The first episode of 2024: the much-requested VELVET GOLDMINE!
We're in the future! The further we progress into the future, the more you feel what a sham all those sci-fi concepts are. ANYWAY what better way to celebrate the future than by going into the past.
Yeah, we're covering the highly requested and regarded Todd Haynes, New Queer Cinema staple, 'Glam Rock' celebration: VELVET GOLDMINE. Starring a slew of big names from Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Ewan McGregor, Christian Bale, Eddie Izzard and Toni Collette. In the 'THIS IS NOT David Bowie' universe of the 60's and 70's rise of Glam, we have very similar figures pretending to be an Iggy Pop imposter with a dodgy accent.
So sit back, kick off those glad rags and platform shoes and settle in! Bang a a gong! Ride a white swan! [INSERT ANOTHER T-REX LYRIC HERE]
Striking a Chord: Unveiling Cinema's Full Frontal Moments
Ryan: Ah. Alrighty. We need to get myself a new chair because this is insane.
Laura: Really bad.
Ryan: It is so loud.
Laura: You're also very fidgety. Fidgetman.
Ryan: I'm a. Yeah, I'm a bit of a mover and a groover. Like, I can't. I can't help, uh, that.
Laura: That's the sound of Ryan moving and grooving.
Ryan: I wish. I wish that everything that I did, like, certain choices, like, if I made, like, a really good joke, it sounds like you just selected a character in Jetshead radio.
Laura: How would that go?
Ryan: And I'm like, oh, that's nice. And then everyone's just like, uh, hate.
Laura: This episode now, please. Yeah, it's the first of the year. First episode of the year, and I really want to do it properly.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: I don't want to mess it up.
Ryan: I mean, I'm keeping all of this stuff.
Laura: Have a good time.
Ryan: Well, you're the one just taking up all of the, so.
Laura: Well, hello there. Welcome to On the BiTTE the podcast that uncovers full frontal male nudity in cinema. My name is Laura, and I am joined by my co host, Ryan.
Ryan: Oh, my God. It's the future.
Laura: We are always in, uh, striving for the future, striving for the new year. I mean, what's the bigger and better things?
Ryan: What's the next Sci-Fi movie that we're about to overtake because we already overtook Blade Runner.
Laura: I thought Blade Runner was about to happen.
Ryan: Uh, I thought it was Los Angeles, 2019. Yeah. So either way, I think it's already happened. Um, either way.
Laura: Um, I don't know what the next one is.
Ryan: Irobot.
Laura: That's cool. I think those robots would be too expensive to actually own.
Ryan: Yes. They would also look like fucking shit.
Laura: And put a little bit of lipstick on them.
Ryan: Well, the world would also be kind of. Well, I mean, it already is, but it would also be full of corporate sponsorship. You know what I mean? Like, every. Every second shot in that movie is a corporate piece of sponsorship.
Laura: Wish we could get some corporate sponsor sharp.
Ryan: Sponsorship.
Laura: Sponsor sharp.
Ryan: I would love some sponsorship.
Laura: I love money.
Ryan: As much as I'd like to shit on irobot for some of the things that it does, um, I would have no issue selling myself out to have.
Laura: Enough money as Brian Slade in the 1998 musical drama Velvet Gold mine.
Ryan: Was he rich?
Laura: He was the top of the pops.
Ryan: He was Top of the pops. Yeah, he was famous. I don't know if he had a lot of money, but, yeah, we're doing velvet gold mine, guys with that amount.
Laura: Of cocaine on the table, baby, you got to have a lot of money.
Ryan: It's the 70s. Everyone had a coffee table. It was just covered in cocaine.
Laura: Like a big bowl of cocaine.
Ryan: Exactly.
Laura: I remember I was watching that documentary last night about the wrestlers, and he had a big bowl of cocaine.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, he would bring it out like it was a sugar bowl. Um, yeah, I remember a story from some friends in university, and, uh, that very thing happened. They were hanging out with some, uh, I guess, some mutual friends, and there were some unsavory characters there. And there was a giant bowl of cocaine, if I remember.
Laura: Yeah. Gino Hernandez, that was the wrestler who had a big bowl of cocaine, and he died. He had three to five times the amount of cocaine in his body. That should kill a person.
Ryan: Holy shit. Well, he was a wrestler. They are known for their party, uh, antics, kind of. I remember reading a story once about sumo wrestlers and how much booze they can put away. I don't know if I'mixing that up.
Laura: With Andre the giant, like, Andre the giant.
Ryan: Andre the giant could fucking drink you under the table. He really could. Yeah, of course, because he was a large, gentleman, big man.
Laura: Um, this film, Velvet Goldmine, that we're talking about, really deep into the wrestling documentaries right now. Sorry. Um, I'm also very into Velvet Goldmine. Uh, this is a stacked film. This is very popular film. I'm very excited about this film. It stars Ewan McGregor, Christian Bale, Jonathan Reese Myers, Tony Collette, Eddie Izzard's in this movie, along with. I'm sure there's many, many other people. Um, but these are the top kids that are in this film, uh, directed by Todd Haynes.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Um, we got a new movie from Todd Haynes, which I have a bone to pick about, but that's okay. Let me give you the very long synopsis I pulled from letterboxd, and then we'll jump into.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Okay. Catch my breath.
Almost a decade has elapsed since Bowie esque glam rock superstar Brian Slade escaped the spotlight of the London scene. Now investigative journalist Arthur Stewart is on assignment to uncover the truth behind the enigmatic Slade. Stewart himself, forged by the music of the 1970s, explores the larger than life stars who were once his idols and what has become of them since the turn of the new decade. The tagline of this film, uh, doesn't make any sense to me. I think, uh, as a teaser, which.
Ryan: Makes sense, I have a couple of bones to pick about the synopsis. Go ahead, give me the tagline first.
Laura: All right. It makes sense as a teaser for a film, right? Because you want that tease. You want that mystery. So the tagline is, style matters, even when it comes to murder.
Ryan: What?
