been watching them, they've been watching the other people as well.
Ryan: So everyone's watching each other. justice hangs himself. yeah, he's the whole sexy stuff.
Laura: Whoops.
Ryan: Yeah. Sweeney, accuses them of foul play and effectively lures them to her optometrist laboratory, which was called Leoptique. And, she drugs them and then burns their fucking eyes out of their head.
Laura: Okay. So I have to say that there is a moment where you just accept it. And I was fine with it. She burns their eyes out. Eyes without a Face is playing. I'm like, okay, that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. It's fucking insane.
Ryan: And it has an end shot that rivals the shot that closes, out the Departed with the rat with the binoculars. And we can see her in the one lens that's cracked because it gets dropped at one point that has a cracked lens on it. And she turns and she looks and it cuts to black. And I'm like, thank fuck it's over.
Laura: These people would have been put in prison or sued.
Ryan: All of them would have been, even with the lease. Like, I didn't even understand it. I'm like, well, hold on. They're like, yeah, well, you signed it, without knowing. I was like, have you ever read a terms and conditions? And it's like, yes, but motherfucker, I'm not fucking tapping on a terms of conditions. And I've got someone at my front door being like, yeah, we're here to collect your kidneys. That's not how it fucking works. It's never worked that way. There are certain things in clauses and in contracts that cannot be included in clauses and contracts in certain areas. It doesn't make any fucking sense.
Laura: Well, you have to put it in there because it has to be a film. So it's fine and I'll allow it. But it's silly. And I think that you can push the envelope a little bit. They should have pushed the envelope in.
Ryan: Terms of the male nudity, but it's a gross negligence.
Laura: That is really bad. I'm not okay with that.
Ryan: It doesn't make any sense.
Laura: I really thought it was more when I saw it the first time, but oh, well, I think I just get excited when I see the Shaft and I go, whoa, there's a penis.
Ryan: Do you have any other facts? Did this win any awards?
Laura: I do. no.
Laura: So we were talking about realism in terms of erotic thrillers from the stuff. And Moen said that he wanted this film to kind of recreate that realism. But, I'm going to talk a little bit about intimacy coordinators. Not too much, because that's how it is nowadays. You have to have an intimacy coordinator there. And he said that he'd botch a take and he'd be like, that was perfect. And then the intimacy coordinator would turn around and say, oh, I could actually see a gap between their crotches. And then he'd go, but if you angle them just a bit, it'll look a little bit more like they're having sex. So I thought an intimacy coordinator okay, hold on. I thought an intimacy coordinator for me for me, just made sure that the actors felt comfortable on set with a nudity and everything else. That they felt comfortable. They knew what they were doing and they weren't being taken advantage. La Sharon Stone in, Basic Instinct, for example.
Ryan: I mean, yeah, I guess.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: But the SAG after definition of an intimacy coordinator is an advocate, a liaison between actors and production and a movement coach and or choreographer in regards to nudity and simulated sex and other intimate and hyperexposed scenes. So they're also there to make sure.
Ryan: That it looks real, like they're having intimate moments.
Laura: Right. So not only are they there to make sure that you don't get taken advantage of and you feel comfortable and you're safe, but that you also look like you're doing it.
Ryan: Yeah. So this simulated moment doesn't look simulated.
Laura: So that's what that was like. If I angle them just this way, then that'll work for the shot.
Ryan: There's a few things where there's some moment, like there's sex scenes in this film. Some of them just look weird and uncomfortable. Like that moment where they're having sex. To them having sex, it's kind of.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I think that's just sex.
Ryan: I mean, I guess so. if you're trying to do that, then you do like what Lars von Trier does in his movies. And it's like, no, this is it. This is what it fucking looks like. As opposed to it being like within the framework of the erotic thriller from the where, you know, it's lit a certain way. Like it's done a certain way. It's a stylistic choice. The things that are going on in these sex scenes, these sex scenes in this movie are incredibly well lit. You're kind of just looking at it and you are like, yeah, they're just having sex. There's no sense of sensuality or romanticism or at least within the framework of the erotic thrillers that I like. There's a sense of danger. You cannot compare the sex that happens in this movie to what happens in Basic Instinct or even fucking Fatal Attraction. And Fatal Attraction is probably one of the best sex scenes that's ever been committed to film. When they're having sex in the fucking.
Laura: Kitchen and then they're just wiping water.
Ryan: All over each other's faces.
Laura: Yeah, but that's different because, that's the you've got a lot of smoke. there's always some sort of sexy breeze. Everyone's wet. especially like your neonoir erotic thrillers where it's sweaty. You've got your sweaty thrillers like Body Heat.
Ryan: There is nothing wrong with that.
Laura: Absolutely not. Those are perfect films. But this is different because it has to be lit that way just because of what it is. You have to have it bright because they have to be able to see it and you have to be able to it's like a beacon, like, look, look at us. So that's fine. It is what it is. It's not going to be that sexy, smoky shit.
Ryan: it just doesn't have the same level of appeal.
Laura: And that's fine.
Ryan: Also, to me, it's kind of more like, why are you finding this appealing to watch while also trying to have sex yourself? It might just be for me, but then also, I'm not able in the framework of the film, to make the association between the voyeurism as a Kink or the Voyeurism, as this drive for the story. There's no level of association for me to be like, okay, this is why this is happening. It's like, why is this happening?
Laura: so one last thing I have to say before we wrap up with the ratings and everything, is we were talking about the, unequality, like the difference between how much male nudity and how much female nudity there is. and Sydney Sweeney was talking to The Independent and said that there's a stigma against actresses who get naked on screen and address the kind of double standard in Hollywood that allows men to be praised for nude scenes. And women are often reprimanded. But I don't agree with her there necessarily. I know that there has been a kind of backlash for certain actresses.
Ryan: Or actors who have covered it on this podcast.
Laura: Absolutely. in the Cut, for example, is a huge one. But, there's a lot of actors who have been nude and gotten heavily awarded, for different roles that they've been in. And, like, Kate Winslet, for example, and the reader charlize Therone and Monster, Holly Berry. Holly Hunter stuff. Like know, it's not like it's like an end of a career thing or you get in trouble for it. I think it just depends on the role, depends on the film. It's the same for men. Men have that same situation, but it's not always like men get applauded for getting naked. No, they don't do it as often.
Ryan: I mean, I watched a video recently of Heath Ledger, being posed a very difficult question about, the gay love story elements of Brought Back Mountain being disgusting. and it's kind of like he's put in a position to then have to justify the definition of what love is. So, to me, I feel like a lot of the backlash comes from, white conservatism, primarily male, and it's like they just don't agree with certain things being done a certain way. And it's only a certain sect of society that I feel like that criticism is coming from. so it just depends on how loud that criticism becomes on a moment for moments basis now.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess she's kind of saying that women are treated differently than men, and I guess that's kind of one of the purposes of this podcast. And what we're trying to do is that, ah, there has to be a level of balance. And I think it really comes down to a filmmaker by filmmaker basis, as I feel like some filmmakers are a little bit more aware of it than others. In this occasion. I feel like if you're not creating a balance and you're primarily focused on female nudity for the most part, when really there are plenty of opportunities for you to be a little more equal in that bias, especially when you're focusing.
Laura: On this woman who's obsessing kind of specifically on this man. And he is naked over there a lot, but you never see it.
Ryan: And also, it's kind of like, if you don't show it, why is the audience going to then believe that he's like, this desirable individual? There's no sense of sexually. Where is she going with this in her head? To us, the audience? I'm like, well, the guy's a cheat. He's a fucking scumbag. Like, he's fucking his models. There's no level of, comprehension for why she would find that attractive. But the main issue I have with this inequality, with the nudity in the film, and this is with any film that focuses primarily on female as opposed to male, is it's just potentially a little bit misogynistic. You're just kind of gazing at the woman, and that's effectively all you're doing. And it's kind of like this level of control, which, we don't really like talking about on this podcast. And we'll lauder the films that decide short Bus, I think, is a very good example. And I also think that, films that we've covered in the gay cinema vein also kind of do that.
Laura: Ivory yeah.
Ryan: The man where you feel like it's just a little bit more of a balance, and it's a little bit more realistic as a result of that. So for me, my main issue I have with this film is that you feel it's a little bit exploitative of the female performers.