Laura: I know.
Ryan: What does that even mean?
Laura: Um. Uh, it means nothing.
Ryan: Well, he's not murdered, and they already figure out that it was a hoax immediately, almost immediately within the confines of the film story. Because then he goes into hiding. Um, right. So I have a couple of bones to pick about this synopsis, if that's the official synopsis, which I'm assuming it isn't.
Laura: You're assuming it isn't?
Ryan: I'm assuming it isn't. Because why would you then cite the boyesque antics of this character when obviously it's set in this kind of parallel world where bands like Iggy Pop and the Stooges and David Bowie and T Rex and Slade and stuff do not exist as much as in the film? Their music is obviously used within the context of the film to give an idea of the dating of the film as well.
Laura: Right.
Ryan: Because Bob Dylan is. Is like his albums I saw in the record shop. And I was trying to figure out if there was any others. But these are, like, alternate versions of very popular acts from the. Obviously the. So they're referencing, like, this boyesque character as if, like, okay, this is the easiest way in which we can reference this. But it's like, boy doesn't exist in this universe.
Laura: Correct.
Ryan: Because this Brian Slade character does. And he is basically just a bowie. Uh, like, he is. He's a direct rip of David Bowie.
Laura: Right. So that's originally what the character was meant to be. But they lost the rights to use Bowie's music. So they were in talks, they were going to do it. And then Bowie at the time was intending to make a similar film, of course. So then they had to turn Brian Slade into kind of a mishmash of what glamrock was during that time. And Jonathan Reese Myers only had about ten days to readjust to not playing like Bowie. And so he made kind of a mixture of Bowie, Mark Boland and Brian Eno. To kind of create Brian.
Ryan: Brian eno. Right. Okay. I mean, I can see it, and that makes sense. And it's like, well, if you've already kind of gone to the lengths of designing the film to fit around and the music and everything and the music was all that original music always going to be in the film? Or is this.
Laura: I think there were original songs because if they only had that amount of time, a lot of people were involved in the music of course, you know what mean. So even though. Because Jonathan Reese Myers and Ewan McGregor did sing some of the songs, some of the Jonathan Reese Myers songs were overdubbed by Tom York.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Um, and like the Venus infers, the group that they had put together for the film, tom York's in it. Johnny Greenwood, Bernard Butler, Andy McKay, um, Craig McClun. Like a lot of it's like a super group that kind of came together to make that, who also wrote songs for the film, so they wouldn't have had time.
Ryan: Right. Because I recognize some Tom York in the soundtrack. I think, um, Haynes told Tom, uh.
Laura: York to ham it up. They had a great time.
Ryan: I mean, it's of the. Yeah, okay, well, that makes a lot more sense. I mean, to be fair, like the David Bowie estate and certainly his son, they're incredibly. I mean, his son's Duncan Jones, I think it is. Or Duncan James, I can't remember. He's a very famous director. Um, they're very protective of the David Bowie estate. There was a more recent entanglement with another production company over making, ah, like a David Bowie biopic. So effectively the biopic that came out, it was a David Bowie biopic, but it was not endorsed by the family. Um, and as far as I'm aware, it was fucking terrible.
Laura: Um, you were right at Stunkin Jones. He directed Moon.
Ryan: Yeah. Uh, we worked with Jake.
Laura: Source code.
Ryan: Mhm. Yeah, he's that guy. Uh, he did warcraft as well.
Laura: Yeah, I didn't mention that one.
Ryan: He made that movie reasons. Yeah.
Um, I think it's difficult to talk about velvet gold mine without talking about Bowie, of course.
Laura: I mean, the title comes from a David Bowie song.
Ryan: Of course it does. But then that answers my primary question, which was, why is this not just about David Bowie? And it's kind of Ewan McGregor's character, right. Kurt Wilde, was he originally just going to be iggy pop?
Laura: Um, I'm trying to find my notes.
Ryan: I wrote about it because there's songs by other bands. I mean, placebos in this film. If anyone's familiar with, uh, the group placebo, um, they also play what effectively looks like a Trex, uh, like cover band, effectively. So the lead singer of placebo is playing a very kind of mark Boland esque sort of lead, uh, singer character as, um. Uh, yeah, I guess. I guess that kind of levels a little bit of the confusion for me. And I think that, yeah, um, it feels Od. Certainly when, if you're not able to have the license for the boy stuff, you do continue to call the film Velvet Goldmine. And it has very kind of distinctive boy esque traits all about.
Laura: Right. Um. Um, yeah, Kurt Wilde is basically pop.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah, because he is pretty much the spitting fucking image of iggy pop in the mean, that's pretty much it. Um, played by Ewan McGregor. Um, but yeah, sorry, I think we're getting on track. But, yeah, that was one of my main concerns about the film in general.
Laura: Uh, yeah, well, Tod Haynes said that everything in velvet Goldmine comes know something historic or from writings and imaginations of seminal figures, musical artists. Um, a lot of the dialogue is taken from Oscar Wilde's writings.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: As well. I mean, they reference Oscar Wilde quite a bit.
Ryan: Yes. Well, it might not come as any surprise to anybody, but this is an incredibly gay film. Um, it's a very good example of queer cinema. Um, and you wouldn't expect anything less from the likes of Todd Haynes Treasure, who is an american film director, screenwriter and producer. Um, so he came to public prominence, um, with his short film superstar, which was the Karen Carpenter story that he made in 1987. This wasn't his first short film, but he'd certainly made, he'd made a handful of stuff. And basically this film chronicled the life and death of Karen Carpenter, using Barbie dolls as the actors. And he plays all the voices as well.
Laura: Um, I was trying to find that that sounds.
Ryan: I mean, it came into the public attention, but also it falls into a little bit of controversy for fairly obvious reasons. Um, but that kind of gets him his start. Now, we've obviously spoken about Gregoraki and we'll talk a little bit more about queer cinema and stuff like that. But Todd Haynes is certainly seemed to be one of the forerunners within the new queer cinema movement, which we talked about when we were talking about doom generation a few episodes back. Um, and certainly, yes, and short bus. Um, so obviously he's part of a collection of other filmmakers, um, that kind of get classified under this movement, so to speak, from, say, like the. Obviously into the. But yeah, I can jump off and we can just go into some of his films and things. A lot of these will be very popular choices as well. But he also doesn't have a very extensive filmography either.
Laura: Um, it all hits pretty much in my book.
Ryan: I don't think he's made a bad film. Um, which is fine. Um, that's great.
Laura: Good for him.
Ryan: Yeah. So it starts off in 91 with poison, follows, uh, that up with safe in 1995. Velvet Goldmine then comes out in 1998, and then after that, we have far from heaven, 2002. I'm not there from 2007, which is the Bob Dylan biopic, uh, Carol from 2015, Wonderstruck from 2017, dark Waters from 2019, the Velvet Underground in 2021, and then very recently released may December on Netflix. And, um, that was in 2023.
Laura: May December has, here we go. A penis in it, and it is a prosthetic. I am floored. I am flabbergasted. I am furious.
Ryan: You're disappointed.
Laura: I am madly disappointed in this.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: I don't understand why, but here we are. Here we are. It's ridiculous.
Ryan: Yeah, she's fuming.
Laura: I'm mad. I was so excited. That movie is very good. If you guys haven't seen it yet, I think we got Netflix. I don't know if we had Netflix left over. We keep canceling it, but we had.
Ryan: Leftover Netflix from watching the killer.
Laura: Oh, right.
Ryan: Yeah. So we tried to watch some, uh, Scott Pilgrim, but we couldn't really get into it that hard.
Laura: I'd rather just watch the Edgar Wright Scott pilgrim myself.
Ryan: I mean, personally. I mean, I would watch it. We just didn't really get into it.
Laura: May December has a fake penis in it, and it's ridiculous. I'm very upset. Um, but I did watch safe yesterday, and that was really good.
Ryan: Yeah, no, he's made some cracking films. If you've not seen Carol, Carol's definitely want to watch.
Laura: Absolutely. It's just like petering out of the Christmas season, but the holiday season. But that's a hot lesbian Christmas movie.
Ryan: Yeah. You'll find thematically in these films, certainly he'll have, uh, a lot of gay content in these films. He's also a gay man himself.
Laura: Um, yeah, so he had said that the thing about Velvet Goldmine is he's like, oh, uh, these kind of questions about who's gay and who's straight are meaningless. I loved that period and found it to be radical and continue to feel that way about it because there were no secure identity politics.
That's probably why it wasn't a film that was as embraced by the gay community as I would have hoped. Uh, there wasn't a clear cut evocation of gay identity in velvet goldmine. Um, and he said that glam rock blurred sexual orientations, masculinity, femininity, english music and american music. Dandy, uh, music hall influences of english culture and the hard rock world of american post hippie music.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess that also comes as a bit of a double edged sword as well, just because of the issues I feel come surrounding, not just like glam rock in general, but like the 70s as a period for, um, I guess one of the bigger things is Gary Glitter. And obviously the allegations surrounding the late David Bowie. Um, so I feel like those things can't be, like, they can't be overlooked. When you talk about the 70s as a musical period as well. Gary Glitter was, um, a monster. Yes. That's what I mean, is that it only goes so far.
Laura: David Bowie did end up seeing the film and he said, when I saw the film, I thought the best thing about it were the gay scenes. They were the only successful part of the film, frankly.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: He liked the gay scenes and so did know I. That's something that I like about it. Know, they're interviewing. You have the guy from the BBC interviewing people on the streets and uh, saying, oh, are you bisexual? He goes, yeah, I like men, I like women. It's all the same thing. And I'm like, yeah, whatever.
Ryan: Yeah. I would say there's some really nice stylistic flourishes. There's some shots in the film that remind me of Maisel's brothers documentary, um, footage like that sort of thing. Like straight out of. No, well, they didn't do sympathy for the devil, that was Godard. But they did do, um, like gimme shelter and stuff like that. That kind of reminded me of those sorts of, uh, those interview vignettes from 70s, talking to bands and stuff in press conferences and things, which I think this film captures relatively quite well. If there's anything you can say that's flawless about the film, it is. Its sense of design, its fashion. It does a very good job of categorizing, I guess, the evolution and the progression of this musical movement. Um, and it feels very authentic in that sense. Certainly coming from. Coming from a filmmaker who obviously did not grow up in the UK. Um, I think it has a very good sense of the pulse of, uh, that musical movement, even, to say, I would even compare it to quadrophenia, which was obviously about the, uh, more about the mods than the rockers and the glam rockers. Um, yeah, I would say it has a very good sense of the zeitgeist of the time.
Laura: Yeah. He said he wanted to make a film that rekindled the spirit of the late 1960s and early 70s filmmaking. Uh, like the culture that produced glam rock and, uh, the hybrid of various unexpected influences that crossed each other. Um, like the underworld mixing with the avant garde rock and roll gay cultures and then producing certain kinds of art.
Ryan: And think it. I think it does a really good job of that, and certainly, like myself, um, I like T Rex. I like, you know, as much as it's not very fashionable to say that you like David Bowie, I do feel like his catalog of music is kind of unparalleled to quite a number of, uh, his respective kind of artists as.
Laura: Know, um, you just have to dance in secret.
Ryan: Yeah, uh, kind of. It's like people who say, like, dance.
Laura: In secret to Michael Jackson.
Ryan: It's like dancing in secret to. Yeah, uh, well, you've got that Michael Jackson video game for the wi.
Laura: It's a really fun video game.
Ryan: You can't deny the fact that they made fantastic music. It's just a shame that, like, well, it's not really a shame. It's just kind of a shame for the people involved. Yeah, it's a shame for the people involved. And it's more tragic than anything else. Um, and certainly there's no. Well, as much as I didn't. Well, no, there is Gary glitter music in the film, but his crimes didn't come to light until, I think, the 2000s or something like that. But he's like a bona fide monster. It's a shame that obviously his film, his music is kind of still situating in films, and certainly one of the biggest ones, obviously, is the full monty. And you barely see that film on tv anymore.