Laura: Well, especially if you're putting a film out there and you want to portray the female gaze. This film did not do that. When you're watching a film that is meant to be the female gaze, like upon and you're not it's a male gaze. Men it's. Men it's.
Ryan: Men it's a male filmmaker who also wrote it.
Laura: And I appreciate, whatever.
Laura: I'm going to go into my ratings first, and then I'll say my final thoughts. Yeah. because I'm done with this.
Ryan: Yeah, I'm done, too.
Laura: So in terms of visibility and context, I think, as we've mentioned in the breakdown of the penis scene, that is a one for me because it is short, swift blink and you'll miss it, you got to pause it. I'm glad that we did this film because we could kind of break down why that's a problem. I appreciate that it's there, but it is fleeting at best. we needed way more to balance this bad boy out. and, do you mind if I just do my film rating?
Ryan: Yeah, go on then. I don't know how much more I'll land around. I mean yeah, maybe we just give our final words now.
Laura: Two and a half. Two and a half is my film rating. I actually had a three, because I do think it gets a little wild at the end and things happen that you don't expect to happen, which I think is interesting because it does follow a line throughout, like an hour and a half, at least through the film. But then I don't like when you have kind of that third act turn that's completely crazy and you don't really get to relish it, you don't get to enjoy it as much. It just keeps flip, flip, flipping. And, I find that a little bit annoying, but I do like how weird it gets at the end.
Ryan: Yeah, I completely cannot agree with you about the ending and stuff like that. It gets so weird that it just becomes a little nonsensical and logic kind of goes completely out of the window. There is a complete lack of logic within the storytelling, and I feel like obviously it's written to not have a level of logic, which I think some films can get away with. in terms of the context, the visibility, I would go even further because I just don't like the lack of it and I do not like how it is contextually within the scene. I just dislike it intently. I mean, you say a one, you do see it a little bit more, but the thing is, it's so quick, I'm going to even say it's like a half star.
Laura: Okay.
Ryan: because this film contextually, I don't fully believe that they had a handle on what sort of story they were telling and the thematic concerns of, certainly calling a film the Voyeurs, I don't feel like they have a grasp of what voyeurism actually is. So I'm a little bit confused by that. and because of that, I feel like the film goes down some roads that you're just, like, wondering what is going on and other than it being like an auditory assault, and you feel like you're just being commented on the entire time that you're watching it. I mean, I gave the film initially about a one and a half because there is some nice line delivery and, some of the cinematography is nice, but I'm willing to drop it even further to a one. Just purely based on some of the things that we're talking about, where it's a film about a woman's perspective of how she's watching a man from across the way and this kind of sexual realization that she's going through. But then, effectively, what we're kind of subjected to is an exploitation of not only her character, but certainly an exploitation of her particular kink and her interest that's taken so far that it beggars belief. And effectively, the film becomes a commentary on not only like, kink shaming, but certainly a commentary on how, I guess just how easily people can be exploited for what they're interested in. And it's just so backwards in its approach that I'm like it comes across as mildly offensive. And I think it's more offensive in the fact that I think it's, a poorly written story. I think Sweeney's not given what she should be expecting and, yeah, it's a one star movie for me. If this is the revival of the erotic thriller, I think he needs to pass the mantle to somebody else and let them have a go.
Laura: He's already, started writing the sequel.
Ryan: So I'm not interested in it.
Laura: I like the intent here. but I do I feel I maybe expect a little bit more. Give me gifted. Oh, god. I was about to do another, like, let's get more women directing these and writing these, erotic thrillers. But then you're going to bring up Jane Campion and say that she dropped the ball. So let's not even go into that.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: So there we have it. That was a ride coming, to you from Bar La Royale.
Ryan: I have been laura, don't have the gin and tonic because it's basically piss.
Laura: That's right. And we'll freaking see you next time. We've got something else coming. That's better.
Ryan: Yeah. We have a much better film coming.
Laura: A wonderful comparison film.
Ryan: Yes. It's about films. Yeah. It's another film about someone watching someone and inserting themselves into their life. And, it's got a proper male nude scene in it.
Laura: Yeah. Hold on to your butts.
Ryan: Hold on to your butts.