Laura: That movie doesn't have a penis in it.
Ryan: No. How ironic.
Laura: I know.
Ryan: Yeah, it's weird.
Laura: Womp, womp. Let's just jump in. Let's just jump in with the fact that this starts off like the fellowship of the ring with an ethereal Kate Blanchett esque voice narrating, uh, the beginning.
Ryan: Of the film or like Citizen Kane.
Laura: There you go.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Bada boom.
Ryan: Well, I think I've only seen this film a couple of times. This was my first time watching it in quite a number of years. And then people were referencing the fact that it's kind of structured like Citizen Kane. And I would have to agree with them in some sort of way, even to the point where I'm like, it becomes more of like a rock parody version of Citizen Kane. Um, yeah. Which I thought was kind of. Yeah, it's interesting that if you were going to pick a structure for anything, because this is kind of like a flippity philopity, timey whimy sort of story, um, that's told from a separate narrator, who then we start to see a different perspective, and then we obviously get to see from the perspective of Jonathan Reese Myers, and then from Iggy Pop and Ewan McGregor. And then obviously, we have Christian Bale, who's following the story, which is also from his past. But then in the modern day, he's retracking these stories so that he can track down what happened to the elusive Brian Slade after the hoax assassination attempt.
Laura: You get Tony Collette's point of view as well. But essentially, it's Christian Bale's character story, like, going back through his past and the people who kind of helped him discover who he was, his sexual identity and things like that, and just kind of coming, I don't know, like rediscovering himself pretty much.
Ryan: Pretty much. It's like.
Laura: But through many different perspectives, back and forth in time, whether some things are real or not, unsure. I still don't know if he and Kurt had sex on a rooftop. I hope so. Covered in glitter, you never know.
Ryan: Yes, I do like that. It tracks his emotional journey from beginning to end. And it starts with him, obviously, uh, as a younger person to then the strife that he had with his family from having to discover his own sexual identity and obviously living with very conservative parents to know, becoming a fully fledged adult and then delving back into that world of wonder and what feels like it kind of characterized his coming of age, so to speak, which I think is Christian Bale is the strongest, probably the strongest performer in the film.
Yeah, he is very good.
Laura: Strong. Um, that it's almost out of place.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Because he's so great. And I'm not saying everyone, because, I mean, everyone else is great as well. It's just that he really shines in just how casually good he is.
Ryan: Yes. The only person I would maybe say falls a little bit flat for me is, unfortunately, you and McGregor. And it's the american accent. It's the accent. The accent completely pulls you out of the whole thing. And you're like, but he's meant to be an iggy pop like character. Why do we then have to continue being american with him if we're just kind of using this as, like, a reference? Now, I understand. Obviously, later on in the story, they have to fly out to the US. They go to Missouri, they go pick him up. He's there. And then, obviously, this is what Burgeon's, uh, this blossoming, uh, production and romantic relationship that he and Jonathan Reese Myers'character have. Um, at this point, um, of the do wish. I do wish that they didn't make him do that accent.
Laura: Yeah, it is uncomfortable, and I forgot when watching it again, I go, uh oh, crap. He's american. It's almost completely unromantic.
Ryan: Well, the thing is, his accent gets better because I think he does some other things, obviously, after this that have an american accent. And I think. Yeah, well, actually, no, I may take that back because he's also in the island as well, and his accent is not great in the island.
Laura: But that's way later. The next film he does after this is Phantom Menace.
Ryan: Oh, well, I mean, it doesn't fucking matter.
Laura: I know he doesn't have at that point. Yeah, I know he doesn't have a.
Ryan: Yeah, because he could fucking put any accent on in that movie. Everyone was going to love him doing whatever he was going to do. His Obi wan.
Laura: Hello there.
Ryan: Hello. Hello. I see. Oh, it's perfect. Not the younglings.
Laura: I hate them.
Ryan: Um.
Laura: That movie, Hayden Christensen never takes his penis out.
Ryan: Any of Star wars movies. I could watch Revenge of the Sith. Really? I mean, I think that movie's really fucking good. I know it's like, it's more like guilty pleasure at this point, but holy fucking shit, you're breaking my heart.
Laura: I'll cry. I'll cry every time. Amazing.
Ryan: Um, we're talking about velvet goldmine.
Laura: Sorry.
Ryan: But yeah, everyone plays a really? Because Eddie Isard turns up and I'm like, oh, my God, I fucking love Eddie Izzard.
Laura: National treasure.
Ryan: National treasure. Tony Collete's amazing.
Laura: National treasure.
Ryan: And she just brings the goods. She also has a bit of a.
Laura: Dodgy that I love her because she's an Australian playing an American who's playing an english person who's like putting on a fake english accent. Yes, that it's the worst.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: It's the worst accent. But I like that because that's part of her character. And then she'll slip in and out of her american and english accent. But she's so, uh, incredible at what she does.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: That you are like, okay. She's just so tuned into that character.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: That's why it works. So, yeah, Tony Collete. Yeah, powerhouse.
Ryan: She's good. She's damn good.
Laura: She's still not as good as Christian Bale in this movie. Sorry. But she's amazing.
Ryan: No, he's the runaway star of this film. Um, but yeah, I think it's like he's just incredibly useful from a narrative, like a storytelling mechanic of being our eyes into this world. Because very rarely does the camera find itself on the stage with the actors. It's always kind of seen from the audience point of view. Um, and then obviously when you're taking into the back rooms, into the levels of depravity and the androgyny and the sexuality and things that are going on. Because there's a lot of orgies. Absolutely, there's a lot of orgies.
Laura: Um, not enough, maybe, but I'll allow it.
Ryan: I don't know how many more orgies the film needed, but, um. At, like, almost 2 hours, ten minutes. I don't know if I needed another one, if it would improve.
Laura: It's just under 2 hours.
Ryan: It's 2 hours long.
Laura: It's 118 minutes.
Ryan: Okay, well, it's 2 hours long.
Laura: Another ten minutes of orgies would have been acceptable.
Ryan: Yeah, that's all.
But, uh, for the most part, we're seeing the development and the evolution of the Brian Slade character. And effectively, it's tracking the same way as obviously what you saw with David boy, who obviously started his career as. I think it was David, maybe David James. Or is it David Jones? I'm not 100% sure. I can't really remember. Um. And then obviously, he develops into the David boy Persona. And then obviously, David boy becomes all sorts of very different personas over the course of his musical. Um, know, you'll. You kind of get to see smidgens of that. Because obviously that was what was inherent within the original script. And what they were obviously trying to go for. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think if you just remove the fact that they all have different names and you just pretend that they're who they're kind of pretending to be. Um, yeah, then I think the film is far more interesting. Personally, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, I guess not.
Laura: I think it's fine.
Ryan: A lot like the original music.
Laura: Because I think it would be harder to do that. Because then everyone's going to expect a pitch perfect portrayal. But you could have a little bit more fun. If you're Brian Slade rather than David Bowie. You can have a little bit more fun and make it your own. Um, know, even though they all take from the characters. What's my word?
Ryan: It's not intimidating, impersonating, imitating.
Laura: It's not even early in the day, and I can't. I know.
Ryan: It is late in the afternoon.
Laura: Yes.
Ryan: Um. I don't know. I feel like, um. Because, again, you answered all those questions and stuff. For me, the comparisons are because there's plenty of well documented material out there. Tracking moments of this artist and of his life and of his musical ability and things like that. There's been countless documentaries and stuff on the man up until this point. As of. Yeah, I find it difficult to separate the Brian Slade from the boy because it feels so intrinsically linked and influenced by that.
Laura: Um, I know that I would be very angry if my favorite pop star was shot down at the very beginning of a rock show. Crazy rather than the end. I thought that was quite selfish, especially because it's a hoax.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: He just got on stage and then he gets shot. Ridiculous.
Ryan: And you paid for that ticket?
Laura: You paid for that ticket. Um hm. Weird. Reminds me of the time in 2004 when I bought tickets to go see David Bowie, the real David Bowie, in Miami, and the show was canceled because a lighting technician fell and died.
Ryan: Oh, wow.
Laura: And they canceled the show. I guess they'd worked together for a long time and he was very sad. Know he would have to sing and perform on stage where someone had just perished.
Ryan: So.
Laura: Fair enough. But then David Bowie died and I never got to see.
Ryan: That's. Yeah, that's a shame. That's a shame.
Laura: Shame that the guy died as well.
Ryan: But talking about performing.
Laura: Shall we? I don't know. I kind of jumped right into the penis scene. I don't know about you in my notes because it's only about half an hour in. Where are you?
Ryan: I've kind of said everything.
Laura: Let's do it.
Ryan: Really?
Laura: Let's do it.
Ryan: The only thing I didn't really speak about was that Christian Bale has, like, a kind of Sheffield accent that goes on in the movie. And I was trying to think of, like, because he's relatively quite flawless in the film, I think. I don't think he puts a step wrong. But then I was like, what's an accent that I didn't like of his? And it might have been his Batman.
Laura: Oh, yeah. It's not his accent you didn't like. It was the Batman voice.
Ryan: Everything's pressed up against, like, you know, when you put on, um, a scuba mask and it stretches out your lips like you've had that. And he just. It's just, it just doesn't sound good. At least, like, they fix that with the other movies where it's just like, he's a multimillionaire. He just has a voice like, that makes sense.
Laura: Just watch the first series of the trip with Steve Coogan and Rob Briden, and then they do the Batman and the, um. Oh, my gosh.
Ryan: What? Bane.
Laura: Bane. What's wrong with me? The bane voice. Back and forth.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: And that's. It's perfect because it is very difficult to. Yeah.
Ryan: Um, yeah, she just put her mouth up to the microphone.
Laura: It's going to sound weird. Yeah.
Ryan: Let's get into this Peter scene, because.
Laura: Um, this is a great scene. Um, love it, and I love the story behind it. So this scene comes in at 35 minutes and 28 seconds, and it is classic Ewan McGregor, the star, the shining star of our podcast for the most part.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Um, and so do you remember why they were doing a show together? Right. Like, it was kind of like an outdoor concert festival.
Ryan: So it's kind of like, this is one of his first because this is one of. With the. This is before he meets Eddie Azard, who becomes his new management and obviously signs him up with that record deal and whatever. Um, and this is kind of his formative years, I guess.
Laura: Long hair, almost hippie phase, kind of.
Ryan: Yeah, this is like his space oddity years. There's another album, I think, before space Oddity, and I'm using David boy as a reference because plain as fucking, this is obviously what it's based on. Um, but, yeah, it's a little bit more folksy. It's kind of got those twangs and stuff to it. But people are just like, this is fucking shit. Because I think this is like the end of the 60s. So there's still the mods and rockers thing going on. Um, so his music kind of falls somewhere in between. Um, but yeah, he's booed off the stage and then obviously Kurt Wilde, who's Ewan McGregor, who's obviously iggy pop, and it's the stooges come on. And kind of do. Their new punk.
Laura: Isn'T going. His show is not going too well either. I don't think the audience particularly likes. Their band was called the rats.
Ryan: The rats, yes. Um, well, if anyone's familiar with any footage of, like, iggy pop on a stage, he's just wearing super tight, usually like, leather or patent trousers. I remember one show, like a late show and stuff, I remember seeing him on his trousers were like, uh, see through. He wasn't wearing any underwear.
Laura: Awesome.
Ryan: That's all you could see with his deck. And he's wearing like, a see through m. Ah, I got to get you.
Laura: To watch the greasy strangler.
Ryan: Right? Okay.
Laura: Just throwing down a greasy strangler reference with see through trousers.
Ryan: But yeah, obviously what he's doing, he's doing. Ewan's doing prime iggy pop kind of mannerisms and stuff, totally topless. He's covered himself in, like, oil and, uh, gold glitter.
Laura: And he uses the glitter as he's like fake masturbating and just talking glitter everywhere. He's jumping around. He has his hand down the back of his pants.
Ryan: Big fuck you energy.
Laura: And he's flipping off the audience the whole time.
Ryan: Yeah, he's reacting to the energy of the audience. And this scene itself, I mean, it's seen as like a big fuck you. But, yeah, he takes off his trousers and he kind of bends down and he shows them his asshole.
Laura: Yeah, he does. And he's just touching from behind asshole.
Ryan: And his balls bare asshole. And he's like, obviously because gravity exists, his balls and his dick start falling down between his legs.
Laura: And then he just jumps up and swings around. And he's not like helicoptering or anything, but he's just flipping that bad boy up and down, dancing and jumping up and down.
Ryan: He's there in all his glory, let's.
Laura: Kind of put it that way, for sure.
Ryan: And the audience fucking hate it. They absolutely hate it.
Laura: He's just standing there with his cock out, like giving everyone the finger. It's amazing. It's really fun.
Ryan: But this film is 2 hours long, but it's very much an audiovisual experience. So even during, effectively, what is Brian's first m meeting of, there's. The story is being told from the old management that Christian Bale has met in the hospital, and he's basically talking about, like, history. And intercut during this section, um, is a young Kurt getting taken to a mental hospital for electroshock therapy, supposedly, according to the narrator, uh, for servicing his brother. So you're kind of like, oh, this is kind of fucked up. And he's been doing things with his older brother. And it's intercut in such a way that when he goes to get shocked, a Molotov cocktail hits the stage. And I think one of the last shots of him, and I think it's a shot that recurs, is him basically covered in suit because obviously it was a fire that was obviously engulfing the stage at that point. Um, but during the course of this, there's just a lot going on in this one moment, he does put his trousers back on and, uh, he continues to perform as normal as they could during the circumstances.
Laura: So there was an interview and, um, Ewan, uh, McGregor was asked how far he thought he might go in the Kurt Wilde role because he is portraying a version of Iggy Pop. And he said he always had his cock out. He is very fond of his penis, I think. Yes, uh, I'm rather fond of mine too. It made sense to me that he'd always be whipping it out. There's only 400 extras there when I did it, Tod had written in the script that Kurt turns around and moons the audience. I'd seen Iggy Pop do this thing where he stood stock still, staring at the audience with his hands down the front of his trousers. And then he started to jig about and his trousers fell down as he was dancing. He goes, I thought I'd do that. But then I ended up pulling my willie out and sticking my head between my knees. I had no idea, uh, that that was going to happen. And the camera crew certainly didn't. I'll never forget their faces after the first time.
Ryan: Wow. I mean, he's playing the character, or at least the, uh, representation of that character to the best of his ability. Because I think, yeah, to me, that's just iggy pop behavior. That's completely iggy pop behavior.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, he said that he kind of got really into that rock star. You know, he just really went with it, did his research, took his penis out.
Ryan: He watched Iggy Pop on stage, and he was like, you know what? I'm just going to do that.
Laura: Yeah.
Ryan: It's as simple as.
Laura: Um, there's another. I'll just mention it as we'll go into the rest of it, but, uh, there's another penis scene, but it's not. Thank goodness for you and McGregor.
Ryan: But, yeah, it doesn't bear a mentioning for the most part.
Laura: I'm going to mention it anyway. It's about 50 minutes, almost 51 minutes. Um, it's after the new year's scene where Tony Collete's character, mandy kind of agrees to marry, uh, Brian Slate. And they have, it's kind of intercut back and forth between the new year's party where they're hanging out, and then he's singing to her under some trees. And it's this musical montage, but there's a sexy musical montage with a fireplace and just bodies and skin and lots of Tony Collette nudity. Not a lot of Jonathan Reese Myers, but there's a flash in there somewhere of his penis.
Ryan: But so brief, though.
Laura: It's just, yeah, uh, we haven't done any other Jonathan Reese Myers movies, but he also is kind of almost a Ewan McGregor level nudity superstar, in my opinion, because there's at least three other movies that I know of where he gets naked. So he just doesn't really do it for this. But, you know, I thought I'd mention it because we will eventually talk about him.
Ryan: Yeah, it's definitely probably worth it.
Laura: I wrote down that one, uh, of my favorite parts is this really long close up kiss between Ewan McGregor and Jonathan Reese Myers? It lasts for quite some time.
Ryan: It does? Yes.
Laura: Big fan. And glittery rooftop sex with Ewan McGregor and Christian Bale. Loved that as well.
Ryan: Yeah. The UFO comes over.
Laura: Yeah. And just drops glitter all over them.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Hot.
Ryan: Yeah. And basically, yeah. Uh, glam rock comes to a close.
Laura: Effectively, glam rock comes in an interview with e magazine.
I have more things that Ewan McGregor said.
Ryan: Cool.
Laura: He said, being naked is something that happens at either the end of the day for me, and if you're lucky, somewhere in the middle as well. And I don't understand why it's an issue. I don't take my clothes off in movies because I want to flash my body around. I take my clothes off from movies because I'm an actor.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: That's what he said.
Ryan: Yeah, no, that's fine. That's all right. Uh, I'm glad he's, like, open and honest and stuff about, um, a slippery slope when it's just like, well, I'm an actor, and you just start taking your clothes off, and people are like, whoa, hold on. What are you doing? Obi wan, please. But, uh. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it.
Laura: Yeah. I don't think that he would be fond of all the prosthetic penises that are out there. I don't think he would at all.
Ryan: I mean, I don't know if he'll take on those sorts of opportunities now.
Laura: Um, to get naked.
Ryan: Yeah. Probably not, because he doesn't probably need to now. Um, but also, I'm trying to think.
Laura: Of the last one that I know of where he got his penis out, and it was like, 13 years ago.
Ryan: But here's the thing.
Laura: So it's been a while.
Ryan: That quality of material is also not hitting his desk anymore, probably. And that's not to say that he's not getting offered good roles. I just don't think he's getting the material.
Laura: He's not getting the nude.
Ryan: No role. I think, as time goes on. Um, yeah, we've spoke about it before. I, um, think media itself is getting a little bit more prudish in one way or another. That's how I kind of feel about it. It's getting a little prudish.
Laura: It's an interesting push and pull between the prudishness, uh, of media and then just this other extreme push for the.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it's a really weird time right now because we are getting a lot of, I mean, the movies that have been coming out recently, obviously, the movie we just did before this one was Saltburn. And you have Barry Keoghan, who gets naked, and he is a naked man in this film.
Ryan: And that's a good example.
Laura: Right? Yeah, poor things as well.
Ryan: Um.
Laura: It'S another push for more kind of casual nudity that you would see. Um, I mean, that movie is insane. But, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot more of that stuff coming out recently.
Ryan: You have it on that end of the extreme. Then you also have these weird faky things, right. And stuff that's maybe not meant to be gross out, but it feels a bit gross out.
Laura: Any type of HBO show or euphoria, stuff like that, where you just have a guy that gets his penis out. Just let the guy take his penis out.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Because you can find actors that'll do it. I feel like a lot of times it's just offered to them, like, hey, you don't have to do this. As in, also, I'm going off on a tangent. I'll be fast. But, like, in men as well, where, uh, Roy Kinnear was going, he's like, yeah, I'll just take my penis out. No big deal. And then they're, no, no, we're going to make some fancy pants for you so you don't have to. And he's like, oh, okay.
So apparently this was quite a tough shoot. Um, I don't know if it was like a budgetary thing, but, uh, Ewan McGregor said they lost the whole lighting crew three weeks into the production. And he's like, I don't quite know why. Um, he's like, maybe they didn't like that we were filming a bunch of men fucking each other, um, up the ass on a rooftop in King's Cross.
Ryan: Okay.
Laura: Yeah. Um, it's a shame that I couldn't find the international cut of the film, uh, which is an extra five minutes. It's 123 minutes.
Ryan: Yeah. I wonder what would be that extra five minutes.
Laura: It's a little difficult to find this. I know this film is. I don't know if it's streaming for free anywhere right now, but you can rent it, at least at the time of this recording. But it's kind of a pain in the ass to find if you want to purchase it. I used to own it, and then we had to go and find it again because I didn't have sold a bunch of stuff because I moved out of the country. It makes sense. I had reasons.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Um, but, yeah.
Also was wondering why recently, which I did some research why we haven't seen Jonathan Reese Myers as.
Ryan: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Laura: Because he's a beautiful know, and I've seen him in some kind of weird, low budget films, uh, that are streaming on, like, tubi and stuff recently.
Ryan: The thing I remember him the most from was the Tudors, of course. Yeah. Where he's just fucking.
Laura: That made him a big, bright, shining star. The Tudors was fun.
Ryan: Yeah, Tudors was a good show.
Laura: Yeah. I guess he had a lot of problems with alcohol, and he probably still does because he's been arrested a few times. He's been detained mostly at airports. Um, and he drunk drive. Crashed his car in 2020.
Ryan: He drunk drove.
Laura: Drunk drove, crashed, drunk drove. Crashed his car while drunk droving.
Ryan: Okay. Uh, that's a shame. Feel better soon.
Laura: Yeah. I hope he's okay.
Ryan: Mhm.
Laura: Seems like an okay person anyway.
Ryan: Sound like he's okay. Sounds like he gets drunk at airports and says some horrible and just abuses flight staff. Yeah. That is fucking horrible.
Laura: That is his Christmas kink.
Ryan: Oh, dear.
Laura: Um, in terms of accolades, I think this film was nominated for quite a few things. It was nominated for best costume design at the Academy Awards. Um, and it won best costume design at the baftas, obviously.
Ryan: Yeah, it makes sense.
Laura: Sequins.
Ryan: Yeah. You can't go wrong with a bit of glitter in sequins.
Laura: There's, uh, one glitter you can go wrong with.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: Gary the GG. Um.
Ryan: What a monster. Yeah.
Laura: So is there anything else you want to add before we jump into the ratings?
Ryan: No.
Laura: Wow. Great.
Ryan: Let's go.
Laura: Let's go. Um.
Ryan: Let's fucking go.
Laura: So in terms of. I'll go first. Ah, visibility in context, I gave it a four and a half.
Ryan: Okay. Why are you docking it a half?
Laura: Uh, the only reason I gave it less is because I wanted more and I thought it should be there more.
Ryan: Oh, because you're greedy. Here's the thing. I just gave it five because they don't come any better than this, to be honest.
Laura: It's hard when you have things like, let's say shame, which is a top. Saltburn, which is a top, uh, rating for me. And then you have this one, which is great.
Ryan: Why don't you never say bad, lieutenant?
Laura: Because it's also not long enough. It's also not there long enough. And he's crying.
Ryan: So fucking good.
Laura: It is amazing. It is a really good one. You can maybe put that up there, but you don't have the screen time.
Ryan: No.
Laura: That you want.
Ryan: Yeah, I guess so.
Laura: Or having it multiple times.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: You know what I mean? Because there are multiple times in this film where these men are naked and you don't do it again. And you could have.
Ryan: Yeah.
Laura: And it wouldn't have been gratuitous at all. It would have made sense. Especially the amount of times you have breasts in this film.
Ryan: True.
Laura: And butts.
Ryan: Breasts and butts. I mean, he does snort coke off, uh, a black guy's arse.
Laura: Hell, yeah. I wish we would have seen more of that guy. Yeah, I wish he would have gotten up.
Ryan: Yeah, well, he had, like, a blonde afro as well. It was weird.
Laura: Beautiful butt, a beautiful body. Uh, I wanted to see more, so, yeah, I'm greedy. Four and a half.
Ryan: Okay, well, I gave it five.
Laura: Great.
Ryan: Yeah. I won't be so favorable towards the.
Laura: Film, but, yeah, you might not be. I gave the film four and it's maybe more nostalgia than anything else. And it's more because I think it's an important film and it is fun. It's too long.
Ryan: It is a little too long.
Laura: It's too long, but it is fun. It is sequiny, it's bright for the most part, and everyone is doing their best, and I think it's very fun. And just the fact that Ewan McGregor puts his head between his knees and shows everyone's booty a fun. It's a good movie for.
Ryan: Yeah, I think it's a very important film for the queer cinema. Um, just I feel like is a little too long. There's some slow bits in it. I do love the stylistic flourishes I have issues with. Just like, the comparisons to boy because it's obviously meant to be a story about boy. Um, but that doesn't detract too much. But, yeah, I would have gave it a four. It's probably closer to a three and a half, but I haven't rated it officially yet, so it might go towards more of a four. I'm a little bit more forgiving of it because there's a lot more stuff in it that I like than I dislike. Yeah, so there is that.
But, uh, Todd Haynes has better films in his filmography than this one.
Laura: I feel he does. But it's so comforting seeing these men that over so many years that we've come to be so familiar with and just seeing them as cute, fresh faced little boys with their cute little butts and having fun. And I think Jonathan Reese Myers was, like, 19 when they filmed this movie.
Ryan: Wow.
Laura: Christian Bale is like 23 or 24. Um, they're all young, kind of at the start of their careers. And everyone's, ah, Tony Collette, I guess.
Ryan: Like, yeah, varying because Ewan McGregor's already taken off at this.
Laura: Yeah, he was shooting for the stars after train spotting.
Ryan: Yeah. So he was doing the things he wanted because he was already going to get the big bucks anyway. Obviously Christian pale, he's been acting since he was born, so it doesn't really matter. Um, yeah, no, I do like that. Um, but the thing is, I think the film is important as well because it's one of the most accessible films of queer cinema. I feel like. I feel like, um, you can feel a little bit intimidated by examples, like specific examples of queer cinema where you're not able to kind of, I guess, just find that inroad so that you can relate to it and kind of be engaged in the story and stuff like that. Um, so at least with this, I feel like it's relatively quite well grounded, so you can just access it quite easily.
Laura: I wish that maybe people were more. I mean, it's another reason we do this podcast, were more accepting of male nudity in cinema. Because I think that this film might be quite important just of the story that it's telling. Kind of like acceptance of yourself and kind of going back through your past and rediscovering who you are. Would be nice for people to see young people who maybe are in that kind of same state figuring out who you are. And I think that sometimes discovering that and having the nudity in it maybe isn't as. Maybe might not make it as accessible as it could have been.
Ryan: Yeah, I think this is one of the few kind of saving graces of. Because we covered doom generation, we covered short bus. I don't think they are particularly accessible. Doom generation, for the longest time was this completely shreddy, the mutilated cut that just kind of existed on VHS.
Laura: And no one was ever passed around from dorm room to dorm room.
Ryan: And it's kind of like, oh, here's this dirty little secret. And it's this product and it has a lot more to say about America and about gay culture and heterosexual culture and all these sorts of things that I think people just kind of overlook and they kind of just take everything on face value. And certainly, obviously, shortbus short bus is a quite extreme example, but it's one of the most sex positive films that I think has ever been made. So the accessibility of velvet Goldmine is that it has this veneer of like, we're focusing on music, rock, glam rock, the period, this culture, um, the like things that certainly me from being in the UK is something I can personally relate to because none of that stuff ever bothered me. And I was into that music ever since I was a certainly, you know, this idea of sexual exploration and finding, uh, yourself a coming of age concept, that sort of thing. So for me, because of the veneer that velvet goldmine has inherently, within its core, is obviously very strong themes of coming of age and discovering yourself and, uh, discovering your own sexuality and that fluidity within gender and all that sort of thing, I think, is incredibly important, I think is a very good example of kind of a staple of the queer cinema movement. So that opens the door for you to watch more films from that movement. And I think Tod Haynes is just a good filmmaker because Carol is also a film, um, about two gay women who find themselves, and that's a very popular film and people can access that and they can see it. And it's another thing that you're able to open the doors to those kind of themes and those ideas. So that's kind of how I see the importance of this film in particular.
Laura: Yeah. And this one has definitely gained a cult following, as it should. Um, and I wish it was streaming more available to people to watch.
Ryan: Yeah. Because, I mean, if you like this one, I'd be like, go see. Go watch that movie. Because they've got very similar. Hedwig is probably maybe a better film, but they've got very similar ideas going on it. And they're also made by gay filmmakers. It's a really good one to kind of go through. I think that as much as I think there's some flaws in this film that we've kind of highlighted, I think it's still important for, uh, the progression of slightly, uh, more. Well, progression. The accessibility of more progressive forms of media and stories and filmmaking.
Laura: There you go.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Excellent.
Well, there we are. The new year. First one of the new year.
Ryan: Yes.
Laura: Off to a good start, I hope. I liked it.
Ryan: I did like it. The only other thing I had was an issue was with the double Miramax logo. We got to see the Miramax logo twice. And this film, like self played, it's one of those dvds, the minute you put it in, it just starts playing. So we got to see the Miramax logo twice.
Laura: Yeah, we need a better release. There was a Blu ray release back in 2011, which is also hard to find. So, uh, we'll be on the hunt for. Hopefully they'll do a better one with all the features that we can access. How lovely coming to you from the sombrero bar.
Ryan: Yay.
Laura: I have been Laura Ryan. Happy New Year. Here we go. Hooray.
Ryan: Hooray.
Laura: This is a New Year's movie. You know why? Because New year's happens in the film.
Ryan: Excellent.
Laura: Officially a New Year's film. Thank you, Tod Haynes.